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Old 09-11-2013   #1
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Default Undercover Cops in Visiting team jerseys

In Seattle, undercover cops will be wearing San Francisco 49er jerseys at this weekends game to catch unruly fans.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...4193--nfl.html
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Old 09-11-2013   #2
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Default Re: Undercover Cops in Visiting team jerseys

I don't get why they aren't wearing Seahawks jerseys, and stopping any trouble that they encounter?

Trying to entice people into committing offenses?
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Old 09-11-2013   #3
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Default Re: Undercover Cops in Visiting team jerseys

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Originally Posted by mattieuk View Post
I don't get why they aren't wearing Seahawks jerseys, and stopping any trouble that they encounter?

Trying to entice people into committing offenses?
I don't know. I think I differ a bit on this particular issue.

Sounds like a plan to me. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the notion that wearing the opposing team's jersey is 'enticing people to commit offenses.'

If a Seahawk fan commits an offense against a person for being a fan of the visiting team his/her ass needs to go to jail...period. I'd call it a good deterrent for making this tactic public knowledge as well as a way to weed out the bad roots.

As long as things like this are happening I give kudos the Seattle Police Dept.

See this link for an update on Bryan Stow, SF Giants fan beaten outside of Dodger Stadium.
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Old 09-11-2013   #4
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Default Re: Undercover Cops in Visiting team jerseys

I'm intrigued by this. I have attended road Texans games in several NFL stadiums as well as NFL games where the Texans weren't playing, and the fan behavior I've observed has truly gotten worse just about everywhere. For example: no way I would bring my young daughters to an NFL game in Miami after what I saw there during several games. (Don't even bring up Hurricane fans at their games. The Orange Bowl was pretty much an open-air drunk tank.)

There is absolutely no doubt that folks in non-home colors can be lightning rods. Some people, and they're usually drunk people, can't let a visiting fan off without taking it too far. if this plan helps them detect and deter the behavior (especially if it rises to the level of a crime), I have no problem with it, as long as the police are passively present and not in a role to entice.

Good news here is that a stadium is a different environment than a traffic stop or other arrest environment. Plenty of witnesses all around should keep it above board.
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Old 09-11-2013   #5
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Default Re: Undercover Cops in Visiting team jerseys

Great now bill is gonna dress up as a stripper pole for Halloween.

How about dressing up as cops in order to make sure home fans don't get out of hand with visiting fans?
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Old 09-11-2013   #6
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Default Re: Undercover Cops in Visiting team jerseys

I just paid $100 a ticket and $35 to park? $8 beers? $15 burger? I should be able to be as unruley as I wanna be.

This is why I won't pay for a ticket and watch at home.
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Old 09-12-2013   #7
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Default Re: Undercover Cops in Visiting team jerseys

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
I just paid $100 a ticket and $35 to park? $8 beers? $15 burger? I should be able to be as unruley as I wanna be.

This is why I won't pay for a ticket and watch at home.
You're kidding, I hope.
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Old 09-12-2013   #8
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Default Re: Undercover Cops in Visiting team jerseys

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
I just paid $100 a ticket and $35 to park? $8 beers? $15 burger? I should be able to be as unruley as I wanna be.

This is why I won't pay for a ticket and watch at home.
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Old 09-12-2013   #9
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Default Re: Undercover Cops in Visiting team jerseys

I have been to a few stadiums (Cleveland, Balt, Hou, Buf) and a bunch of games and every fight or confrontation (except for one) has been between the same team's fans. Two Cleveland fans got into a fight after one of them insulted Colt McCoy, they were more pissed at thier team's poor preformance than with me rooting for an away team.

Only fight I saw between opposing fans was at a Buffalo Sabres vs NY Rangers NHL game. The stadium was about 50/50 Buf/NYR. A young drunk Buf fan tried to start a fight with an older NY fan as the game was letting out. All the Sabres fans moved away from the drunk Buf fan, he was then swarmed by NYR fans.
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Old 09-12-2013   #10
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Sounds like a great idea some San Francisco fans that are cops in Seattle came up with to watch a free game...

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Old 09-12-2013   #11
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Default Re: Undercover Cops in Visiting team jerseys

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Originally Posted by chicagotexan2 View Post
Great now bill is gonna dress up as a stripper pole for Halloween.

How about dressing up as cops in order to make sure home fans don't get out of hand with visiting fans?


You don't see the glaring problem with your plan? Idiots see cop, pull back I'm the asshatery and when the cop leaves they crank it back up
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Old 09-12-2013   #12
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Default Re: Undercover Cops in Visiting team jerseys

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
I just paid $100 a ticket and $35 to park? $8 beers? $15 burger? I should be able to be as unruley as I wanna be.

This is why I won't pay for a ticket and watch at home.
Somebody does not read the terms and conditions printed on tickets...

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Fans are advised that the following behaviors will not be tolerated and to utilize the hotline and text line numbers if you notice the following behaviors:

o Behavior that is unruly, disruptive or illegal in nature
o Intoxication or other signs of alcohol or substance impairment that results in irresponsible behavior
o Foul or abusive language or obscene gestures
o Interference with the progress of the game (including throwing objects on the field)
o Failing to follow instructions of stadium personnel
o Verbal or physical harassment of opposing team fans

Any fan acting in a disruptive manner will be asked to leave immediately.

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Old 09-12-2013   #13
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Default Re: Undercover Cops in Visiting team jerseys

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Originally Posted by Showtime100 View Post
I don't know. I think I differ a bit on this particular issue.

Sounds like a plan to me. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the notion that wearing the opposing team's jersey is 'enticing people to commit offenses.'

If a Seahawk fan commits an offense against a person for being a fan of the visiting team his/her ass needs to go to jail...period. I'd call it a good deterrent for making this tactic public knowledge as well as a way to weed out the bad roots.

As long as things like this are happening I give kudos the Seattle Police Dept.

See this link for an update on Bryan Stow, SF Giants fan beaten outside of Dodger Stadium.
I completely get you, about wearing the opposition's jersey not being a green light for abusive behavior - however I do see it as a slippery slope. If the cops are willing to disguise themselves as ordinary members of the public, then want to get more of an edge, then they wear the home team's jerseys. Then they want to get more of an edge, then they wear the away team's jerseys. They they want to get more of an edge - do they start acting obnoxiously, in the hope that anyone who might be slightly acrimonious towards an obnoxious away fan has the best chance of committing an offense?

The fan code of conduct stated below contains such a wide range of things, that if the cops were feeling so inclined, they could create ways to get people out of the stadium, which fall short of any criminality.

If this is as big of an issue league-wide, then the NFL should be looking into designated away fan areas, like soccer teams do worldwide, where the instance of opposition fans traveling to games is more prevalent. The Washington Huskies - Oregon State Beavers game I went to at Centurylink in Seattle was done very nicely - Oregon State had a huge section of traveling fans, and the back and forth banter between the fans was very appropriate, and added to the atmosphere. However the issue here is that if all seats for a visiting fans section cannot be sold, then you are likely going to have empty seats, which probably doesn't fit the business interests of the ownership.

If I'm going to a home game for my team, and a guy is sitting right behind be shouting encouragement to the other team's players and whooping and hollering whilst my team are on offense, I'm probably not going to enjoy the game as much as I would if they weren't there. I'm not going to start trying to fistfight the guy though, but having that presence there may well diminish my experience, and if that presence is only there because the guy is an undercover cop, I'm going to be even more pissed.
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Old 09-12-2013   #14
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Default Re: Undercover Cops in Visiting team jerseys

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Originally Posted by mattieuk View Post
I completely get you, about wearing the opposition's jersey not being a green light for abusive behavior - however I do see it as a slippery slope. If the cops are willing to disguise themselves as ordinary members of the public, then want to get more of an edge, then they wear the home team's jerseys. Then they want to get more of an edge, then they wear the away team's jerseys. They they want to get more of an edge - do they start acting obnoxiously, in the hope that anyone who might be slightly acrimonious towards an obnoxious away fan has the best chance of committing an offense?

The fan code of conduct stated below contains such a wide range of things, that if the cops were feeling so inclined, they could create ways to get people out of the stadium, which fall short of any criminality.

If this is as big of an issue league-wide, then the NFL should be looking into designated away fan areas, like soccer teams do worldwide, where the instance of opposition fans traveling to games is more prevalent. The Washington Huskies - Oregon State Beavers game I went to at Centurylink in Seattle was done very nicely - Oregon State had a huge section of traveling fans, and the back and forth banter between the fans was very appropriate, and added to the atmosphere. However the issue here is that if all seats for a visiting fans section cannot be sold, then you are likely going to have empty seats, which probably doesn't fit the business interests of the ownership.

If I'm going to a home game for my team, and a guy is sitting right behind be shouting encouragement to the other team's players and whooping and hollering whilst my team are on offense, I'm probably not going to enjoy the game as much as I would if they weren't there. I'm not going to start trying to fistfight the guy though, but having that presence there may well diminish my experience, and if that presence is only there because the guy is an undercover cop, I'm going to be even more pissed.
I agree completely. I really hadn't thought about the behavior of the undercover cops. I just assumed they would go in their SF jerseys and let trouble find them. But if they go in and try to bait a fan by acting like jerks, then I would definitely have a problem.

My opinion in the above post remains assuming they simply go to the game and act like a peaceful fan looking to enjoy the game and that includes rooting for the Niners after a good play. Again, however, if they go in looking to passively instigate trouble with the thinking they will nab anyone who takes exception to their contrived behavior, well, they themselves should give a long hard at the fairness of their tactics. I say "fairness" for lack of a better word.

I am now interested to see how this shakes out in newspaper articles after the fact.
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Old 09-12-2013   #15
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Default Re: Undercover Cops in Visiting team jerseys

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
I just paid $100 a ticket and $35 to park? $8 beers? $15 burger? I should be able to be as unruley as I wanna be.

This is why I won't pay for a ticket and watch at home.
Ya know I don't remember posting this but I completely agree with myself.

All the money that is spent on watching A game we shouldn't have hired security itching to throw us out of the stadium.

When did the NFL forget that we are the customer?

Wait, I remember, football is a gentleman's game. Tea and crumpets and sipping our tea with milk and our pinky stuck out.
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Old 09-12-2013   #16
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Default Re: Undercover Cops in Visiting team jerseys

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
Ya know I don't remember posting this but I completely agree with myself.

All the money that is spent on watching A game we shouldn't have hired security itching to throw us out of the stadium.

When did the NFL forget that we are the customer?

Wait, I remember, football is a gentleman's game. Tea and crumpets and sipping our tea with milk and our pinky stuck out.
So, you get suckered into way-overpaying everything you purchased that day and you feel that gives you the right to be "as unruly as I wanna be"?

I disagree. It gives you the right to decide not to pay those prices again, but it does not give you the right to take your misplaced anger out on me or anyone else.
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Old 09-12-2013   #17
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Default Re: Undercover Cops in Visiting team jerseys

Hey, maybe they'll get beat up by Bellevue cops again.
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Old 09-12-2013   #18
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Default Re: Undercover Cops in Visiting team jerseys

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So, you get suckered into way-overpaying everything you purchased that day and you feel that gives you the right to be "as unruly as I wanna be"?

I disagree. It gives you the right to decide not to pay those prices again, but it does not give you the right to take your misplaced anger out on me or anyone else.
Define unruly?

Should I be able to get into someones face and threaten their well being? No. Should I be able to go tell that Titan fan to go kick rocks? Absolutely.

I don't need some overzealous rent-a-cop who's having a bad day to ruin my experience b/c he feels that I am being "unruly." Especially if that rent-a-cop turns out to be a fan of the other team.
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Old 09-12-2013   #19
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I agree completely. I really hadn't thought about the behavior of the undercover cops. I just assumed they would go in their SF jerseys and let trouble find them. But if they go in and try to bait a fan by acting like jerks, then I would definitely have a problem.

My opinion in the above post remains assuming they simply go to the game and act like a peaceful fan looking to enjoy the game and that includes rooting for the Niners after a good play. Again, however, if they go in looking to passively instigate trouble with the thinking they will nab anyone who takes exception to their contrived behavior, well, they themselves should give a long hard at the fairness of their tactics. I say "fairness" for lack of a better word.

I am now interested to see how this shakes out in newspaper articles after the fact.
I know your initial post was on the assumption that the cops are going to go, sit on their hands, and only react if an issue they had no role in materializes. My perspective is how those cops are going to react in that situation. I could see in a hypothetical situation, that an officer, who was detailed to a big football game with a ton of expectation that they are going to keep the fan's behavior family friendly might want to show his/her superiors that he/she was doing her job by bringing in someone, in hope that they get recognition for policing such a such profile event (and perhaps being selected for such duties again).

It isn't that I have no faith in the cops per se, but of the actions of a rational person who is put in that situation, with the expectation of their superiors upon them. From a English background, when we had large problems with football hooligans, there were many stories at the time of the police masquerading as fans, and participating in, and sometimes causing situations to get others to commit criminal offenses.

We will see how it goes, as you say - although from my standpoint it is more of a long term slippery slope. Hopefully everyone there behaves and the visiting fans are respectful of the situation, and the atmosphere is as welcoming as it has been to me on my multiple visits to the city.
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Old 09-12-2013   #20
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Default Re: Undercover Cops in Visiting team jerseys

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
Define unruly?

Should I be able to get into someones face and threaten their well being? No. Should I be able to go tell that Titan fan to go kick rocks? Absolutely.

I don't need some overzealous rent-a-cop who's having a bad day to ruin my experience b/c he feels that I am being "unruly." Especially if that rent-a-cop turns out to be a fan of the other team.


Get serious mr badass. They wouldn't be rent a cops and likely they wouldn't be fans of random visiting teams. You buying a ticket doesn't entitle you to act as you wish. I think it's time to grow up a bit
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