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Old 09-11-2013   #21
nero THE zero
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Default Re: Oops, Personal Foul on FG was bad call

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
I agree with everything accept the bolded.

AJ was clearly out of bounds - he left his feet to make the catch and his elbow was the first thing to come down .... in the white.
Can't comprehend how so many people, including the refs, saw it this way.

This was blatantly obvious to me (from TC's twitter feed):
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Old 09-11-2013   #22
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Default Re: Oops, Personal Foul on FG was bad call

We've been on the wrong end of so many bad calls, I couldn't really care less about this one or how the Charger fans feel (no disrespect to them)... it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
At the time the "bad call" was made there was I believe 14:52 left in the fourth quarter/game. That's relevant because for the remainder of that time San Diego did jack-**** on offense and precious little on defense. That is the mark of a team that isn't ready to overcome adversity. We know exactly what that looks like because we saw it for quite a few years (and still see it from time to time depending on the situation).

The Chargers are putting together something there. They have a lot of talent but they weren't able to put that bad call behind them and get on with finishing the Texans off. Every game there are bad calls and every team faces them. If your team can't put them out of their collective minds and maintain their focus then they lose. It's almost a constant in the NFL.
Well... if I were so eloquent ^^this^^ is what I would have said.

It's part of the game. If they can't get past a bad call, they don't deserve to win anyway.
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Old 09-11-2013   #23
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Default Re: Oops, Personal Foul on FG was bad call

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Originally Posted by gwallaia View Post
None of them however mention the obvious false start they got away with on that long pass play.
The one that really bugged me was the false start they called on us, that was the very definition of encroachment. I know we got one, but there was another that turned a 3rd & 3 into a 3rd & 8 (or something like that). The defensive lineman jumped into the neutral zone, our player flinched & they called false start.

If that defender is in the neutral zone when our guy flinched, that's on them, not us. They should have given us the first down.

But Schaub manned up & we got it anyway. So, no big deal. That's what good teams do when they've bad calls go against them.
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Old 09-11-2013   #24
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Default Re: Oops, Personal Foul on FG was bad call

Well right after that, Rivers threw a pick 6. They had their chance to overcome and didn't. These type of things have happened to us and no one cried so no tears are forming in my eyes.
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Old 09-11-2013   #25
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Default Re: Oops, Personal Foul on FG was bad call

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Originally Posted by nero THE zero View Post
Can't comprehend how so many people, including the refs, saw it this way.

This was blatantly obvious to me (from TC's twitter feed):
The explanation was that at the point in the photo, Andre hadn't gained control, and the ball was still moving.

If that's true, the photo proves/disproves nothing, and I can't find any video of that particular play.
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Old 09-11-2013   #26
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Default Re: Oops, Personal Foul on FG was bad call

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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
The explanation was that at the point in the photo, Andre hadn't gained control, and the ball was still moving.

If that's true, the photo proves/disproves nothing, and I can't find any video of that particular play.
That's what I saw when I watched the video. At the instant this photo captured the ball had just - and I mean JUST - gotten to A.J.'s hands/body. The way the rules are now regarding possession of a reception, you have to gain control and then establish yourself on the field of play. A.J. gained control during his dive - which he's kinda just starting at this moment. He gained control mid-dive. Now he has to establish himself in bounds. Unfortunately, he landed elbow first. And that elbow was out of bounds.

Hate to say it, but they got it right.
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Old 09-11-2013   #27
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Default Re: Oops, Personal Foul on FG was bad call

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
The one that really bugged me was the false start they called on us, that was the very definition of encroachment. I know we got one, but there was another that turned a 3rd & 3 into a 3rd & 8 (or something like that). The defensive lineman jumped into the neutral zone, our player flinched & they called false start.

If that defender is in the neutral zone when our guy flinched, that's on them, not us. They should have given us the first down.

But Schaub manned up & we got it anyway. So, no big deal. That's what good teams do when they've bad calls go against them.
Yeah, they're getting really ticky-tack on those. If the O-Lineman doesn't flinch almost instantly, then it's on him.
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Old 09-11-2013   #28
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Default Re: Oops, Personal Foul on FG was bad call

JJ was being held so much that this even things out. We saw dude with his entire arm wrapped around JJ's neck during a couple of plays, but nothing from the refs.

I honestly think the Texans would have won this game without the penalty. They were clearly gaining momentum, and the Chargers were completely ineffective by that point. Nothing makes me think this penalty was any kind of turning point. The better team won.
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Old 09-11-2013   #29
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Default Re: Oops, Personal Foul on FG was bad call

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
JJ was being held so much that this even things out. We saw dude with his entire arm wrapped around JJ's neck during a couple of plays, but nothing from the refs.

I honestly think the Texans would have won this game without the penalty. They were clearly gaining momentum, and the Chargers were completely ineffective by that point. Nothing makes me think this penalty was any kind of turning point. The better team won.
Yup the call helped but the momentum was clearly going in the texans direction. Either way the chargers got way too many non calls the helped them. Houston won SD lost the end
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Old 09-11-2013   #30
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Default Re: Oops, Personal Foul on FG was bad call

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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
The explanation was that at the point in the photo, Andre hadn't gained control, and the ball was still moving.

If that's true, the photo proves/disproves nothing, and I can't find any video of that particular play.
I've watched a ton of plays where receivers catch the ball and pull it in when going out of bounds. But at the time the 2 feet touched, the ball was still above their shoulders. I still think the play was close enough not to reverse what was called on the field.
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Old 09-11-2013   #31
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Default Re: Oops, Personal Foul on FG was bad call

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
That's what I saw when I watched the video. At the instant this photo captured the ball had just - and I mean JUST - gotten to A.J.'s hands/body. The way the rules are now regarding possession of a reception, you have to gain control and then establish yourself on the field of play. A.J. gained control during his dive - which he's kinda just starting at this moment. He gained control mid-dive. Now he has to establish himself in bounds. Unfortunately, he landed elbow first. And that elbow was out of bounds.

Hate to say it, but they got it right.
Well then, that Jordy Nelson catch was a non-catch. Every sideline toe-tap catch ever made is not a catch. AJ did his toe-tap a yard into the field of play. That ball was not moving around at all.
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Old 09-11-2013   #32
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Default Re: Oops, Personal Foul on FG was bad call

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Well then, that Jordy Nelson catch was a non-catch. Every sideline toe-tap catch ever made is not a catch. AJ did his toe-tap a yard into the field of play. That ball was not moving around at all.
I agree completely. I was surprised they overturned the call, because he clearly had two feet down when he caught it. Nothing in the replay was conclusive enough to overturn, IMO, but obviously, officials disagree.
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Old 09-11-2013   #33
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Default Re: Oops, Personal Foul on FG was bad call

How can the league say it was an incorrect call when this particular penalty is considered a judgment call from the official on the field? I thought the penalty was kinda weak, but if this ref thought the knee to Weeks' head was worthy of the call then so be it. Right? Or am I off-base here?
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Old 09-11-2013   #34
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Default Re: Oops, Personal Foul on FG was bad call

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Chargers got away with:

An illegal pick on a TD (flag was picked up after Rivers yelled at them)
Several holds and hands to the face of JJ Watt
Delay of game by 3 seconds
At least one false start
AJ's catch that was ruled out of bounds

I'd say it was even.
Not to mention that BLADANT pass interference call where a DB didn't even pretend to turn to face Schaub when he grabbed AJ.
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Old 09-11-2013   #35
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Default Re: Oops, Personal Foul on FG was bad call

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Well then, that Jordy Nelson catch was a non-catch. Every sideline toe-tap catch ever made is not a catch. AJ did his toe-tap a yard into the field of play. That ball was not moving around at all.
The catches weren't similar.

Nelson caught the ball with two feet in while he was stretched over the out of bounds line. He clearly had possession. With two feet in bounds.

I need to see Andre's catch again, but that still photo proves nothing.

When I saw it during the game it looked incomplete, but like I said I'd be willing to look at it again.

The reason it looked incomplete is because he dove to make the catch. You have to establish possession/gain control while establishing yourself in bounds and maintain possession when hitting the ground.


Jordy Nelson clearly had control of the pass with two feet in bounds.

Andre didn't establish control until he was in mid air.
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Old 09-11-2013   #36
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Default Re: Oops, Personal Foul on FG was bad call

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Jordy Nelson clearly had control of the pass with two feet in bounds.
Nelson is still required to maintain possession when he hits the ground, which he did. If Nelson has control and 2 feet in, the catch is not complete until he hits the ground. If he catches the ball, has control, taps both feet in, then hits the ground and the ball pops out, it's an incomplete pass.

AJ's play was too close to call, therefore not enough to overturn, IMO. Very fine line between him having control and his feet leaving the ground.
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Old 09-11-2013   #37
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Default Re: Oops, Personal Foul on FG was bad call

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Big deal. We drive down the field and score a TD to win at the end of the game instead of settling for a field goal. Same score.
There is one difference. If we're driving for a TD on our final possession, we try to preserve the clock instead of running it down. If we score we probably give them back the ball with enough time to try driving for a TD or FG.
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Old 09-11-2013   #38
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Default Re: Oops, Personal Foul on FG was bad call

The penalty call was definitely the WRONG call. With the present rules, these are the things that will lead to a penalty against the defense involving the long snapper.

During field goal and extra point attempts, defenders cannot line up directly across from the long snapper.

Long snappers on field goals and extra points are also considered defenseless players who receive all the protections for defenseless players. The snapper cannot be hit in the head while he’s in the process of snapping the ball. Once he starts actively blocking, he is no longer considered defenseless.


The defender did not line up directly over Weeks. And, once the ball was snapped, Weeks attempted to block his man down low at which he was met by the body of the defender going over him, never being hit in the head, let alone with a helmet.

There should have been no penalty.
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Old 09-11-2013   #39
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Default Re: Oops, Personal Foul on FG was bad call

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The penalty call was definitely the WRONG call. With the present rules, these are the things that will lead to a penalty against the defense involving the long snapper.

During field goal and extra point attempts, defenders cannot line up directly across from the long snapper.

Long snappers on field goals and extra points are also considered defenseless players who receive all the protections for defenseless players. The snapper cannot be hit in the head while he’s in the process of snapping the ball. Once he starts actively blocking, he is no longer considered defenseless.


The defender did not line up directly over Weeks. And, once the ball was snapped, Weeks attempted to block his man down low at which he was met by the body of the defender going over him, never being hit in the head, let alone with a helmet.

There should have been no penalty.
DB, the new rule states that not only can someone not line-up head over the snapper, BUT can not hit the center as he is deemed "defenseless".

It may have been a ticky-tack call, but by the letter of the law, I believe it was a correct call.
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Old 09-11-2013   #40
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Default Re: Oops, Personal Foul on FG was bad call

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DB, the new rule states that not only can someone not line-up head over the snapper, BUT can not hit the center as he is deemed "defenseless".

It may have been a ticky-tack call, but by the letter of the law, I believe it was a correct call.
The rule is as stated in my post. He was no longer considered a defenseless player at the time that he was hit.....he had already moved forward and assumed a blocking maneuver. He was fair game.
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