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Old 05-13-2014   #121
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Default Re: Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

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McNair ain't taking Winston. He wants choir boys, not probable rapists.
Agreed. No illiterate rapists on the Texans please ...
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Old 05-13-2014   #122
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Default Re: Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

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You are better than this, Texian. You know not to be a boxscore watcher.
You've confused me with someone else, I check the player production every week during the season. If you're a .300 hitter you're a .300 hitter. If you can only throw .60% completions, 1 1/2 TDs for every INT, your QB rating will say you're average and ordinary.
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Old 05-13-2014   #123
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Default Re: Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

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Agreed. No illiterate rapists on the Texans please ...
Agreed.



Mans got to be able to read the play book.
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Old 05-13-2014   #124
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Default Re: Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

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You've confused me with someone else, I check the player production every week during the season. If you're a .300 hitter you're a .300 hitter. If you can only throw .60% completions, 1 1/2 TDs for every INT, your QB rating will say you're average and ordinary.
So you don't take quality of competition into account? Quality of teammates? Scheme-type? Blown assignments?

In short, do you watch games, or do you just look at the boxscores and read what other people say?
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Old 05-13-2014   #125
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Default Re: Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

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So you don't take quality of competition into account? Quality of teammates? Scheme-type? Blown assignments?

In short, do you watch games, or do you just look at the boxscores and read what other people say?
Oh I do all of the above. That's why I was able able to differentiate and determine Bortles as the only franchise QB in this draft instead of hopping on the Teddy Bridgewater train like so many others. It's the learned ability to think for one's self instead of falling in with the collective group or letting others make up your mind for you. Some folks know how to use use stats and production and some folks don't and will quickly dismiss them as a result. Good luck, I'm sure you're smart enough to figure it out.
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Old 05-13-2014   #126
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Default Re: Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

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Oh I do all of the above. That's why I was able able to differentiate and determine Bortles as the only franchise QB in this draft instead of hopping on the Teddy Bridgewater train like so many others. It's the learned ability to think for one's self instead of falling in with the collective group or letting others make up your mind for you. Some folks know how to use use stats and production and some folks don't and will quickly dismiss them as a result. Good luck, I'm sure you're smart enough to figure it out.
1) It is much too early to be patting yourself on the back for Bortles. Yeah, he was the first QB picked, but so was Gabbert once.

2) I make my own decisions. I thought TB was better than BB because I thought so, not because others did. Furthermore, by the end,I thought Robinson should have been the pick, not TB.
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Old 05-13-2014   #127
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Default Re: Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

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1) It is much too early to be patting yourself on the back for Bortles. Yeah, he was the first QB picked, but so was Gabbert once.

2) I make my own decisions. I thought TB was better than BB because I thought so, not because others did. Furthermore, by the end,I thought Robinson should have been the pick, not TB.
1. It might have be to early for you but not for me. That's how sure and confident I am of my evaluation. Blaine Gabbert was never the first QB drafted. He was #3 behind Newton and Locker. Like I have tried to explain before, the problem with Gabbert being drafted in the 1st RD has absolutely nothing to do with Gabbert. The problem lies entirely with Jack Del Rio and his very poor evaluation of Gabbert. There was absolutely nothing in Gabbert's college body of work that said, "draft me with the 10th pick in the draft or even the first rd for that matter."

2. Keep digging deeper. If you thought TB was the best QB in this draft you're not digging deep enough. As to your earlier point, everything in his stats and production agree with your decision. When you dig a little deeper, that's not so much the case. Unfortunately, as was the case with so many, Teddy fans didn't want to hear the bad music. They preferred to not listen or just come up with excuses why the music was bad. During the season I noted that TB's 30+ passes had a high trajectory and need a lot of air underneath and his 10-20 yard passes outside the hashes tended to lose their zip. I said at the time that many of those passes would be INTs in the NFL. His Pro Day confirmed both suspicions.

3. I keep saying this time and again, you must find out how a QB performs when the game is on the line and under pressure. Often you have to dig deep to find this information. It's often found in The Box Scores and the drive charts. The info is there if you're willing to do the homework. If a QB has never delivered with a game on the line, take him off your board or move him to day 3. David and Derek Carr and Gabbert never delivered with game on the line. Quinn and Barkley are a few others. They've never been a part of game winning drive. Some have had the negative experience of a failed game winning drive.
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Old 05-13-2014   #128
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Default Re: Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

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1. It might have be to early for you but not for me. That's how sure and confident I am of my evaluation. Blaine Gabbert was never the first QB drafted. He was #3 behind Newton and Locker. Like I have tried to explain before, the problem with Gabbert being drafted in the 1st RD has absolutely nothing to do with Gabbert. The problem lies entirely with Jack Del Rio and his very poor evaluation of Gabbert. There was absolutely nothing in Gabbert's college body of work that said, "draft me with the 10th pick in the draft or even the first rd for that matter."

2. Keep digging deeper. If you thought TB was the best QB in this draft you're not digging deep enough. As to your earlier point, everything in his stats and production agree with your decision. When you dig a little deeper, that's not so much the case. Unfortunately, as was the case with so many, Teddy fans didn't want to hear the bad music. They preferred to not listen or just come up with excuses why the music was bad. During the season I noted that TB's 30+ passes had a high trajectory and need a lot of air underneath and his 10-20 yard passes outside the hashes tended to lose their zip. I said at the time that many of those passes would be INTs in the NFL. His Pro Day confirmed both suspicions.

3. I keep saying this time and again, you must find out how a QB performs when the game is on the line and under pressure. Often you have to dig deep to find this information. It's often found in The Box Scores and the drive charts. The info is there if you're willing to do the homework. If a QB has never delivered with a game on the line, take him off your board or move him to day 3. David and Derek Carr and Gabbert never delivered with game on the line. Quinn and Barkley are a few others. They've never been a part of game winning drive. Some have had the negative experience of a failed game winning drive.
You are right about Gabbert, that was my mistake.

As for Bridgewater bit- we will see in time. I have been wrong before, and I will be wrong many times in the future, I am sure. But right now, my guess is that TB will be the better QB.

I think your "game on the line" scouting to be suspect. But hey, everyone does things differently.
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Old 05-13-2014   #129
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Default Re: Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

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Originally Posted by rmartin65 View Post
As for Bridgewater bit- we will see in time. I have been wrong before, and I will be wrong many times in the future, I am sure. But right now, my guess is that TB will be the better QB.
Most important here is to learn from your mistakes, I made my share. I have developed my eval process from mistakes I made. If TB turns out to be a just an average QB or less, will you know why?

TB could be a good QB in WCO as a game manager w/ a game that takes advantages of his strengths and avoids his weaknesses.

If you eliminate all QBs who have not played under pressure or have never produced in pressure situations or game winning drives you can eliminate a lot of not so good QBs. I now you think it suspect but for the future, keep an eye on it.

Last edited by Texian; 05-13-2014 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 05-17-2014   #130
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Default Re: Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

He'sslike Mariota the most.
As I mentioned last year, his stock was rising sharply the more the scouts and "semi" scouts learned more about him.
Granted, he plays in a spread system so we don't know for sure how he will perform under center; however, he possesses all the quality I'm looking for in a QB.
Whether one is a Bill Walsh fan (finesse) or a Jon Madden fan (power), one likes him the same.
Size, arm, feet/footwork, strength, mobility, quikness, release, football IQ, poise.
This guy seems to have eyes in the back of his head and out of his ears.
He always know where his receivers are.
He routinely looks off defenders (look one way, pass the other.)
To me, he's a Wilson in Luck's body.
He's on a different level than Hundley who's still raw in his progression.
Unless Mariota starts doing stupid things like Winston, I believe he (Mariota) will be the first pick next year, and I would hate to see the Titans draft him.
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Old 05-17-2014   #131
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Default Re: Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

http://touch.orlandosentinel.com/#se.../p2p-80225548/

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FSU quarterback Jameis Winston has been caught in a big, fat lie and now has serious credibility issues. When he got cited for shoplifting those crab legs from Publix a couple of weeks ago, Winston released a statement through his attorney telling us he went to Publix with the "intent to purchase dinner" but in a moment of "youthful ignorance" he mistakenly walked out of the store without paying for "one of my items."

Doesn't that statement lead you to believe Winston purchased some other items and maybe just forgot to put the crab legs on the checkout counter conveyor belt so the cashier could run them through the scanner?

Um, that's not exactly what happened.

The video from Publix released earlier this week shows Winston not going through the checkout line at all and simply walking out of the store without paying for any of his items. In addition, the police report says he intentionally tried to avoid store security when walking out of the store.

Winston's concocted story turns him from Famous Jameis to Lame-ous Jameis.

And, while we're on the subject, you know what else I'm not buying? I'm not buying FSU football coach Jimbo Fisher's contention that the reason he's not disciplining his quarterback is because Winston has already been suspended from playing in a couple of FSU baseball games.

Puh-leeze.

The reason Jimbo won't suspend Winston for a game is because FSU opens the season with high-powered Oklahoma State. Let's face it, if the Seminoles opened with The Citadel their Week 2 opponent Jimbo would be much more likely to try and teach his entitled quarterback a lesson.
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Old 05-17-2014   #132
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Default Re: Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Most important here is to learn from your mistakes, I made my share. I have developed my eval process from mistakes I made. If TB turns out to be a just an average QB or less, will you know why?

TB could be a good QB in WCO as a game manager w/ a game that takes advantages of his strengths and avoids his weaknesses.

If you eliminate all QBs who have not played under pressure or have never produced in pressure situations or game winning drives you can eliminate a lot of not so good QBs. I now you think it suspect but for the future, keep an eye on it.
sorry for your loss valiant fight never yielding on Bortles. FWIW if not for being drafted by the Jaguars I think his odds of success would have favored him more here if selected. That being said Savage who was selected is in the perfect situation. How do you grade that? His upside & ability to fit exactly what O'Brian wants couldn't have aligned better yet can't say he was the better prospect. Don't have a lot of hope for Bridgewater either winding up in Minnesota. Manziel will probably fare better if they adopt a spread offense but point being each organization will need to adopt to their QB's strength. Tom was, simply put, a system fit without changes required, just a lot of polishing, learning the playbook & continuous reps.
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Old 05-20-2014   #133
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Default Re: Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
He'sslike Mariota the most.
As I mentioned last year, his stock was rising sharply the more the scouts and "semi" scouts learned more about him.
Granted, he plays in a spread system so we don't know for sure how he will perform under center; however, he possesses all the quality I'm looking for in a QB.
Whether one is a Bill Walsh fan (finesse) or a Jon Madden fan (power), one likes him the same.
Size, arm, feet/footwork, strength, mobility, quikness, release, football IQ, poise.
This guy seems to have eyes in the back of his head and out of his ears.
He always know where his receivers are.
He routinely looks off defenders (look one way, pass the other.)
To me, he's a Wilson in Luck's body.
He's on a different level than Hundley who's still raw in his progression.
Unless Mariota starts doing stupid things like Winston, I believe he (Mariota) will be the first pick next year, and I would hate to see the Titans draft him.
Just to piggyback off of this, here is a list of QBs for you guys to look out for next season. These are the guys that caught my eye this year. All will be eligible for the draft.

Kevin Hogan, Stanford - SR
Taylor Kelly, Arizona St - SR
Bryce Petty, Baylor - SR
Sean Mannion, Oregon St - SR
Devin Gardner, Michigan - SR
Shane Carden, ECU - SR
Jake Waters, Kansas St - SR

Marcus Mariota, Oregon - JR
Brett Hundley, UCLA - JR
Nate Sudfeld, Indiana - JR
Cody Kessler, USC - JR
Travis Wilson, Utah - JR
Matt Johnson, Bowling Green - JR

Jameis Winston, Florida St - SO
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Old 05-20-2014   #134
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Default Re: Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Just to piggyback off of this, here is a list of QBs for you guys to look out for next season. These are the guys that caught my eye this year. All will be eligible for the draft.

Kevin Hogan, Stanford - SR
Taylor Kelly, Arizona St - SR
Bryce Petty, Baylor - SR
Sean Mannion, Oregon St - SR
Devin Gardner, Michigan - SR
Shane Carden, ECU - SR
Jake Waters, Kansas St - SR

Marcus Mariota, Oregon - JR
Brett Hundley, UCLA - JR
Nate Sudfeld, Indiana - JR
Cody Kessler, USC - JR
Travis Wilson, Utah - JR
Matt Johnson, Bowling Green - JR

Jameis Winston, Florida St - SO
Good stuff. I like a few other guys like Rakeem Cato (Marshall) and Chuckie Keeton (Utah State) but both are severely undersized.

Also, keep an eye out for Marquise Williams from North Carolina. He's raw, but if he has a breakout year like I expect him to then he may declare.
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Old 05-20-2014   #135
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Default Re: Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Just to piggyback off of this, here is a list of QBs for you guys to look out for next season. These are the guys that caught my eye this year. All will be eligible for the draft.

Kevin Hogan, Stanford - SR
Taylor Kelly, Arizona St - SR
Bryce Petty, Baylor - SR
Sean Mannion, Oregon St - SR
Devin Gardner, Michigan - SR
Shane Carden, ECU - SR
Jake Waters, Kansas St - SR

Marcus Mariota, Oregon - JR
Brett Hundley, UCLA - JR
Nate Sudfeld, Indiana - JR
Cody Kessler, USC - JR
Travis Wilson, Utah - JR
Matt Johnson, Bowling Green - JR

Jameis Winston, Florida St - SO
Kessler needs to stay in school. Good raw talent, but he needs the seasoning. Otherwise he could have a Sanchez-like flameout.
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Old 05-20-2014   #136
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Default Re: Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

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Good stuff. I like a few other guys like Rakeem Cato (Marshall) and Chuckie Keeton (Utah State) but both are severely undersized.

Also, keep an eye out for Marquise Williams from North Carolina. He's raw, but if he has a breakout year like I expect him to then he may declare.
I don't see Cato as a NFL prospect. I love Keeton in college but I don't project him too highly for the NFL either.

I almost put Williams on this list but I think he is far too raw to declare early. He needs two more years. Would not be surprised to see him have a great season though.
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Old 05-20-2014   #137
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Default Re: Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

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Kessler needs to stay in school. Good raw talent, but he needs the seasoning. Otherwise he could have a Sanchez-like flameout.
I agree. At this point, Mariota is the only one of those Juniors I would be comfortable with declaring early. But we still have a whole year for things to change.
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Old 05-20-2014   #138
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Default Re: Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

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Also, keep an eye out for Marquise Williams from North Carolina. He's raw, but if he has a breakout year like I expect him to then he may declare.
Marquise should've been kept in this year against Miami. He was looking so much better than Renner.

BUT I agree with bah007 that he really needs to stay. I wouldn't take him if he declares after this year because I just don't see one year as a starter as enough. I also expect him to do really well this year. The WR core is solid and Tabb, while not Ebron, is still pretty athletic and has good hands. Plus, UNC has an awesome group of RBs.
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Old 05-21-2014   #139
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Default Re: Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
I agree. At this point, Mariota is the only one of those Juniors I would be comfortable with declaring early. But we still have a whole year for things to change.
I still have a soft spot for Hundley.

Also really like Taylor Kelly.
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Old 05-21-2014   #140
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Default Re: Jamies Winston Qb Florida State

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCTexan View Post
Marquise should've been kept in this year against Miami. He was looking so much better than Renner.

BUT I agree with bah007 that he really needs to stay. I wouldn't take him if he declares after this year because I just don't see one year as a starter as enough. I also expect him to do really well this year. The WR core is solid and Tabb, while not Ebron, is still pretty athletic and has good hands. Plus, UNC has an awesome group of RBs.
It will be his first full year as the starter, but he did start 6 games last year with Renner injured. I do agree though, he's still very raw and should come back. Just saying that I expect him to have a big year and he might decide to come out.

And UNC is loaded at the skill positions. I think they return every WR and 3 out of their top 4 RB's.
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