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Old 02-09-2014   #1581
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by matts290 View Post
Weird, the 5 prospects I think most would answer with would be

1. Clowney
2. Wakins
3. Barr
4. Mack
5. One of Robinson, Matthews, or Mosley
I would put Louis Nix in the top 5.

So that would make 8 Players that are more highly rated than any QB in this draft? If you took Clowney #1 would you trade back up to 10 and pick a QB?
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Old 02-09-2014   #1582
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Quote:
Originally Posted by matts290 View Post
Weird, the 5 prospects I think most would answer with would be

1. Clowney
2. Wakins
3. Barr
4. Mack
5. One of Robinson, Matthews, or Mosley
Watkins
Clowney
Robinson
Lewan
Evans
Barr
Mosley
Matthews

We're up to 8.
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Old 02-09-2014   #1583
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I just don't think any of the top 3 QB's will amount to more than Cutler/Rivers/Romo.

Perpetual mediocrity.
So, rivers was not or is not a franchise caliber qb? If people knew romo would play the way he has,where do you think he would be drafted in 2004?

Luck has been good,but its not like he's pulled a 80s elway and packed scrubs to superbowl. Fact of the matter is his best attribute is short term memory,not his inconsistent and streaky ball placement. Even with his negatives,no one is saying it was a bad pick or they should've moved down.
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Old 02-09-2014   #1584
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Each one of those 5 players will have more impact at their position than any of these three QBs will have over several others in this draft.
See this is where I think you are wrong and where your while philosophy on the draft is flawed.

I think first you just need to admit to us and yourselves that you really really like McCarron.

A lot of your opinions I think are derived from your opinion that McCarron is the best choice at QB for this team. Nothing wrong with thinking that, even thought I mightily disagree but I think your other points would make more sense is you just established that first.

Second I think it is impossible to say that any 5 non QB prospects will have more effect on their team than any QB in this draft. There is no way to know any of these guys pan out or even become the best at their respective position in this draft class. Clowney could end up being a great DE but the best pass rusher in this class may be at the end of the second round somewhere. Robinson may be a solid tackle for years to come but maybe the leagues next great LT comes out of the 3rd...

Just like the best QB in this draft is guaranteed to be one of the top drafted, the same applies for every other position in football.

What can't be disputed is how big of an impact the position of QB itself makes on a team in comparison to other positions and the need to get the right one. This whole system of labeling players on a 0-100 scale is pointless, because at the end of the day you have to have a good QB to win in this league. You don't HAVE to have a great DE, or RT, or WR. Sure it helps, and you obviously need much more than just a QB, you need a complete team, but no single position is more important than quarter back...

And with that in mind and using your system, shouldn't a "92" QB compared to a "89" QB be weighed differently than say a 95 DE to a 88 DE? Because of just how important the QB position is, shouldn't ever little decimal of a point in this system you call to so often matter even more?
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Old 02-09-2014   #1585
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

These guys have Bridgewater #2, Manziel at 13, & Bortles at 16.

This is a lot closer to the way I see it, except Bridgewater should be down there with Manziel & Bortles, I don't believe Manziel & Bortles should be up there with Bridgewater.

I don't think Bridgewater is a better prospect than Manziel... he may be more NFL ready, but my gut says Manziel will be the better pro: hence better prospect.
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Old 02-09-2014   #1586
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I would put Louis Nix in the top 5.

So that would make 8 Players that are more highly rated than any QB in this draft? If you took Clowney #1 would you trade back up to 10 and pick a QB?
I was just speaking of what I think most people answers would be based on their position, talent, and ceiling of impact for a team. I think a OLB/DE pass rusher is generally regarded as tied for the second most important position on a team with a LT.
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Old 02-09-2014   #1587
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by matts290 View Post

Second I think it is impossible to say that any 5 non QB prospects will have more effect on their team than any QB in this draft.
Even though a moderator would like you to believe I said that, I never said that.


I said it's about drop-off. There are 6 QBs in this draft that I think might be a franchise QB. 3 possible dominant DEs, 3 possible franchise LTs, 2 #1 WRs

All the DEs, LTs, & WRs I want will be gone by the time our second pick comes around.

I feel at least 2 of the QBs I want will still be there.
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Old 02-09-2014   #1588
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Even though a moderator would like you to believe I said that, I never said that.
Thats exactly what I thought you were saying; That the top 5 non QB prospects will have more an impact to their teams in contrast to later prospect than the top 5 QB prospects will have when compared to other prospects at their postition outside the top 5.
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Old 02-09-2014   #1589
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by HJam72 View Post
So, you have 5 non-QB players that you believe will all have a larger positive impact on the average team than any QB available in this draft?

I hear Clowney all the time, of course. Who are your top 5 selections?
I just quickly went to 5 Big Boards. All had Bridgewater rated as the top QB. The first board had him rated #6, the second, #2, the third, #7, the forth, #6, and the fifth had him rated as the #3 prospect. Make what you want from this, but when you talk of having a positive impact, what time frame are you speaking of. Even with the two boards which rated Bridgewater so highly, in the short term, a Clowney or a Barr may have a greater impact. It usually takes several years for the "good" QB's to begin to reach their potential. I'm just going all nit picky and academic.
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Old 02-09-2014   #1590
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Quote:
Originally Posted by matts290 View Post
See this is where I think you are wrong and where your while philosophy on the draft is flawed.

I think first you just need to admit to us and yourselves that you really really like McCarron.

A lot of your opinions I think are derived from your opinion that McCarron is the best choice at QB for this team. Nothing wrong with thinking that, even thought I mightily disagree but I think your other points would make more sense is you just established that first.

Second I think it is impossible to say that any 5 non QB prospects will have more effect on their team than any QB in this draft. There is no way to know any of these guys pan out or even become the best at their respective position in this draft class. Clowney could end up being a great DE but the best pass rusher in this class may be at the end of the second round somewhere. Robinson may be a solid tackle for years to come but maybe the leagues next great LT comes out of the 3rd...

Just like the best QB in this draft is guaranteed to be one of the top drafted, the same applies for every other position in football.

What can't be disputed is how big of an impact the position of QB itself makes on a team in comparison to other positions and the need to get the right one. This whole system of labeling players on a 0-100 scale is pointless, because at the end of the day you have to have a good QB to win in this league. You don't HAVE to have a great DE, or RT, or WR. Sure it helps, and you obviously need much more than just a QB, you need a complete team, but no single position is more important than quarter back...

And with that in mind and using your system, shouldn't a "92" QB compared to a "89" QB be weighed differently than say a 95 DE to a 88 DE? Because of just how important the QB position is, shouldn't ever little decimal of a point in this system you call to so often matter even more?
To win big in the NFL (Super Bowl) you need a CLUTCH QB and a great defense.

In this draft you're just as likely to find a clutch QB late in the 1st or early 2nd rd as at 1-1. None of these top 3 QB's have greatness genes to me. Bridgewater has the best chance of the top 3. IMHO But I don't think he's worth the risk of 1-1.

But I bet you regardless of which QB will be picked (One will be picked) history will be repeating itself.
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Old 02-09-2014   #1591
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Like someone else said..... I think it was Corrosion, even an QB graded at 87 will have more positive impact than a 95 defensive rated player. But those 87 QBs aren't top 5 prospects when they're more abundant than 95 graded defensive players.

Ryan Tannehill, Branden Weeden... high 80s right? 85, 87 type QBs?

Then you've got Dontari Poe sitting there with a 95 grade. You're taking Tannehill?
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The answer is that it don't work that way. There are more 85-90 QB prospects than there are 95 defensive prospects. Or Offensive for that matter.
Where does all this 85, 90, 95 stuff come from? This all just sounds like made-up gibberish to me. "85, 87 type QBs"? What does that even mean? What is the difference between an 85 graded QB and a 90 graded QB.

At some point, this type of discussion becomes ridiculous in my opinion. I don't understand overanalyzing prospects in this manner. Most of these ratings are going to be completely inaccurate when all is said and done, so they are basically just pre-draft, made-up talking points. We know very little about each player's work ethic, ability to learn, mental capacity, etc. These are the characteristics that matter the most and set prospects/players apart, especially with QBs. Any rating system would have to take these characteristics into account or they are completely flawed. While, we may know enough to form an opinion that fills in the blanks, we do not know nearly enough to rate a prospect down to a number. Everybody has their opinion, and that's all well and good, but trying to throw around "this guy is only an 87, but this guy is a 90" is goofy.

Just my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by matts290 View Post
This whole system of labeling players on a 0-100 scale is pointless, because at the end of the day you have to have a good QB to win in this league. You don't HAVE to have a great DE, or RT, or WR. Sure it helps, and you obviously need much more than just a QB, you need a complete team, but no single position is more important than quarter back...

And with that in mind and using your system, shouldn't a "92" QB compared to a "89" QB be weighed differently than say a 95 DE to a 88 DE? Because of just how important the QB position is, shouldn't ever little decimal of a point in this system you call to so often matter even more?
Didn't see this before I posted, but it's worth quoting.
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Old 02-09-2014   #1592
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Watkins
Clowney
Robinson
Lewan
Evans
Barr
Mosley
Matthews

We're up to 8.
I'm thinking not but for giggles and grins I'll give you two . One of them will go to the Rams a decent team and the other will get 8 sacks .
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Old 02-09-2014   #1593
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
Where does all this 85, 90, 95 stuff come from?
It started off purely illustrative of the idea that a QB who may be of lower "total grade," quality, ranking, worth 5 spots lower so trade back - however you want to describe it - might be of greater benefit to a team than the higher graded, etc. DE, WR, whatever, non-QB.
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Old 02-09-2014   #1594
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by matts290 View Post
I was just speaking of what I think most people answers would be based on their position, talent, and ceiling of impact for a team. I think a OLB/DE pass rusher is generally regarded as tied for the second most important position on a team with a LT.
Agreed

That's why I asked others if they truly believe the top 3 are all of that and fell, If Clowney was picked #1 would people be willing to trade back up and get the QB and fill the 2 most important positions on the team in one draft.

If they/you were willing to trade back up to say 8 how much would you be willing to give up? A Cleveland/Atl type trade shouldn't be out of the question if you truly believe in the top 3 QB's. (Which I don't)
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Old 02-09-2014   #1595
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
It started off purely illustrative of the idea that a QB who may be of lower "total grade," quality, ranking, worth 5 spots lower so trade back - however you want to describe it - might be of greater benefit to a team than the higher graded, etc. DE, WR, whatever, non-QB.
Yeah , that was the intent an illustrative tool .... in another thread. Now its taken on a life of its own.
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Old 02-09-2014   #1596
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by HJam72 View Post
So, you have 5 non-QB players that you believe will all have a larger positive impact on the average team than any QB available in this draft?

I hear Clowney all the time, of course. Who are your top 5 selections?
Zero of them.

No player has a greater impact upon a teams success or failure than its starting QB. NONE.
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Old 02-09-2014   #1597
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Curious, what did you practice before every interview?

BTW, did you know that there was talk of Bray having beaten out Daniels for the backup QB spot? I'm still very high on Bray, especially under Reid's tutelage.

Count me in on getting the next Brady in the 6th rd. I still like my guy Brett Smith as much as any QB in this draft and have done so for some time. He wont start yr 1 but he's going to be a good one with Reid type coaching.
Google: "common interview questions"

It's about the same 20 recycled or reworded every time. I will generally practice saying those in front of someone, generally different family members or my girl. Then I try to use the research I did on the company or my past experiences to better answer the question/questions asked.

I do the same thing with raise proposals.

As for Bray... I'll believe it when I see it, which I believe will be never. We already had 2 UDFAs starting for NFL teams this year, which unfortunately for my Alma Mater was 1 too many.

A few years ago when I started joining these forums and talking about the draft I would always find my dark horse QBs that I thought had real potential. Today I know (from my experience and obviously my opinion), it's a waste of time. I haven't seen one once. I can also argue Tyler Bray or Case Keenum could have won a Super Bowl on the Seahawks too, that's obviously another debate though.
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Old 02-09-2014   #1598
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
It started off purely illustrative of the idea that a QB who may be of lower "total grade," quality, ranking, worth 5 spots lower so trade back - however you want to describe it - might be of greater benefit to a team than the higher graded, etc. DE, WR, whatever, non-QB.
I understand it as an illustration to make that point, but it seems to have grown, perhaps accidentally, into something else.

I think the quoted point can't really be argued, especially when you consider that any of these players can go complete bust. The QB is the most important position on the field. He has the largest impact on the game and acquiring one that is in the top tier is extremely difficult. They also tend to last much longer due to the fact that the skills that set them apart don't deteriorate at the rate of elite receivers, DEs, etc.
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Old 02-09-2014   #1599
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post
Google: "common interview questions"

It's about the same 20 recycled or reworded every time. I will generally practice saying those in front of someone, generally different family members or my girl. Then I try to use the research I did on the company or my past experiences to better answer the question/questions asked.

I do the same thing with raise proposals.

As for Bray... I'll believe it when I see it, which I believe will be never. We already had 2 UDFAs starting for NFL teams this year, which unfortunately for my Alma Mater was 1 too many.

A few years ago when I started joining these forums and talking about the draft I would always find my dark horse QBs that I thought had real potential. Today I know (from my experience and obviously my opinion), it's a waste of time. I haven't seen one once. I can also argue Tyler Bray or Case Keenum could have won a Super Bowl on the Seahawks too, that's obviously another debate though.
Good to know. Interviewing people isn't a strength of mine. I'm terrible at it. (I'm a sucker with a soft heart)

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Old 02-09-2014   #1600
Corrosion
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
I understand it as an illustration to make that point, but it seems to have grown, perhaps accidentally, into something else.

I think the quoted point can't really be argued, especially when you consider that any of these players can go complete bust. The QB is the most important position on the field. He has the largest impact on the game and acquiring one that is in the top tier is extremely difficult. They also tend to last much longer due to the fact that the skills that set them apart don't deteriorate at the rate of elite receivers, DEs, etc.
Yeah , it morphed into a numbers game from an illustrative tool. The original post is in the Clowney thread.


Here's the original post so you can get the proper context (then you can see where it ran to).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Considering how important the QB position is , I'd argue that an 85-87 QB is more valuable than a 95 at just about any other position , including DE. You can scheme to nullify him , or simply run away from him .... Same for a DB or LBer. WR you double team .... OL you attack elsewhere.

Clowney's statistics this season are a very good example of scheming to take away a guy - 3.5 sacks. Teams nullified him in general.



Its really difficult to scheme to hide a weak QB or stop a top tier QB. Both require a team effort with multiple moving parts.

The Texans are a perfect example of not being able to hide poor QB play .... 2-14.


Question for me is still the same - Is there a QB in this draft that grades out that well. If there is , I take that QB. If there isn't , I take the highest rated player (That wouldn't be Clowney either).
But .... your bottom paragraph says exactly what I was getting at in with the original thought. I think its pretty much indisputable.
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