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Old 02-02-2014   #1441
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Series #1 is flawless.

#2 - incomplete pass due to WR falling down. Good throw. Eats a sack on an overload blitz to his left. No chance. You can blame him for not changing the protection but nobody on his line blocked anyway so it's a wash. Dropped pass on 2nd & 18 on next play. Nobody open on 3rd down so he hits his underneath guy and settles for a FG.

#3 - WR in motion doesn't chip the blitzer on play action. QB has no chance.

#4 - Under pressure makes a stupid throw into coverage. Should have thrown it away. Telegraphs a throw into the flat and has it batted down. 3rd & 15 buys time for six seconds but nobody gets open. Hits WR on the sideline short of first down.

#5 - Awesome placement on a checkdown throw to his back. Dropped pass on next play. Buys time on both of the next two plays but has to throw it away both times because nobody can get open.

#6 - 3rd & 3 he drops a perfect pass in over the top between a CB and S. Not a terribly difficult throw. His guy had at least three steps on his defender.

#7 - good throw on a corner route. Put it high but away from defenders. Nobody gets open on 3rd & 9 and he forces a bad ball over the middle. Lucky it wasn't picked. Survives for a FG.

#8 - Quick read and release beats a blitz on first play. Wild throw on a bubble on the next play. Dropped pass on first pass of 4th quarter. On 3rd down beats pressure by hitting a crosser for a first down. 3rd & 7 he overthrows his guy high but keeps it away from defenders.

#9 - Eats a sack on 3rd & 4. Stepped up but couldn't get the ball out.
-----
[b]When I scout guys I want to see them at their absolute best and at their absolute worst. Their flaws are just as important to me as their strengths. This was Bridgewater's worst game of the season, and I still come away seeing only two bad throws plus two more bad decisions. One should have been picked. If that's the worst game he has put on tape then I feel safe saying he has a pretty high floor. If you want to see his ceiling look at the tape from the Miami game.[/b/

In this game I see an ultra conservative gameplan and WRs who can't get open the whole game save for two or three plays. His guys do get him some YAC when they actually catch the ball. Houston did do a great job covering WRs off the line and disguising pressure.

Bridgewater honestly looked like a guy who knew where to go with the ball on nearly every single play, but his guys couldn't get open so he was forced to check down far too frequently. He got greedy and tried to force two balls, one which was dangerous and should have been picked.

If you want to compare the top three, then compare this to what Manziel did against LSU and Bortles did against Memphis this year.

Bridgewater may not quite show the ceiling of Manziel, but there is no doubt his floor is significantly higher.
This is my theory also. I look at the worse and see if I can find variants in the process. When a guy plays good or bad,it should look similar to get a true understanding of the player. When I guy plays great but he did it and it looked nothing like his bad game,those are the inconsistent things that will get coaches fired. Every qb has bad games,but do they look like his good games? This so called bad game looked like his good games. That's why people say his floor is high.
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Old 02-02-2014   #1442
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Good points..... except Teddy's bad game came against ConferenceUSA, I mean the AAC. at home.
You consistently make the level of competition argument about playing against AAC talent, which is valid to an extent, but have never seemed to acknowledge that his teammates are AAC talent as well.

A&M's offensive talent is on par with LSU's defensive talent. Manziel still played awful against them.
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Old 02-02-2014   #1443
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Thanks playoffs.

WTH is he doing?
He's a natural leader. Look at all the people falling in line under his cheer-leadership.

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Old 02-02-2014   #1444
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
You consistently make the level of competition argument about playing against AAC talent, which is valid to an extent, but have never seemed to acknowledge that his teammates are AAC talent as well.

A&M's offensive talent is on par with LSU's defensive talent. Manziel still played awful against them.
I understand your point. Still.

A poor game against UH is not equal to a poor game against LSU, or Oaklahoma.

My point is not that McCarron or Manziel are better than Bridgewater, it's that none of them are worth the #1 overall. If a bad game vs LSU or Oaklahoma says Manziel & McCarron are not worthy, then a bad game vs UH says twice as much.
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Old 02-02-2014   #1445
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I understand your point. Still.

A poor game against UH is not equal to a poor game against LSU, or Oaklahoma.

My point is not that McCarron or Manziel are better than Bridgewater, it's that none of them are worth the #1 overall. If a bad game vs LSU or Oaklahoma says Manziel & McCarron are not worthy, then a bad game vs UH says twice as much.
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Old 02-02-2014   #1446
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I understand your point. Still.

A poor game against UH is not equal to a poor game against LSU, or Oaklahoma.

My point is not that McCarron or Manziel are better than Bridgewater, it's that none of them are worth the #1 overall. If a bad game vs LSU or Oaklahoma says Manziel & McCarron are not worthy, then a bad game vs UH says twice as much.
But this isn't all in a vacuum. You can't just critique the team they played against. You also need to critique the performance. What is your definition of poor? If your definition of a poor game is what Bridgewater did against Houston then what Manziel did against LSU is something entirely different. He was dreadful. Is a dreadful performance against LSU somehow worth more than a poor performance against Houston?

Bridgewater had a below average game against Houston.

Manziel had a below average game against Missouri. Similar performance, better opponent. Your argument makes sense here.

But against LSU he was dog ****. 41 attempts at 39% with two INTs. He doesn't get credit for looking like absolute **** just because he played a good team.

And McCarron is similar. Oklahoma wasn't even his worst performance. His defense just didn't show up to protect him so they happened to lose.

Average game against Oklahoma. Good opponent. Below average game against Mississippi St. Mediocre opponent. Below average game against Ole Miss but his defense pitched a shutout and his RBs had 34 carries for 251 yards so it gets overlooked. Average game against Colorado St, an inferior opponent. Piss poor game against Virginia Tech, a solid opponent.

If you compare the three, it is pretty obvious that Bridgewater at his absolute worst is better than Manziel, and clearly better than McCarron.

I'm not even trying to argue here that Bridgewater is worth the #1 overall. But you're just using blanket statements without doing your homework to lump the other two into his category.
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Old 02-02-2014   #1447
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I understand your point. Still.

A poor game against UH is not equal to a poor game against LSU, or Oaklahoma.

My point is not that McCarron or Manziel are better than Bridgewater, it's that none of them are worth the #1 overall. If a bad game vs LSU or Oaklahoma says Manziel & McCarron are not worthy, then a bad game vs UH says twice as much.
Now you've gone and done it, offended the Teddy Fanatics, prepare for the onslaught.
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Old 02-02-2014   #1448
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Now you've gone and done it, offended the Teddy Fanatics, prepare for the onslaught.
I have no issue with any criticism of any player, as long as it is a fair and honest criticism. And not a desperate attempt to attack the player because he is not the one you want the team to draft.
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Old 02-02-2014   #1449
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
I have no issue with any criticism of any player, as long as it is a fair and honest criticism. And not a desperate attempt to attack the player because he is not the one you want the team to draft.
This ^^^ sounds like a contradiction in terms.
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Old 02-02-2014   #1450
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I understand your point. Still.

A poor game against UH is not equal to a poor game against LSU, or Oaklahoma.

My point is not that McCarron or Manziel are better than Bridgewater, it's that none of them are worth the #1 overall. If a bad game vs LSU or Oaklahoma says Manziel & McCarron are not worthy, then a bad game vs UH says twice as much.
Bridgewater went 19-29 and his WR's had at least four drops. He only had two bad throws the entire game and this is considered one of his worst games of the year. I'm really not seeing a bad game from Bridgewater here.
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Old 02-02-2014   #1451
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
I'm not even trying to argue here that Bridgewater is worth the #1 overall. But you're just using blanket statements without doing your homework to lump the other two into his category.
Well that was my only point. They started comparing that game against Manziel's & McCarron.

I said, "Look at this game & tell me Bridgewater is worthy of the 1-1."

They said, "Well Manziel sucked against LSU & McCarron sucked against Oklahoma."

I agree with you & it's not apples & apples, but that's they way they took it & now I'm trying to defend that argument to you.

This is not me "not doing my homework"
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Old 02-02-2014   #1452
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Well that was my only point. They started comparing that game against Manziel's & McCarron.

I said, "Look at this game & tell me Bridgewater is worthy of the 1-1."

They said, "Well Manziel sucked against LSU & McCarron sucked against Oklahoma."

I agree with you & it's not apples & apples, but that's they way they took it & now I'm trying to defend that argument to you.

This is not me "not doing my homework"
Understood. The homework comment was not meant as a dig, only as a suggestion that you were not actually considering the performances in the mentioned games, merely looking at who the opponent was.

To me, there are two arguments against Bridgewater at #1. One would be if his hands were to measure small at the combine. The other would be that he is so mentally ahead of his college opponents that he has an unfair advantage that may not translate to the pros where everyone studies the game just as much as he does. That could possibly limit his upside at the next level.

After studying these three I can say that at their absolute worst:

Bridgewater will play to his team's strengths and take what the defense gives him. He won't overwhelm you but he won't make mistakes and will beat you slowly.

Manziel will lose his team games because he is too reliant on his legs, too much of a gunslinger, and not efficient in the mental part of playing QB in the NFL.

McCarron will have to be carried by a superior supporting cast and won't be able to win games for his team with his arm.

This is only a discussion of the players at their absolute floor and ignores their potential upside.
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Old 02-02-2014   #1453
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Manziel's game against LSU was so weird; he had 41 pass attempts and they basically stopped running entirely, even after the first few attempts were getting some yards. I mean, we won so I'm not too upset, but it was also a bit of a weird game.

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Besides, it's fate. Just look at young Bridgewater with his Nostradamus hat on.

That's pretty awesome, actually.
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Old 02-02-2014   #1454
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
This ^^^ sounds like a contradiction in terms.
In what way?

There are fair and honest criticisms against Bridgewater. And I have acknowledged them.

What I will argue against is when someone creates an unfair or dishonest argument against a player in an attempt to prop up "their guy".
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Old 02-02-2014   #1455
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Good points..... except Teddy's bad game came against ConferenceUSA, I mean the AAC. at home.
UH has a pretty darn good defense actually, ranked top 20 in FCS. Houston has actually been doing very well on the recruiting front the last couple years despite having to compete with A&M, UT, and LSU.

The point is, looking at one single game, which wasn't even that bad in the first place is not a good practice for determining a players stock. You have to evaluate a player as a whole and look at their entire body of work and skill set and determine how that may translate into the NFL.

65% completion and 206 yards against one of the best defenses in his respective conference is not a single game damnation on Teddy not being a first overall pick. If you don't like him at 1.1, that is fine, but use more than one game, that was actually not that bad, as your reasoning.
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Old 02-02-2014   #1456
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Too many lazy 'analysts' in here.

So to summarize, Bridgewater opponents are saying that because he played in a poor conference and had a few bad games then he is destined to be a horrible QB? Not at all trying to guage the tools he's working with and the lack of talent he had on his team. Where could he be in 5 years with superior talent surrounding him and NFL coaches molding him?

So in essence SEC QB's should all flourish in the NFL because they played in the best conference? Crazy talk, go look back at how many of these 'super
conference' QBs are currently at the top of their game in the NFL.

If a QB needs the best players surrounding him in order to be successful then why do you think he would flourish when he is on a team that lacks that same type of talent?
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Old 02-02-2014   #1457
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I understand your point. Still.

A poor game against UH is not equal to a poor game against LSU, or Oaklahoma.

My point is not that McCarron or Manziel are better than Bridgewater, it's that none of them are worth the #1 overall. If a bad game vs LSU or Oaklahoma says Manziel & McCarron are not worthy, then a bad game vs UH says twice as much.
Except bridgewater didn't have a bad game.
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Old 02-02-2014   #1458
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Help me break down this game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQKN-F6fk6I

I'm not seeing a QB that I would be thrilled about taking with the #1 overall pick.
I don't like what I see watching this game. Only three throws were not screen passes or comeback routes. Most of those comeback routes, the receiver is waiting on the ball, may be two of them where the ball is there when the receiver turns. One of those screen passes was horrible placement where the ball was placed behind the RB.

I only saw three good throws, the one dropped over #9's shoulder for the TD, the one where he leads the receiver to the sideline, then the deep crosser that the receiver failed to catch.

His feet... when I think of footwork, I'm looking for something more than the fact that he crosses his feet as he backs out of the line. His steps are supposed to be his timing mechanism. Each step should be a read, by the time he gets to his last step he should have made his decision & his forward step should be in the direction of that decision. Instead, Bridgewater gets to the bottom of his drop, then goes through his reads.

That was only true for later in the game, the second half. The first half, it looked like every throw was predetermined before the snap... I don't have a problem with that, only that the receivers shouldn't be waiting on the ball. Instead of going through his reads, he's waiting for the receiver to open up, then he throws the ball. I know a lot of you are not going to agree with me on this, but this is what I see.

1st half, he consistently held the ball high & it paid off with nice throwing motion. 2nd half, he drops the ball & you can see that hitch in his throwing motion.

When I think of a #1 overall pick, I expect a guy who is 6-4, 6-5... 225-240, I expect his throwing mechanics to be automatic, his footwork & his reads to be synchronized. I expect to see good anticipation, good ball placement, good accuracy, good arm strength, & good mobility.

In my lifetime the only guys who met those requirements, the "prototypical" guys were Peyton Manning & Phillip Rivers.

You don't have to be prototypical to be worthy of the #1 overall though. Michael Vick for instance. He lacked size, his mechanics weren't even close, he had no accuracy to speak of. But he had plus mobility... a big plus mobility. I wouldn't have taken him #1 overall, but I had no problem with Atlanta doing it.... I could understand it.

I don't see where Bridgewater's plus attributes overcome his minus attributes. He's not Troy Aikman with placement & accuracy. He's not Michael Vick athletic. He's going to have to work on his mechanics when he gets to a real "pro system." He shouldn't be having to work on his throwing motion, how he holds the ball, or sync'ing his feet & his reads if he's the #1 overall, if he has no plus attributes.

I see people talking up his footwork & his throwing motion, saying he's the most technically sound QB in this draft & I'm just not seeing it.

I see people saying his size isn't an issue, that he'll be put on an NFL diet... but the NCAAF does a good job putting weight on other players.

His biggest attribute is his TD/Int ratio but imo, his level of competition makes it a wash.

Now if the argument is that this draft is void of talent & therefore Bridgewater deserves to be a top 10 pick & our need dictates we take the best QB, then I can see an argument for Bridgewater. But on his own, he does not merit a 1st overall selection.

I've watched this cut-up. I've watched the one against Miami, I've watched the one against UCF, I've watched several drives against Ohio, & a few from 2012. Every time, I'm more impressed with his receivers than I am with Bridgewater.
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Old 02-02-2014   #1459
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Could not disagree with you more thunder. But your mind is made up, so is mine. I'm cool with waiting to see how it all pans out.
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Old 02-02-2014   #1460
bhsman
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Quote:
Originally Posted by matts290 View Post
UH has a pretty darn good defense actually, ranked top 20 in FCS. Houston has actually been doing very well on the recruiting front the last couple years despite having to compete with A&M, UT, and LSU.
I was about to say, as someone who doesn't watch UH, wasn't their defense a bit improved this year?

Quote:
The point is, looking at one single game, which wasn't even that bad in the first place is not a good practice for determining a players stock. You have to evaluate a player as a whole and look at their entire body of work and skill set and determine how that may translate into the NFL.

65% completion and 206 yards against one of the best defenses in his respective conference is not a single game damnation on Teddy not being a first overall pick. If you don't like him at 1.1, that is fine, but use more than one game, that was actually not that bad, as your reasoning.
Eh, it's still worth looking at someone's 'worst' game just for the sake of comparison. That said, these were my takes:

1:17 - Everything up to this point looked just fine; Houston's corners are covering UL's pretty well but Teddy is still getting the ball to his guys. I only point out this play because it was an incompletion because the WR slipped, and on the play following it Teddy should have just thrown the ball away, but he still got some yardage under pressure, which could effect punts. It's not first down, but it's something; he didn't get sacked.

2:03 - Holy inside pressure, Batman! Sacked, though I think any QB not named JFF would have been sacked, as well.

2:18 - Gets the ball out very quickly with pressure in his face, but WR bobbles the throw and drops it.

2:28 - Good coverage by UH's secondary; Teddy checks it down and gets what he can; second time this has happened on 3rd and 15+. There wasn't a big sack before this that I noticed, so maybe some runs got stuffed? Won't be able to tell without watching the full game.

2:57 - Again, has to check it down on 3rd and 23(!!!) after a DB blitz wasn't blocked. At this point I'd like to see Teddy challenge UH deep, but at this point the ball was right next to UL's end zone so I can't blame Teddy too much.

3:11 - Throws off-balance and doesn't get enough air under the ball; WR has to come back for it but it bounces off the hands. I think this was the most pressure I've seen Teddy under.

3:23 - Turns his head way too early on the screen pass and the LDE notices and swats the pass down.

3:33 - Internal Pressure, Part 2: Electric Boogaloo. Teddy does a nice job of escaping to his right and getting the ball out, but again this came on a 3rd and 15. Early MVP vote for this game goes to Houston's defensive line; they must have been stuffing runs all day.

4:02 - Teddy gets the ball out as the pocket implodes, but his receiver (#10) drops it, ugh. On second watch, it looks like Teddy was pressured into throwing it behind 10, who can only palm it with his left hand.

4:12 - Houston's Dline doin' work; Teddy has a 7-step drop and almost immediately has to start running left before throwing it away.

4:26 - Teddy has nobody to throw to (last play of the half so it probably wanted to go deep); Houston's line breaks through (there's a flag, so holding?) and Teddy again has to run left and throw it away.

4:53 - Goin' deep! Would have been a touchdown but the receiver was pushed OOB at the 3 yard line after beating his man and making the catch. Probably could have dived for the TD, but whatever. There's no plays made in the RZ, so I'll assume UL just punched it in and didn't throw.

5:30 - Teddy gets a ball out and accurately to his receiver out near the boundary on a 3rd and 13 play, where only his guy could catch it; Teddy might not have Mettenberger's arm strength but if he can make those throws all day he might not need it.

6:01 - 3rd and 9 (UL must have called a LOT of runs - especially considering the video is only 7:38 long; doesn't seem like it was super-effect, though) and AGAIN Teddy is being thrown to the wolves by his line; internal pressure nearly forces a pick, though luckily it was just defended.

6:31 - Just wanted to note that UL seemed to use a lot of screen plays this game that, like their runs, seemed to blow up more than be effective. Just weird play-calling.

So, overall thoughts:

-Houston's defensive line seemed very effective, going by downs and yardage (a surprising number of 3rd and 10+ plays with a couple of sacks to show for it)

-I agree with what was said earlier: UL's receivers didn't seem like they could get a lot of separation and Teddy was forced to run away from incoming pressure

-Teddy did all the things that he normally does, but it was complicated by all the third and longs and his offensive line not giving him much help.
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