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Old 01-22-2014   #1181
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

[Edit: just saw this was posted. Deleting]
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Old 01-22-2014   #1182
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post
lol, there you go. Skip Bayless is always a good guy to have in your corner. He's a good judge of talent.

"Tim Tebow is the next Brett Favre!"

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...ve-said/page/6
Ha, I don't think having Skip Bayless as a supporter should be a knock on Johnny, but he indeed is a buffoon.
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Old 01-22-2014   #1183
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
I couldn't even finish listening to that slobfest. I like teddy but c'mon man. That guys no more a professional scout than anyone here. He's in love with what he has read and now he is exaggerating the truth to get people to think he knows something more than the general public.
Yeesh, buddy.

This is a joke, right? Kollmann is a scout for the NFL Network; he actually watches tape all the time as part of his job. Last year in particular he was tasked with doing a series of defensive prospects ranging from Sam Montgomery to Alex Okafor to Datone Jones and Arthur Brown. I think you're overreacting a bit to him gushing about Teddy, but once he gets into the actual X's and O's of what he's discussing (noting Teddy's blitz recognition and ability to change plays) it's pretty obvious that he knows what he's talking about.

Hell, if nothing else he goes into detail about the Patriot's offense and how they integrated a one-word system borrowing from Chip Kelly before he was hired by Philadelphia (IIRC he doesn't mention Chip by name but talks about the one-word system). It's useful to hear if only to get a better idea of what O'Brien's offense entails.
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Old 01-22-2014   #1184
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I definitely hear you bro, but I don't want you to discredit him. Matt Barkley was a smoke screen that almost no scouts saw through until the actual combine.

For me personally, Mike Mayock is the best in the game. I am not posting this to discredit him, but to just prove that Barkley was a hell of a smoke screen that had everyone fooled.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap10...2013-nfl-draft

Doing a "big board NFL draft prospects" search in google in the custom range from Feb 1-20 of 2013 will show you that just about everyone was fooled.

Wait until after the combine and see how they rank things then. This guy did mock Hopkins to us last year, so I think he knows what he's doing a little bit.
The point was simple...listening to this guy's "insight" at THIS date is likely to be as insightful as it was last year. I don't care who else was fooled, if he was a real talent evaluator, he wouldn't be so far off. He sounds like just another guy who regurgitates what he's heard elsewhere.


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Old 01-22-2014   #1185
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Barkley was exposed way before combine. Barkley had questionable arm talent as well as slow feet way before combine or even his last year. It didn't take a lot to see barkley was another qb playing with top talent with avg skills.
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Old 01-22-2014   #1186
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
The point was simple...listening to this guy's "insight" at THIS date is likely to be as insightful as it was last year. I don't care who else was fooled, if he was a real talent evaluator, he wouldn't be so far off. He sounds like just another guy who regurgitates what he's heard elsewhere.
I agree that at this point, pre-Combine, analysis shouldn't be taken as definitive. That said, passing Kollmann off as some sort of snake oil salesman is terribly short-sighted.
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Old 01-22-2014   #1187
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Lot of respected scouts had Barkley graded kind of high. Maybe a couple of you knew he wasn't going to be good, but I think more are lying when yall say you knew he was going to suck.

I gave you in the earlier post the tools to search Google on your own to show he's graded pretty high by many, but that's fine. Here's a few more. After the combine he dropped on everyone's boards.

That's why I respect these scouts. They understand their mistakes and they change their boards. You don't do the draft before the combine and there is plenty of time to change your mind.

It's obviously better when a scout can see there deficiencies before being put to the tests at the combine, but it's not always the case. Good coaching and strong draft classes can generally hide those deficiencies.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl...l-big-board-2/

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...best-prospects

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/s...ring-questions
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Old 01-22-2014   #1188
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post
Lot of respected scouts had Barkley graded kind of high. Maybe a couple of you knew he wasn't going to be good, but I think more are lying when yall say you knew he was going to suck.

I gave you in the earlier post the tools to search Google on your own to show he's graded pretty high by many, but that's fine. Here's a few more. After the combine he dropped on everyone's boards.

That's why I respect these scouts. They understand their mistakes and they change their boards. You don't do the draft before the combine and there is plenty of time to change your mind.

It's obviously better when a scout can see there deficiencies before being put to the tests at the combine, but it's not always the case. Good coaching and strong draft classes can generally hide those deficiencies.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl...l-big-board-2/

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...best-prospects

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/s...ring-questions
Even looking at Mayock's top five by position, there are very few names that didn't perform well this year. Almost everyone he has listed at a non-QB position looks decent.
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Old 01-23-2014   #1189
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Ha, I don't think having Skip Bayless as a supporter should be a knock on Johnny, but he indeed is a buffoon.
I was watching it yesterday so it could make me sleep. I noticed how Skip has become Stephen A Smith's little punk. Stephen A tends to bring the race card in a lot of their topics and Skp quickly backs down and they just have and agreement session. They helped me sleep though lol.
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Old 01-23-2014   #1190
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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I was watching it yesterday so it could make me sleep. I noticed how Skip has become Stephen A Smith's little punk. Stephen A tends to bring the race card in a lot of their topics and Skp quickly backs down and they just have and agreement session. They helped me sleep though lol.
Don't support that show and those 2 idiot analysts.
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Old 01-23-2014   #1191
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Yeesh, buddy.

This is a joke, right? Kollmann is a scout for the NFL Network; he actually watches tape all the time as part of his job. Last year in particular he was tasked with doing a series of defensive prospects ranging from Sam Montgomery to Alex Okafor to Datone Jones and Arthur Brown. I think you're overreacting a bit to him gushing about Teddy, but once he gets into the actual X's and O's of what he's discussing (noting Teddy's blitz recognition and ability to change plays) it's pretty obvious that he knows what he's talking about.

Hell, if nothing else he goes into detail about the Patriot's offense and how they integrated a one-word system borrowing from Chip Kelly before he was hired by Philadelphia (IIRC he doesn't mention Chip by name but talks about the one-word system). It's useful to hear if only to get a better idea of what O'Brien's offense entails.
If that's what you consider X's and O's more power to you. If that's the best that he's got I have no use for him.

Like disaaks3 said "I don't care who else was fooled, if he was a real talent evaluator, he wouldn't be so far off. He sounds like just another guy who regurgitates what he's heard elsewhere.".

That's exactly how I felt listening to the guy. He's no scout he's a talking head who forms his opinions from reading popular opinions. There are way to many of those type people out there. After you do this for a few years you will start to see right through these people. It's a waste of time following them.
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Old 01-23-2014   #1192
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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If that's what you consider X's and O's more power to you. If that's the best that he's got I have no use for him.

Like disaaks3 said "I don't care who else was fooled, if he was a real talent evaluator, he wouldn't be so far off. He sounds like just another guy who regurgitates what he's heard elsewhere.".

That's exactly how I felt listening to the guy. He's no scout he's a talking head who forms his opinions from reading popular opinions. There are way to many of those type people out there. After you do this for a few years you will start to see right through these people. It's a waste of time following them.
You yourself said you didn't listen to the whole thing because you didn't like what you were hearing.

Don't get me wrong, if I have an opinion and have conviction for my stance I will defend it.

What I won't do is listen to the start of it, hear something I don't like, turn it off, attempt to discredit the person, then say they don't know anything even though I didn't listen to exactly what they said.

You sound to me like a scorned JFF lover more than anything screaming in a Teddy Bridgewater thread. I get it. You're hurt, you're upset, you wish more people would see things the way you do. Maybe they will after the combine, but for now you are just a drunk guy on the streets wildly throwing your arms in the air trying to fight people in passing.
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Old 01-23-2014   #1193
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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If that's what you consider X's and O's more power to you. If that's the best that he's got I have no use for him.
I am curious as to what you think Xs and Os are? Because listening to that interview he talked a lot about the X's and O's of O'Brien's offense and how he thinks Teddy would fit in with that.

Things he discussed:
-When teams blitz with a SAM LB Teddy can recognize this pre-snap and put a receiver in that hole
-When a QB is a running a 3 wide package and the defense throws a slot-fire blitz with a CB coming. He says that Teddy will recognize this and throw to his hot read for that WR
-Talks about getting Aaron Hernandez in man coverage against a mike LB and personnel groupings and routes they will use in that matchup
-Talks about differences between what Kubiak ran; zone stretch, get a good reach block, get a good cut block on the backside and establish the run and then go to PA fakes with crossers and double moves

(Here is where he really gets down to the nitty gritty of how O'Brien runs his offense opposed to Kubiak and just how important knowing the entire playbook and verbiage is)

-Gives scenario of play: "gun-brown right 74 hoss wide juke" and then breaks down the play bit by bit; Gun=shotgun, brown is the formation, right is the strength of the formation (open side or closed side). 74 is the protection call to tell his lineman what to do; slide left, slide right, man protection, guards are deucing. Then he explains the use of "hoss" which is a one word call they use to tell every receiver which route to run; outside receiver is a hitch, TE is split right inside and running a seam route etc. Basically this word in a play call allows a QB to change every single route with the use of just one word according to a certain look he gets. Wide juke tells the WR that if a defender is playing him a certain play as he begins his route, he can option to juke inside or out.

Then he goes on to talk about what a QB can do with this play call after he gets to the line of scrimmage based at the defensive front, how the CB is lined up against a receiver, if LBs are roaming around like an amoeba defense, and he gives more examples of what the QB has to recognize and then relay the right checks to his WR based on what he sees.

What he discussed above is the very definition of X's and O's, and I don't think that is disputable.

The guy knows his stuff, and to say he doesn't is just plain ridiculous. Now, is he bias towards Bridgewater? Obviously yes, but he is human and every scout no matter how good or bad has their bias. I agree that he seems to have quite the chubby for Bridgewater, and he did sell Manziel short, but that doesn't mean he doesn't know what he is talking about, it just means he has his own strong opinion.

You guys have to realize that no matter how smart us forum guys think we are, we still have other full time jobs that are not football related, and to assume you know more than every industry guy just because he doesn't agree with your own opinion is foolish. Instead we should be listening to all of these guys opinions, and soaking in as much knowledge as possible to form a cumulative opinion for ourselves; if you dismiss what someone has to say right off the bat there is a good chance you will be missing some valid information and points.
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Old 01-23-2014   #1194
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by matts290 View Post
You guys have to realize that no matter how smart us forum guys think we are, we still have other full time jobs that are not football related, and to assume you know more than every industry guy just because he doesn't agree with your own opinion is foolish. Instead we should be listening to all of these guys opinions, and soaking in as much knowledge as possible to form a cumulative opinion for ourselves; if you dismiss what someone has to say right off the bat there is a good chance you will be missing some valid information and points.
Good point, but what you have to consider is this organizations track record & for some of us its more than just entertainment, it develops into a love hate relationship where anything goes, opinions, frustrations, hopes & desires
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Old 01-23-2014   #1195
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Good point, but what you have to consider is this organizations track record & for some of us its more than just entertainment, it develops into a love hate relationship where anything goes, opinions, frustrations, hopes & desires
Oh yeah of course, I would say most people that take time to post frequently on these boards are more than your average "weekend warrior". And I agree, in it's short life our franchise has proven to be prone to bonehead moves, and as more than casual fans it is definitely upsetting and arouses some pretty intense passion. I am choosing to put faith that the new regime takes us in a new direction, but I know some don't feel that way.
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Old 01-23-2014   #1196
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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The point was simple...listening to this guy's "insight" at THIS date is likely to be as insightful as it was last year. I don't care who else was fooled, if he was a real talent evaluator, he wouldn't be so far off.
OK, so anyone who has ever missed on even one prospect ever, even pre-combine is completely incompetent at talent evalution and should never be listened to ever again? I think you just shut down the entire industry and every football message board. Every scout in the entire league 2 years ago is completely incompetent for not drafting Russell Wilson earlier (including the Seahawks - if they had a clue as to how good he would be they wouldn't have waited until the 3rd round).

Since Texian, mussop, and you have NEVER misjudged a prospect I will only listen to the 3 of you from now on.
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Old 01-23-2014   #1197
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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... for now you are just a drunk guy on the streets wildly throwing your arms in the air trying to fight people in passing.
That's a little harsh! He's just a Manziel fan. You seem to think he actually IS Manziel.
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Old 01-23-2014   #1198
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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You yourself said you didn't listen to the whole thing because you didn't like what you were hearing.

Don't get me wrong, if I have an opinion and have conviction for my stance I will defend it.

What I won't do is listen to the start of it, hear something I don't like, turn it off, attempt to discredit the person, then say they don't know anything even though I didn't listen to exactly what they said.

You sound to me like a scorned JFF lover more than anything screaming in a Teddy Bridgewater thread. I get it. You're hurt, you're upset, you wish more people would see things the way you do. Maybe they will after the combine, but for now you are just a drunk guy on the streets wildly throwing your arms in the air trying to fight people in passing.
I'm not hurt or upset about a hymning other than having wasted my time listening to that hack. I've said time and time again I have Bridgewater rated higher than Manziel. It's close but he's still who I would take right now.

I think it's you that is upset that anyone would question someone with the same opinion as yours.

I didn't listen to the whole thing. Didn't have to. Heard enough to realize this guy is just regurgitating internet trash. There were no detailed scouting points of emphasis. He didn't go into detail about either of their footwork or throwing motions or anything specific that seperated him from the common internet message board poster.

Saying Manziel just throws the ball up for grabs everytime there's pressure and that Bridgwater is a savant that never messes up and always calls the right play is more than just exaggerating for a professional scout its incompetence. He didn't even get the completion percentage against the blitz right for Bridgewater. He even exaggerated that.

If you like listening to trash like that listen away. I won't waste my time.
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Old 01-23-2014   #1199
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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OK, so anyone who has ever missed on even one prospect ever, even pre-combine is completely incompetent at talent evalution and should never be listened to ever again? I think you just shut down the entire industry and every football message board. Every scout in the entire league 2 years ago is completely incompetent for not drafting Russell Wilson earlier (including the Seahawks - if they had a clue as to how good he would be they wouldn't have waited until the 3rd round).

Since Texian, mussop, and you have NEVER misjudged a prospect I will only listen to the 3 of you from now on.
Everyone miss judges players. This is no exact science. I. Just hate when people try and pass themselves off as a pro scout and then spurt out a bunch of stupid BS.
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Old 01-23-2014   #1200
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Rep Power: 17795 Uncle Rico is a quality contributor and well respectedUncle Rico is a quality contributor and well respectedUncle Rico is a quality contributor and well respectedUncle Rico is a quality contributor and well respectedUncle Rico is a quality contributor and well respectedUncle Rico is a quality contributor and well respectedUncle Rico is a quality contributor and well respectedUncle Rico is a quality contributor and well respectedUncle Rico is a quality contributor and well respectedUncle Rico is a quality contributor and well respectedUncle Rico is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Us 'new guys' just need to come to terms that alot of the long time, more 'valued' contributors are just pissed off in general, and half the time they dont even know why, and they sure as hell wont take any logical input from 'newbs' on any topic.

The art of debate is lost on more than a few guys around here, especially outside of that inner ring. Use the ignore button to your benefit, it will save you time and stress.
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How much you wanna make a bet I can throw a football over them mountains?... Yeah... Coach woulda put me in fourth quarter, we would've been state champions. No doubt. No doubt in my mind.
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