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Old 01-12-2014   #981
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
I don't knowh how paste pics,but this had me googling. I saw rodgers,matt ryan,and terrific tom brady holding the ball in the same position as bridgewater. I've never heard anyone say the ball is low ether. Don't believe me, google those qbs holding the ball and you will get the image.
.
I acknowledged that most QBs do in fact hold the ball at their chest. Just like most of them aren't 6'5", it is less than ideal, and not conducive to a quick release. The same way that most NFL QBs are not 6'5" most QBs don't hold the ball high like they should.
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Old 01-12-2014   #982
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
TK I think most have made up their minds already .... no matter what evidence is presented , they aren't going to be swayed. They have their guy .... We're just
I'm not trying to sway anyone. Like you, I'm undecided & thinking out loud.

But it's going to get worse, the closer we get to the draft. This is the time myths are created.
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Old 01-12-2014   #983
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Everything you stated is true. When I mentioned that Bridgewater holds the ball low, most replies were flat out denial. Corrosion presented pictures, now you're rationalizing.

I never stated whether it was good or bad. Only that holding the ball the way he does has historically been considered "bad," considered "poor mechanics" as you stated it takes longer for the ball to come out.

I agree with you that most QBs hold the ball that way... though I believe (I have no quantifiable measurement) that Bridgewater holds it even lower than most (I'm talking inches).

The fact is, this is one more thing that he has to overcome. Not that he has to learn to hold the ball like Manziel, but the rest of his game has to compensate for it in some way. He'll have to make better decisions faster than Manziel would, because Manziel is already halfway through his motion, relatively speaking, than Bridgewater is when he decides to throw the ball.

Again, I agree with you that this is common in the NFL. But can you agree it is less than ideal? Which adds to the list of less than ideal qualities Bridgewater has to overcome.
  1. He's short.
    6'5" is "ideal" every inch shorter than 6'5" adds to the difficulty required to play from the pocket.
  2. He's skinny
    His durability is a concern
  3. He's got poor mechanics (he holds the ball low)
    It's less than ideal, adding time between the moment he decides to throw the ball & the time the ball leaves his hand.
  4. He's got poor mechanics (there's a hitch in his motion)
    I've seen it. It's a matter of time before someone else sees it To me, it's like he's patting the ball. It's not a lot but maybe it will tip off defenses that he's about to throw it. I don't know that to be the case, but I believe that is why we don't want our QBs to pat the ball
  5. He's got poor mechanics (poor footwork)
    This is also not a popular opinion right now, but I do not like it. It's not that it's sloppy, his feet go through the right motion, but I do not believe his reads are tied into his progressions, or where he plans to throw the ball.

I also think he's got most people fooled. I don't think he goes through his progressions well. I think, like Schaub, he reads the defense well presnap & has a good idea of where the ball is going to go. Not that he's already made up his mind, but that he's usually right about what the defense is doing & he already knows who "should" be open.

This is not hate on Bridgewater. None of this means he can not be a franchise QB in the NFL... just like most QBs hold the ball at their chest. But there is a reason prototypical is prototypical. It is the ideal. No one is ideal. Every QB who's ever played in the NFL has been less than ideal in some way or another. The question, for O'Brien, is can he work with him or not.

Manziel's got a list too. So does Bortles.
The only thing that can't be changed on your list is height. Do you like his decision making?
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Old 01-12-2014   #984
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

http://cippinonsports.com/wp-content...tbradypats.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Rodgers

http://taylorblitztimes.files.wordpr...ees_120106.jpg
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Old 01-12-2014   #985
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by powda View Post
The only thing that can't be changed on your list is height. Do you like his decision making?
There's nothing about the kid I don't like. The things on that list does not make him a bad QB, it makes him less than an ideal candidate to be a franchise QB. But most "franchise QBs" in the game today were less than ideal candidates. So everything on that list can be overcome.

His height most likely won't change. & his level of competition own't change before the combine. Those & that list only say he is not prototypical & makes it hard for me to want to spend a 1-1 on him.

But I've also said if he weighs in at 215lbs at the combine, I'd have no reservations about taking him with the #1 overall.

I like Manziel's mechanics better. I like Manziel's level of competition better. I like Manziel's play making & intangibles better. But I can't think of anything to make me want to draft him at 1-1. He played in the spread, he's only started for two years, he's much farther from ideal height/weight.

Well... there's level of talent in this draft & the fact that there will be a high demand for QBs. If I were in love with Manziel, I'd have to take him with 1-1. But I'm not.
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Old 01-12-2014   #986
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
TK I think most have made up their minds already .... no matter what evidence is presented , they aren't going to be swayed. They have their guy .... We're just
Pretty much.

But the end result, we all want the same thing, a franchise player we can win with and bring Houston it's first Super Bowl.
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Old 01-12-2014   #987
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by revan View Post
Pretty much.

But the end result, we all want the same thing, a franchise player we can win with and bring Houston it's first Super Bowl.
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Old 01-12-2014   #988
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

And apparently Teddy has bad mechanics now. Someone get the NFL scouts on the phone.
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Old 01-12-2014   #989
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by bOODRO87 View Post
Someone get the NFL scouts on the phone.
Wonder if scouts actually scout the players that are out there already in the limelight? It would seem to be a waste of time, since you can scout them at home on your computer. If I owned a team I would want the scout money I spent to be used to go out and find diamonds in the rough that no one has heard of.
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Old 01-12-2014   #990
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by LikeMike View Post
I am no expert on QB prospects, far from it. But I like to read what other people and souts are thinking.

Ive tried to find negative scouting reports on him - Ive tried to find reasons why not to take him number 1. I couldn`t finde anything. Some people were simply saying stuff like "he is no top 10 player" without elaborating.

Here are the negatives I could find:

- small frame and size (his biggest critizism. Still he is considerably taller than Wilson or Brees and is a pocket passer. Also don`t forget he is only 21 years old, he will fill out his frame with a NFL conditioning program)

- not elite long ball accuracy (this was already a rather small criticism)

- small hands (some people said he has huge hands - combine will have to show)

- bad competition (he excelled in games against good competition)

That`s it - that`s all the negatives I could find. On the plus side:

- elite accuracy
- elite football intelligence (basically the Peyton Manning of college football from a pure intelligence standpoint)
- elite motivation and love for the game
- elite at avoiding the rush
- great leader and teammate
- elite vision
- pro ready

We`ll see at the combine, but from what I have read so far, I don`t see why anyone would not want him at 1.1.
Wow! I'll take intelligence over pure raw physical ability any day!
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Old 01-12-2014   #991
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by bOODRO87 View Post
And apparently Teddy has bad mechanics now. Someone get the NFL scouts on the phone.
It's all relative.
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Old 01-12-2014   #992
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
Wonder if scouts actually scout the players that are out there already in the limelight? It would seem to be a waste of time, since you can scout them at home on your computer. If I owned a team I would want the scout money I spent to be used to go out and find diamonds in the rough that no one has heard of.
To a degree. The Chargers probably wish they had done more homework on Ryan Leaf, but he was considered a sure thing by the consensus.

Sometimes it helps to see a guy in person, even if you think you've already made up your mind.
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Old 01-12-2014   #993
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Everything you stated is true. When I mentioned that Bridgewater holds the ball low, most replies were flat out denial. Corrosion presented pictures, now you're rationalizing.

I never stated whether it was good or bad. Only that holding the ball the way he does has historically been considered "bad," considered "poor mechanics" as you stated it takes longer for the ball to come out.

I agree with you that most QBs hold the ball that way... though I believe (I have no quantifiable measurement) that Bridgewater holds it even lower than most (I'm talking inches).

The fact is, this is one more thing that he has to overcome. Not that he has to learn to hold the ball like Manziel, but the rest of his game has to compensate for it in some way. He'll have to make better decisions faster than Manziel would, because Manziel is already halfway through his motion, relatively speaking, than Bridgewater is when he decides to throw the ball.

Again, I agree with you that this is common in the NFL. But can you agree it is less than ideal? Which adds to the list of less than ideal qualities Bridgewater has to overcome.
  1. He's short.
    6'5" is "ideal" every inch shorter than 6'5" adds to the difficulty required to play from the pocket.
  2. He's skinny
    His durability is a concern
  3. He's got poor mechanics (he holds the ball low)
    It's less than ideal, adding time between the moment he decides to throw the ball & the time the ball leaves his hand.
  4. He's got poor mechanics (there's a hitch in his motion)
    I've seen it. It's a matter of time before someone else sees it To me, it's like he's patting the ball. It's not a lot but maybe it will tip off defenses that he's about to throw it. I don't know that to be the case, but I believe that is why we don't want our QBs to pat the ball
  5. He's got poor mechanics (poor footwork)
    This is also not a popular opinion right now, but I do not like it. It's not that it's sloppy, his feet go through the right motion, but I do not believe his reads are tied into his progressions, or where he plans to throw the ball.

I also think he's got most people fooled. I don't think he goes through his progressions well. I think, like Schaub, he reads the defense well presnap & has a good idea of where the ball is going to go. Not that he's already made up his mind, but that he's usually right about what the defense is doing & he already knows who "should" be open.

This is not hate on Bridgewater. None of this means he can not be a franchise QB in the NFL... just like most QBs hold the ball at their chest. But there is a reason prototypical is prototypical. It is the ideal. No one is ideal. Every QB who's ever played in the NFL has been less than ideal in some way or another. The question, for O'Brien, is can he work with him or not.

Manziel's got a list too. So does Bortles.
MSR

I'm on board with Bridgewater so far.

But I can't fault you for anything you're saying in this thread. Most people would complain and say that you're nitpicking. But with our history at QB, and with the top pick in the draft, I think we should nitpick all these guys to death.
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Old 01-12-2014   #994
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Put Eric Winston in the "not" Teddy camp. He doesn't buy into it from what he's seen.
lol, well if Winston doesn't believe in him, he obviously needs to be taken out of consideration right?

Michael Irvin loves him though, so maybe we should put him back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhsman View Post
Looks like my Mettenberger campaigned gained a little more traction.
I'm there with you man. We need to get him better weapons too though if we bring him in. I'm thinking Jahvid Best and Johnny Knox.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaL View Post
Not surprising that Eric wouldn't endorse pocket passer. Have you seen his pass blocking?


I also love these posts about drafting these imaginary QBs. What if we could go into a lab, take our favorite player, make them bigger, faster, stronger, and smarter. Yeah, that's the guy I draft. Oh really?
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Old 01-12-2014   #995
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Everything you stated is true. When I mentioned that Bridgewater holds the ball low, most replies were flat out denial. Corrosion presented pictures, now you're rationalizing.

I never stated whether it was good or bad. Only that holding the ball the way he does has historically been considered "bad," considered "poor mechanics" as you stated it takes longer for the ball to come out.

I agree with you that most QBs hold the ball that way... though I believe (I have no quantifiable measurement) that Bridgewater holds it even lower than most (I'm talking inches).

The fact is, this is one more thing that he has to overcome. Not that he has to learn to hold the ball like Manziel, but the rest of his game has to compensate for it in some way. He'll have to make better decisions faster than Manziel would, because Manziel is already halfway through his motion, relatively speaking, than Bridgewater is when he decides to throw the ball.

Again, I agree with you that this is common in the NFL. But can you agree it is less than ideal? Which adds to the list of less than ideal qualities Bridgewater has to overcome.
  1. He's short.
    6'5" is "ideal" every inch shorter than 6'5" adds to the difficulty required to play from the pocket.
  2. He's skinny
    His durability is a concern
  3. He's got poor mechanics (he holds the ball low)
    It's less than ideal, adding time between the moment he decides to throw the ball & the time the ball leaves his hand.
  4. He's got poor mechanics (there's a hitch in his motion)
    I've seen it. It's a matter of time before someone else sees it To me, it's like he's patting the ball. It's not a lot but maybe it will tip off defenses that he's about to throw it. I don't know that to be the case, but I believe that is why we don't want our QBs to pat the ball
  5. He's got poor mechanics (poor footwork)
    This is also not a popular opinion right now, but I do not like it. It's not that it's sloppy, his feet go through the right motion, but I do not believe his reads are tied into his progressions, or where he plans to throw the ball.

I also think he's got most people fooled. I don't think he goes through his progressions well. I think, like Schaub, he reads the defense well presnap & has a good idea of where the ball is going to go. Not that he's already made up his mind, but that he's usually right about what the defense is doing & he already knows who "should" be open.

This is not hate on Bridgewater. None of this means he can not be a franchise QB in the NFL... just like most QBs hold the ball at their chest. But there is a reason prototypical is prototypical. It is the ideal. No one is ideal. Every QB who's ever played in the NFL has been less than ideal in some way or another. The question, for O'Brien, is can he work with him or not.

Manziel's got a list too. So does Bortles.
.

By your definition, yes it is less than ideal. Every team wants that 6-5 230 lb prototype of a qb with a howitzer for an arm...but this is paralysis by analysis.

It's 1 thing to say his mechanics need a little work, its a completely different thing to say that his mechanics are "poor"...i can't agree with you there. When going thru progressions, the head more than anything is what tells you how they're going thru them. Even then you still cant tell sometimes b/c of how routes are stacked...you might have 2-3 guys in the same general area to where he may not have to turn his head much. The feet only really come into play when you're actually getting ready to throw the ball. In that regard, the kid is damn good at that. He almost never throws the ball off balance. So im not sure what you're looking at when you say his footwork is poor.

I also have never agreed with the notion that holding the ball up high in a static position like that is "good mechanics" for throwing a football....It "encourages" good mechanics b/c it helps position the arm to naturally bring the ball over the shoulder and it helps speed up the release, but holding it like that isn't natural in and of itself for throwing a football or any kind ball for that matter. I think that's the reason you dont see more guys in the NFL stick with throwing it like that after they leave college.

Look I'm not denying he's got a list....every kid coming out of college has a list, even the Mannings and Lucks...I just think that you're overplaying your hand a bit. i think his biggest issues are weight and strength which will be easily corrected Once he undertakes and nfl strength and conditioing program. Imo, the hitch you're seeing in his throwing motion is related to his overall strength. It's him "loading up" to generate the power/ velocity he needs to get the ball where it needs to be. Its sort of the same thing you see with young baseball batters when they see a ball they like and try to knock the cover off of it. Instead they either miss the ball completely or foul it off. What's happened is that little extra "umph" they took at the beginning of their swing to generate all that power threw off the timing of their swing. I also think the pro style offense thing is overplayed as well. Mark Sanchez and every other USC qb over the last 8 years played in pro style offense...it means next to nothing on the next level.

Obviously, if BoB thinks any of this stuff is a deal breaker then we'll select another guy...i just think he's the best prospect...
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Old 01-12-2014   #996
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
.

By your definition, yes it is less than ideal. Every team wants that 6-5 230 lb prototype of a qb with a howitzer for an arm...but this is paralysis by analysis.

It's 1 thing to say his mechanics need a little work, its a completely different thing to say that his mechanics are "poor"...i can't agree with you there. When going thru progressions, the head more than anything is what tells you how they're going thru them. Even then you still cant tell sometimes b/c of how routes are stacked...you might have 2-3 guys in the same general area to where he may not have to turn his head much. The feet only really come into play when you're actually getting ready to throw the ball. In that regard, the kid is damn good at that. He almost never throws the ball off balance. So im not sure what you're looking at when you say his footwork is poor.

I also have never agreed with the notion that holding the ball up high in a static position like that is "good mechanics" for throwing a football....It "encourages" good mechanics b/c it helps position the arm to naturally bring the ball over the shoulder and it helps speed up the release, but holding it like that isn't natural in and of itself for throwing a football or any kind ball for that matter. I think that's the reason you dont see more guys in the NFL stick with throwing it like that after they leave college.

Look I'm not denying he's got a list....every kid coming out of college has a list, even the Mannings and Lucks...I just think that you're overplaying your hand a bit. i think his biggest issues are weight and strength which will be easily corrected Once he undertakes and nfl strength and conditioing program. Imo, the hitch you're seeing in his throwing motion is related to his overall strength. It's him "loading up" to generate the power/ velocity he needs to get the ball where it needs to be. Its sort of the same thing you see with young baseball batters when they see a ball they like and try to knock the cover off of it. Instead they either miss the ball completely or foul it off. What's happened is that little extra "umph" they took at the beginning of their swing to generate all that power threw off the timing of their swing. I also think the pro style offense thing is overplayed as well. Mark Sanchez and every other USC qb over the last 8 years played in pro style offense...it means next to nothing on the next level.

Obviously, if BoB thinks any of this stuff is a deal breaker then we'll select another guy...i just think he's the best prospect...


Great response. I tried to come up with something as on point and kind and all I came up with sounded like a rant so thanks for posting that.
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Old 01-12-2014   #997
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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The weight is a lesser concern for me. 8 1/2" hands, short arms, a 50 MPH are items that could drop Fat Teddy out of the Top 10 or even Rd 1 for me. Same items would also apply to Bortles, Manziel and all QBs for that matter.
Would you like to provide something tangible to support the 8.5" hands?

Not that small hands are bad, but that he DOES have small hands, cause I've asked this in the past and the only thing ever shown was some nobodies on a sideline's speculation tweet, whereas everyone that knows him and works with him has said this is entirely false.

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Reggie Bush was thought to be too small to carry the load & take the punishment to be an NFL RB. Though he has proven to be a productive player in the NFL, his history in the league has shown to warrant such concerns.

The QB position is the most important position on the field. You can not afford to lose him for several games a year.
Do QBs get hit nearly as much as RBs? There is a reason a GOOD RBs life in the NFL is substantially shorter than a good QBs.
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Old 01-13-2014   #998
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Would you like to provide something tangible to support the 8.5" hands?

Not that small hands are bad, but that he DOES have small hands, cause I've asked this in the past and the only thing ever shown was some nobodies on a sideline's speculation tweet, whereas everyone that knows him and works with him has said this is entirely false.
We will find out at the combine , they'll measure everything from his hands & feet to the pimples on his ass .... For now , its nothing but rumor , but if true it is another questionmark on an already questionable prospect.



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Do QBs get hit nearly as much as RBs? There is a reason a GOOD RBs life in the NFL is substantially shorter than a good QBs.
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Old 01-13-2014   #999
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Teddy went to Louisville at 170 lbs and gained 50 lbs his first year .
And if I was on a College football team I'd be 6'5" and 400 lbs of muscle. College Programs deceive having learned at the foot of the carnival industry.
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Old 01-13-2014   #1000
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Really? OMG, I had no idea that Mr. Physics applied to QBs too! Does it apply to Santa Claus as well?

I have already stated that I get that muscle helps to stave off injury. However, I have also stated that he has not missed much time to injury in his career and is young (which means he has a lot of time to add muscle mass, since we are speaking like simpletons).

To the bold- this is getting to my point. If people's biggest concern is his weight, then they should be running to the podium.
The key is that he has not already added the muscle so there might be some concern about his workout habits. Concern doesn't mean rejection, it only means the coaches have to do their due diligence and find out why before draft day.

The true decision makers are busy putting the coaching staff together and deciding what kind of offenses and defenses they will be putting together with the personnel we have, including which are likely to be ready to go. Only then will their attention turn to which positions need improvement through either the draft or FA. First,they have to decide on who will be healthy and who will be retained. ie Cushing, Manning, Williams and eight others Healthy? Will the Ninja return?

What is our most pressing need? Is it QB or something else? Do we go BPA or Need within reason? How expansive is reason? What trade offers are available and are they significant enough to make?

If we get to GB1-1, who is the Best of the Best, not just for next year, but for the next fifteen. I'd be interested to see BO'Bs evaluation of our current QBs compared to those on the board. Do any of them have the traits that he looks for, which might not have been fully utilized? Was the concern over what to avoid so pervasive that they were afraid to do what they could? Or did they just lack the skills, either from the start or from diminished ability due to injury?

I certainly do not have answers, just idle speculation. But I do see the abilities of Smith in working around Cap issues and know with more than idle speculation that he is a major asset to our team because I know Contracts and Budgets from a professional perspective.
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