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Old 04-26-2014   #2541
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Brees has had the best career of any 2001 draftee, including his future HOF teammate Tomlinson.
I know it wasn't your intention, but I can't think of a better argument to draft an elite talent at the top of this draft & select our QB in the 2nd round. Not that I think we can hit on a QB the way San Diego did, but because this QB class is full of guys missing one or two attributes of an elite QB prospect & only a handful of truly elite prospects at other positions.

& I'm not opposed to trading back into the first to get our guy either.
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Old 04-26-2014   #2542
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Was that pre or post Bridgewater pro day? Mayock has been fairly consistent in his post pro day Bridgewater disappointment. In the article Mayock explains that. Pre pro day TB was his #1 QB.
...And he used to always say that you have to go back a look at the tape and Pro Days and the Combine don't really mean that much.

I'm tending to believe that Mayock is trending as "just another talking head". At one time I was all in on his opinion. Now, not so much.

JB nailed it here:
Quote:
Mayock seems to becoming more of a talking parrot than actually evaluating talent(.)
I added the period as JB's period button seems to not be working as of late but I agree with his statement 100%.
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Old 04-26-2014   #2543
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by drs23 View Post
...And he used to always say that you have to go back a look at the tape and Pro Days and the Combine don't really mean that much.

I'm tending to believe that Mayock is trending as "just another talking head". At one time I was all in on his opinion. Now, not so much.

JB nailed it here:

I added the period as JB's period button seems to not be working as of late but I agree with his statement 100%.
Mayock is as good as he's ever been. In this case it just happens that he's disagreeing with you. So you can say Mayock probably got it right and I am wrong or this time you think Mayock got it wrong. For me it's, in Mayock I trust 98% of the time.

In this case Mayock makes the point that he's never seen a top QB have such a bad pro day. Mayock makes a point that you have to be standing on the sideline and watch the QB throw the ball live to judge his ball speed and velocity. This make sense to me, for example sitting behind home plate watching a pitcher live, a 95 MPH fast ball is whole lot faster than any 95 MPH fastball you see on tv.
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Old 04-26-2014   #2544
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by JB View Post
He had quite a different take on Game Changers. Can't find the link but he said that TB was the most pro ready and his only concern was his frame.


Mayock seems to becoming more of a talking parrot than actually evaluating talent
This 100%. Mayock is the same guy that was killing Clowney at the combine...but changed his tune at his pro day, slobbering all over his scrotum.
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Old 04-26-2014   #2545
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Mayock is as good as he's ever been. In this case it just happens that he's disagreeing with you. So you can say Mayock probably got it right and I am wrong or this time you think Mayock got it wrong. For me it's, in Mayock I trust 98% of the time.

In this case Mayock makes the point that he's never seen a top QB have such a bad pro day. Mayock makes a point that you have to be standing on the sideline and watch the QB throw the ball live to judge his ball speed and velocity. This make sense to me, for example sitting behind home plate watching a pitcher live, a 95 MPH fast ball is whole lot faster than any 95 MPH fastball you see on tv.
He said matt ryan and cam newton pro day was brutal. He liked ryan because he's a BC product. He was also selling Gabbert as if he was something special. Its his opinion as a lot of people. Corey Chavous said Mack is hands down the best player in the draft. He said he even plays hard vs sorry teams and his number translate on the field.
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Old 04-26-2014   #2546
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Mayock is as good as he's ever been. In this case it just happens that he's disagreeing with you. So you can say Mayock probably got it right and I am wrong or this time you think Mayock got it wrong. For me it's, in Mayock I trust 98% of the time.

In this case Mayock makes the point that he's never seen a top QB have such a bad pro day. Mayock makes a point that you have to be standing on the sideline and watch the QB throw the ball live to judge his ball speed and velocity. This make sense to me, for example sitting behind home plate watching a pitcher live, a 95 MPH fast ball is whole lot faster than any 95 MPH fastball you see on tv.
Pro days are dumb and Jamarcus Russel proves it. He had the "best pro day ever" and you see how that played out.


And the comparison to Aaron Rodgers is BY FAR the best.
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Old 04-27-2014   #2547
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Mayock is as good as he's ever been.
How good is that exactly?

Link
Quote:
Mike Mayocks Top 5 Draft Prospects by Position (2011)

Quarterback:
*1. Blaine Gabbert, Missouri
2. Jake Locker, Washington
*3. Cam Newton, Auburn
*4. Ryan Mallett, Arkansas
T-5. Andy Dalton, TCU
T-5. Ricky Stanzi, Iowa
T-5. Colin Kaepernick, Nevada
T-5. Pat Devlin, Delaware

Defensive End:
*1. DaQuan Bowers, Clemson
2. Adrian Clayborn, Iowa
3. Aldon Smith, Missouri
4. Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue
*T-5. J.J. Watt, Wisconsin
*T-5. Robert Quinn, North Carolina
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Old 04-27-2014   #2548
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
How good is that exactly?

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seriously, why are 4 guys "T-5"? is he giving himself room to come back and say the he had ________ in his top 5 the year he was drafted?
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Old 04-27-2014   #2549
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Mayock is as good as he's ever been. In this case it just happens that he's disagreeing with you. So you can say Mayock probably got it right and I am wrong or this time you think Mayock got it wrong. For me it's, in Mayock I trust 98% of the time.

In this case Mayock makes the point that he's never seen a top QB have such a bad pro day. Mayock makes a point that you have to be standing on the sideline and watch the QB throw the ball live to judge his ball speed and velocity. This make sense to me, for example sitting behind home plate watching a pitcher live, a 95 MPH fast ball is whole lot faster than any 95 MPH fastball you see on tv.
I like Mayock and I trust him. But I believe he is overvalueing prodays. He is saying prodays basically don`t count - but he is acting like they are the most important factor. The way he changed his mind either means, he did a very poor job of evaluating Bridgewater before, or that he uses the proday as his primary scouting tool.

The rankings posted by disaacks show that as well. Gabbert had a phenomenal proday, his gametape wasn`t that good.

I am not saying TB is a can`t miss guy. And I agree that his proday is a reason to be concerned. But I am saying this flip floping by Mayock doesn`t make him look good.
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Old 04-27-2014   #2550
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by LikeMike View Post
I like Mayock and I trust him. But I believe he is overvalueing prodays. He is saying prodays basically don`t count - but he is acting like they are the most important factor. The way he changed his mind either means, he did a very poor job of evaluating Bridgewater before, or that he uses the proday as his primary scouting tool.

The rankings posted by disaacks show that as well. Gabbert had a phenomenal proday, his gametape wasn`t that good.

I am not saying TB is a can`t miss guy. And I agree that his proday is a reason to be concerned. But I am saying this flip floping by Mayock doesn`t make him look good.
Pro Days and the Combine are important, more so than most give them credit. If they weren't then teams wouldn't be spending the Tens of Thousands of dollars they do to attend them. Good news isn't really as important as bad news because good news is what is expected. Bad performance, bad metrics and bad news can have devastating results because they're NOT expected.

If you spend money and time to go watch a top pitching prospect workout and your expecting to see a 90 MPH fastball and all you see is an 80 MPH fastball, that's a BIG disappointment. This is very similar to what happened at Teddy's Pro Day.
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Old 04-27-2014   #2551
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Yeah, you see a guy in ideal conditions and can take a look at his technique up close. I get that. Seeing stuff like a hitch in the throwing motion, bad footwork or missing throwing speed are important.

But those things should also be on gametape. Yeah, you are not there and don`t see them upclose, but a good scout would see most of those problems on tape.

Jamarcus Russell had the historical best proday of Mayocks career. A guy that could do all the throws. And maybe the worst #1 pick of all time.

Some guys are better when 300 pound men are running at them, some are worse. TBs best traits always were the mental aspects of his game. His vision, his quick analysis of the defense and his decision making. Those things don`t show up at the pro day (and those are things that cause several "proday-stars" to fail (see Gabbert, Locker, Russell...). His arm strength was always at least a mild concern, so was his deep ball accuracy. Those problems were there and well documented before the proday.

Yeah, it might`ve been shocking that these problems were still there at his proday, since most athletes script their proday so that they look good. But those deficiencies are not news. When you take Teddy you know, that you don`t want him to throw deep, contested balls anytime soon. He needs coaching there. You also might be concerned with him throwing into tight windows. But you can also probably trust Teddy to know his own deficiencies and do the right decisions. With Teddy you get a gamemanager, that rarely does mistakes, with the potential to be more.
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Old 04-27-2014   #2552
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Matt Miller ‏@nfldraftscout 1m
I've actually heard from a few NFL people about Bridgewater having skinny knees. Fear it leaves him unprotected to hits there. @RobKramar
:vincepal m:

Sadly it is a real tweet
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Old 04-27-2014   #2553
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by LikeMike View Post
Yeah, you see a guy in ideal conditions and can take a look at his technique up close. I get that. Seeing stuff like a hitch in the throwing motion, bad footwork or missing throwing speed are important.

But those things should also be on gametape. Yeah, you are not there and don`t see them upclose, but a good scout would see most of those problems on tape.

Jamarcus Russell had the historical best proday of Mayocks career. A guy that could do all the throws. And maybe the worst #1 pick of all time.

Some guys are better when 300 pound men are running at them, some are worse. TBs best traits always were the mental aspects of his game. His vision, his quick analysis of the defense and his decision making. Those things don`t show up at the pro day (and those are things that cause several "proday-stars" to fail (see Gabbert, Locker, Russell...). His arm strength was always at least a mild concern, so was his deep ball accuracy. Those problems were there and well documented before the proday.

Yeah, it might`ve been shocking that these problems were still there at his proday, since most athletes script their proday so that they look good. But those deficiencies are not news. When you take Teddy you know, that you don`t want him to throw deep, contested balls anytime soon. He needs coaching there. You also might be concerned with him throwing into tight windows. But you can also probably trust Teddy to know his own deficiencies and do the right decisions. With Teddy you get a gamemanager, that rarely does mistakes, with the potential to be more.
You keep making the same argument so many others do, Russell and others who were big time disappointments had good pro days. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IS EXPECTED FROM ANY POTENTIAL DRAFT PROSPECT. HAVING A GOOD PRO DAY. A VERY BAD PRO DAY IS NOT.

The BIG surprise is the player having a very bad, terrible pro day and NOT having a very good pro day AS EXPECTED.

As I've explained several times before and anyone knows who has stood on a sideline and watched a football game or practice, the game is more intense, hits are harder, players are faster, passes have more zip than what you can see watching TV or on tape. Some assume scouts can see this sitting in the stands and on tape, they can't, and this is exactly why they travel to see the player up close and personal. Trust but Verify!

Standing next to a bull pen watching Billy Wagner throw a 100 MPH fastball has a much bigger WOW factor and is more impressive than anything you can see on TV. On TV you can't tell the difference in Wagner's 85 MPH change up and his 100 MPH fastball. Standing next to the bullpen it's a piece of cake.
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Old 04-27-2014   #2554
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Like I said, I get it. Prodays are supposed to be good. When they are, nothing changes, when they are not, that`s a red flag. Yet guys like Carr seem to really profit from their proday, while a guy like Bridgewater really falls deep.

Like I said, those red flags were there before and a good scout should`ve picked up on them. And when a proday is really bad, there should be questions on why that is. In the end it is only a short spotlight. Every QB has bad days. I know you don`t want that in your franchise QB on the most important workout of his life - but young guys have a lot to learn, and that may result into a bad day.

There is plenty of tape on TB. Id much rather have a scout point out the deficiencies on game tape, than only on his proday. And then try to come to a thorough and in depth analysis.
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Old 04-27-2014   #2555
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by LikeMike View Post
Like I said, I get it. Prodays are supposed to be good. When they are, nothing changes, when they are not, that`s a red flag. Yet guys like Carr seem to really profit from their proday, while a guy like Bridgewater really falls deep.

Like I said, those red flags were there before and a good scout should`ve picked up on them. And when a proday is really bad, there should be questions on why that is. In the end it is only a short spotlight. Every QB has bad days. I know you don`t want that in your franchise QB on the most important workout of his life - but young guys have a lot to learn, and that may result into a bad day.

There is plenty of tape on TB. Id much rather have a scout point out the deficiencies on game tape, than only on his proday. And then try to come to a thorough and in depth analysis.
Well I'm not a good scout, yet for the last six months I have questioned TB's arm strength. I'm on record, months ago, saying that his deep ball has a tendency to float and some of his passes over 20 yards were INTs in the NFL. TBs Pro Day verified some of my concerns. It appears it did so for many others also.

The questions about TBs arm strength were being discussed in season. However those who had fallen in love with TB made excuses for the accusations or simply dismissed them because it was something they didn't want to hear. People were pointing out questions about Teddy's arm before his Pro Day, many were not listening.
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Old 04-27-2014   #2556
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Yeah, that`s exactly what I meant. Those concerns were there before and out in the open. Its not a surprise that Teddy has a problem with arm strength and long ball accuracy. Its on game tape. Its something Mayock has seen before. Back then those concerns weren`t a gamebreaker. Coaching could improve that. And QBs make a living off of 5-15yds throws in the NFL and Teddy is pretty good to elite at that range. So that`s why he was the top QB on his list, his football IQ, vision, decision making, pocket presence, and short to medium throw accuracy.

Like I said, either his scouting on him was considerably of before, or he is overvaluing prodays.
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Old 04-27-2014   #2557
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by LikeMike View Post
Yeah, that`s exactly what I meant. Those concerns were there before and out in the open. Its not a surprise that Teddy has a problem with arm strength and long ball accuracy. Its on game tape. Its something Mayock has seen before. Back then those concerns weren`t a gamebreaker. Coaching could improve that. And QBs make a living off of 5-15yds throws in the NFL and Teddy is pretty good to elite at that range. So that`s why he was the top QB on his list, his football IQ, vision, decision making, pocket presence, and short to medium throw accuracy.

Like I said, either his scouting on him was considerably of before, or he is overvaluing prodays.
In Mayock's defense, he really doesn't begin his scouting and evaluations until after the college football season is over. Mayock's NFL & Notre Dame announcing schedule keeps him fairly busy and prevents him doing much scouting and evaluation work. That's why you see a lot of changes in his Top 5 by position each and every year the closer you get to the draft. If it's fair for all NFL teams not to complete their final draft boards a week or two before the draft, after the Combine and Pro Days. Then the same is also fair for Mayock.
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Old 04-27-2014   #2558
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
It's a fair comparison in projecting what Bridgewater could become. But not even close to how they came out of college. Garcia wasn't remotely the QB that Bridgewater is.

I think Russell Wilson and Drew Brees are very fair comparisons to Bridgewater coming out of college. Very productive, lots of exepience, undersized. Neither Wilson or Brees were 1st round picks. But in retrospect, they should have been. Brees has had the best career of any 2001 draftee, including his future HOF teammate Tomlinson. In a re-draft of 2012, Wilson would hands down be the 3rd pick behind Luck and RGIII. And a case can be made that he's been the most productive and efficient of the 3, thus far.
Nope Wilson and Brees had much stronger arms.
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Old 04-27-2014   #2559
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

"He's made some nice touch throws on tape. He's mobile. He's not the runner that Manziel is, but he's athletic. He's got good feet to get away from the rush. He's just not a real big guy. (Scouts) that have worked him out are a little concerned because they don't see the velocity, the big arm that wows you." Former NFL personnel director
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Old 04-27-2014   #2560
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Quote:
Originally Posted by LikeMike View Post
Yeah, you see a guy in ideal conditions and can take a look at his technique up close. I get that. Seeing stuff like a hitch in the throwing motion, bad footwork or missing throwing speed are important.

But those things should also be on gametape. Yeah, you are not there and don`t see them upclose, but a good scout would see most of those problems on tape.

Jamarcus Russell had the historical best proday of Mayocks career. A guy that could do all the throws. And maybe the worst #1 pick of all time.

Some guys are better when 300 pound men are running at them, some are worse. TBs best traits always were the mental aspects of his game.
Why did Jamarcus fail? Was it because he couldn't make all the throws? Was it because the game tape showed he folded with 300lb men at his feet? Did his game tape show that he was a crappy QB?

I don't watch a lot of college football, but when special players have special games, I generally find a way to catch a few games. I watched Jamarcus play... & he was pretty good. I thought definitely worthy of the #1 overall.

The reason he failed, I think, is because he is one of those guys you shouldn't give millions of dollars to in advance & expect him to show up for work on time.

That's something they should have figured out in interviews, or when they vetted him.
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Originally Posted by LikeMike View Post
His vision, his quick analysis of the defense and his decision making.

His arm strength was always at least a mild concern, so was his deep ball accuracy. Those problems were there and well documented before the proday.
I agree. Those problems were identified well before his pro-day. But I believe the media underestimated how his good qualities stacked up against the competition in light of his bad qualities.

Contrary to popular belief, Bridgewater is not the only QB who has demonstrated the ability to play well from the pocket in a prosystem, controlling the game from the LOS & reading/manipulating defenses.

When the coaches started their evaluations & the media started reporting what the coaches were seeing, they had to make corrections... & the bad pro-day was a good excuse to do so. I think the media is over doing it with their 2nd round talk, but I believe what OB said from day one. There isn't a lot of separation between a large group of these guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LikeMike View Post
Yeah, it might`ve been shocking that these problems were still there at his proday, since most athletes script their proday so that they look good. But those deficiencies are not news. When you take Teddy you know, that you don`t want him to throw deep, contested balls anytime soon. He needs coaching there. You also might be concerned with him throwing into tight windows. But you can also probably trust Teddy to know his own deficiencies and do the right decisions. With Teddy you get a gamemanager, that rarely does mistakes, with the potential to be more.
Sounds like Aj McCarron to me. Why spend a 1st round pick when you can get the "same guy" with a 4th.
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