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Old 08-21-2013   #481
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Who here thinks that Yates looked really good in his time vs Miami? I do.
I think TJ looked just as good as a #3 QB vs Miami as Case did vs Minnesota as #3.
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Old 08-21-2013   #482
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Who here thinks that Yates looked really good in his time vs Miami? I do.
All the QBs played fairly well.
None were perfect, but they were effective with the respective group they ran.

When the scheme helps the QB such that the receiver gets wide open, the QB still needs to make the correct read and a good throw, but by no mean can they be called great (see Rosenfels' reference.)

That's not to say Yates didn't have a couple of good plays by himself.
It was a solid effort by all three QBs.
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Old 08-21-2013   #483
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Brady went to two more though and was a helmet catch away from winning one of those. And Rodgers was balling. He is elite and carried that team. We saw what he did the year after that. Detroit and Jacksonville were weak teams and showed signs of the fall of the team after those games. I remember people saying that even though those games were won, they still felt like losses. Then the losses actually came. I don't think we can look to Matt to carry us against elite teams when we have to in the playoffs. Hope we are firing on our other cylinders.
I think the goal is to build a team, like the Steelers with Roethlisberger when they won their SBs, that don't rely on the QB having to be "on". Roethlisberger had bad days and they won; Peyton is notorious for having bad days in the playoffs and he won when his team didn't rely on him. I mean, it's nice if your relatively average QB can catch fire and get on a hot streak (like Flacco, or Eli) and help drive you to the SB but there's no QB around that can win a SB without a bunch of other pieces in place. If they could, Brady and Peyton would have won every SB the last 12 years.
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Old 08-21-2013   #484
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

This is my conundrum:

After the first Minny PS game, I felt as though if Case were forced to be playing with the dregs, that he would probably be PS-stashable again this year. He looked decent, but I wasn't really convinced that the rest of the NFL would really want to take on a guy like that.

However after the second PS game against Miami has now happened I have to say that he looked just as good if not better, than when he did against Minny's garbage department. However, Yates looked pretty good against Miami's garbage so now what do you have. You have two guys with basically identical stats throughout pre-season:

Yates: 20 for 30, 235 yards, 66.7% comp, 7.8 yards/att, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 112.5 rating
Keenum: 24 for 36, 275 yards, 66.7 comp, 7.6 yards/att, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 108 rating

So now it just seems like these guys are really close or am I being some kind of Yates homer here?
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Old 08-21-2013   #485
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
This is my conundrum:

After the first Minny PS game, I felt as though if Case were forced to be playing with the dregs, that he would probably be PS-stashable again this year. He looked decent, but I wasn't really convinced that the rest of the NFL would really want to take on a guy like that.

However after the second PS game against Miami has now happened I have to say that he looked just as good if not better, than when he did against Minny's garbage department. However, Yates looked pretty good against Miami's garbage so now what do you have. You have two guys with basically identical stats throughout pre-season:

Yates: 20 for 30, 235 yards, 66.7% comp, 7.8 yards/att, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 112.5 rating
Keenum: 24 for 36, 275 yards, 66.7 comp, 7.6 yards/att, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 108 rating

So now it just seems like these guys are really close or am I being some kind of Yates homer here?
I'm not worried about it.
It's a nice problem to have.
Good competition always make you strive harder.

The situation will solve itself; I would rather look at other positions (if I was the GM and the coaches) to try to weigh the pluses and minuses of keeping this certain OLB or this certain RB and so forth.
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Old 08-21-2013   #486
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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This is my conundrum:

Yates: 20 for 30, 235 yards, 66.7% comp, 7.8 yards/att, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 112.5 rating
Keenum: 24 for 36, 275 yards, 66.7 comp, 7.6 yards/att, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 108 rating

So now it just seems like these guys are really close or am I being some kind of Yates homer here?
Both of them seem to be able to handle what they were given, with relative ease. However, I still think Tj took two sacks that he shouldn't have.

But I don't know how much of the playbook they are being trusted with & that's most likely how Kubiak will make up his mind. For all we know, Yates had 45% of the book while Keenum had 80%. Even though the numbers look similar, Keenum would be way ahead.
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Old 08-21-2013   #487
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Both of them seem to be able to handle what they were given, with relative ease. However, I still think Tj took two sacks that he shouldn't have.

But I don't know how much of the playbook they are being trusted with & that's most likely how Kubiak will make up his mind. For all we know, Yates had 45% of the book while Keenum had 80%. Even though the numbers look similar, Keenum would be way ahead.
Outside of the starters I'm going to say everyone is running the same plays.

You have more than a qb on the field. Yates nor keenum is out there running a bunch of advanced plays that their wr's, rb's and OL can't handle. They've both run with about the same personnel. It's not all about them when it comes to the plays that are and aren't being run.

Every year, you scale back and start jover anyways. Maybe the starters that have been here for a while can run a play that they haven't practiced since late last year, but even if Schaub is the qb with third stringers you wouldn't expect him to be running any play.

They are all more than likely running what they've worked on from this year. You expect everyone that's been here since camp to know the plays they've been working on.
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Old 08-21-2013   #488
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

I wish we had this problem at every position.
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Old 08-21-2013   #489
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
This is my conundrum:

After the first Minny PS game, I felt as though if Case were forced to be playing with the dregs, that he would probably be PS-stashable again this year. He looked decent, but I wasn't really convinced that the rest of the NFL would really want to take on a guy like that.

However after the second PS game against Miami has now happened I have to say that he looked just as good if not better, than when he did against Minny's garbage department. However, Yates looked pretty good against Miami's garbage so now what do you have. You have two guys with basically identical stats throughout pre-season:

Yates: 20 for 30, 235 yards, 66.7% comp, 7.8 yards/att, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 112.5 rating
Keenum: 24 for 36, 275 yards, 66.7 comp, 7.6 yards/att, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 108 rating

So now it just seems like these guys are really close or am I being some kind of Yates homer here?
they may look similar on paper but Keenum has less balls batted down, Keenum also had a clutch throw on 4th, not to mention Yates has had way more experience than Case but Case shows more excitement, inspires the team better, shows quicker and faster releases, seems to have better control of the pocket and footwork.

I do want to see these last games though.
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Old 08-21-2013   #490
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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they may look similar on paper but Keenum has less balls batted down, Keenum also had a clutch throw on 4th, not to mention Yates has had way more experience than Case but Case shows more excitement, inspires the team better, shows quicker and faster releases, seems to have better control of the pocket and footwork.
Go Coogs right?
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Old 08-21-2013   #491
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Go Coogs right?
go Texans and coogs! lol
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Old 08-21-2013   #492
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
this is my conundrum:

After the first minny ps game, i felt as though if case were forced to be playing with the dregs, that he would probably be ps-stashable again this year. He looked decent, but i wasn't really convinced that the rest of the nfl would really want to take on a guy like that.

However after the second ps game against miami has now happened i have to say that he looked just as good if not better, than when he did against minny's garbage department. However, yates looked pretty good against miami's garbage so now what do you have. You have two guys with basically identical stats throughout pre-season:

Yates: 20 for 30, 235 yards, 66.7% comp, 7.8 yards/att, 2 tds, 0 ints, 112.5 rating
keenum: 24 for 36, 275 yards, 66.7 comp, 7.6 yards/att, 2 tds, 0 ints, 108 rating

so now it just seems like these guys are really close or am i being some kind of yates homer here?
duh...
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Old 08-21-2013   #493
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Who here thinks that Yates looked really good in his time vs Miami? I do.
I do, as well. I've always pulled for Yates since the 2011 season where he showed a lot of guts taking the reins after the Schaub/Leinart injuries. I couldn't pass him on the depth chart from what I've seen thus far in the preseason. By the same token, I couldn't waive Keenum based upon what I've seen in the preseason. They are both 2 of the 40 players on this team, much less top 53.

I have to give a lot of credit to Kubiak. We've been waiting for Kubiak to get an opportunity to develop a young QB from the ground up. Now he has two, and he has done a heck of job with these kids. Mike Holmgren once had a reputation for developing young QBs and creating trade value with them (Hasselbeck, Brunell, Brooks to name a few). It's possible Kubiak could do the same here given the chance. I think they should draft a QB at some point every year.
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Old 08-21-2013   #494
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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I do, as well. I've always pulled for Yates since the 2011 season where he showed a lot of guts taking the reins after the Schaub/Leinart injuries. I couldn't pass him on the depth chart from what I've seen thus far in the preseason. By the same token, I couldn't waive Keenum based upon what I've seen in the preseason. They are both 2 of the 40 players on this team, much less top 53.

I have to give a lot of credit to Kubiak. We've been waiting for Kubiak to get an opportunity to develop a young QB from the ground up. Now he has two, and he has done a heck of job with these kids. Mike Holmgren once had a reputation for developing young QBs and creating trade value with them (Hasselbeck, Brunell, Brooks to name a few). It's possible Kubiak could do the same here given the chance. I think they should draft a QB at some point every year.
I don't think that we should be quick to give Kubiak the credit for Keenum's development. He has shown his ability in both high school and college. Keenum is a winner with or without Kubiak's development.
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Old 08-21-2013   #495
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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I don't think that we should be quick to give Kubiak the credit for Keenum's development. He has shown his ability in both high school and college. Keenum is a winner with or without Kubiak's development.
Lots of winners in the college ranks can't make it in the NFL.
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Old 08-21-2013   #496
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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I don't think that we should be quick to give Kubiak the credit for Keenum's development. He has shown his ability in both high school and college. Keenum is a winner with or without Kubiak's development.
I watched a lot of Keenum in college, also. He's a baller. But if you look at his footwork and play action skills from taking the ball under center, that's all Texans WCO. He didn't have that at UH. He also never had to play against a base defense in college (that's a quote from Keenum). Clearly, Keenum has developed new skills since coming to the Texans.

I'm not suggesting that Keenum isn't sharp and couldn't have developed skills under another coach. But, he did develop these skills under Kubiak. I'm not Gary's biggest fan or a member in good standing in the Sunshine Club. But, give credit where credit is due.
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Old 08-21-2013   #497
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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I'm not Gary's biggest fan or a member in good standing in the Sunshine Club. But, give credit where credit is due.
Yep. Whatever warts Kubiak may have, he's a good QB coach for sure.
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Old 08-21-2013   #498
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Lots of winners in the college ranks can't make it in the NFL.
There's also a growing number of UDFA's excelling in the NFL while highly drafted players are proving to be busts.

It's a matter of being flexible enough to make yourself fit or be fit. That goes for both players and coaches. A coach that is good enough to tweak his system to fit player's strengths will, generally speaking, be more successful than a coach who has to have "system players" or ideal prospects. The same goes for players who can learn to adapt to different systems. They will succeed more often than a "prototype" position player. One trick ponies get the gate more often than multiple trick ponies. AD or AF would be on the sidelines or privately employed if they couldn't pass protect. Jared Allen and Dwight Freeny would not have the accolades they have if they couldn't be serviceable against the run. They would be pass rush specialists that would be no good in non-pass rush situations.

Case Keenum has shown a very high NFL IQ and an ability to learn and be coached up. Couple that ability to learn with his natural passing ability (weak arm my ass) and you have tremendous upside. Intangibles plus talent is a hard combination to beat. Keenum is showing both in spades. I like the young man and definitely think he has a future in the NFL. Intangibles plus talent> measurable and combine stats.
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Old 08-21-2013   #499
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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There's also a growing number of UDFA's excelling in the NFL while highly drafted players are proving to be busts.
One thing to take into consideration is that the draft used to be a LOT longer. In 1973, the draft was 17 rounds long. And guys in the 17th round actually made teams and played on them. All these UDFA's would have been drafted if there were more rounds.

The players union hates the draft and would prefer for all the players to be able to come out of college and negotiate their own deals so they've been shortening the draft and shortening the draft.

So way back in the 70's, 80's, and 90's, there were a lot fewer UDFA's making teams but over the years, as there are fewer and fewer draft rounds, more and more UDFA's make teams and actually make careers.

I mean... Deacon Jones was a 14th round draft choice. Bart Starr was taken in the 17th round. Those guys would have been UDFAs.
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Old 08-21-2013   #500
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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The players union hates the draft and would prefer for all the players to be able to come out of college and negotiate their own deals so they've been shortening the draft and shortening the draft.
I kind of like the idea of eliminating the draft. Give the teams their rookie pools (the bad teams get more money), and let them negotiate with the players on an individual basis. If a team wanted to throw their entire pool at a Luck or RG3, OK. That means they're worth that $$$. You couldn't televise it, but it would place an emphasis on money management and talent identification.

BTW, Deacon Jones (186th overall) and Bart Starr (200th overall) would have been drafted in the current draft system (256 picks). What you have to remember is that there were fewer teams (12-14) in the NFL in the 50's and 60's, so the rounds were much shorter.
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