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Old 08-19-2013   #421
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

In the same book, the author also recounted an interview with a QB whose name skipped my memory.

This QB prospect talked about how the coaches that he went through in workouts wanted to see him throw a rope on deep balls.

He was surprised when Walsh ask him to throw the ball with a little touch on those deep balls (not floating the ball, mind you.)
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Old 08-19-2013   #422
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
In the same book, the author also recounted an interview with a QB whose name skipped my memory.

This QB prospect talked about how the coaches that he went through in workouts wanted to see him throw a rope on deep balls.

He was surprised when Walsh ask him to throw the ball with a little touch on those deep balls (not floating the ball, mind you.)
A tangential point but...

Several many years ago, Jeff Blake was one of the hot, new QBs and he was hitting lots of deep passes. And he was doing it by putting extra loft to the ball so that it came down more like a punt. For a DB expecting a throw on a rope, it was coming from a different place and it was dropping right into the receiver while the DB was trying to locate it.

Of course, he had like 1 season where that worked and then everybody figured out how to stop it and had a book on him. And that was pretty much it for him.
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Old 08-19-2013   #423
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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A tangential point but...

Several many years ago, Jeff Blake was one of the hot, new QBs and he was hitting lots of deep passes. And he was doing it by putting extra loft to the ball so that it came down more like a punt. For a DB expecting a throw on a rope, it was coming from a different place and it was dropping right into the receiver while the DB was trying to locate it.

Of course, he had like 1 season where that worked and then everybody figured out how to stop it and had a book on him. And that was pretty much it for him.
I must say that I don't follow Jeff Blake, but you got me to look him up.
It doesn't look to me like he was punting the ball:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=relmfu&v=UhKATuCZ1Ds

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U11SmWC...%3DU11SmWC_UNY
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Old 08-19-2013   #424
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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You don't have to be a playmaker to throw for 4000 yards in today's NFL. You have to be a good QB, so I'm not saying Schaub is bad. But how many of those 4000 yards do you remember thinking only a handful of QBs would have gotten? In all honesty, half the QBs in the league would throw for 4000 yards in this offense under Gary Kubiak, maybe more. Hell, Jake Plummer threw for 4000 yards in this offense.

Moreover, the poster said that Schaub was trash in one specific, very narrowly defined area. That's completely defensible. You don't have to be evasive to throw for 4000 yards in Kubiak's offense. Schaub is NOT evasive. In fact, he's probably only slightly more athletic than QBs that have been called statues in years past.

This whole 4000 yard thing is seriously being overplayed by some of y'all. Schaub's a good QB, but it's not because he threw for 4000 yards.
It was also said that Texans offense would allow any runner to get a thousand yards. If so, what happened between Dommanick Davis (Williams) and Foster?
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Old 08-19-2013   #425
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Except for size (and the fact that he's not super quick like RGIII), I would have to say that Keenum has all the qualities of a QB that Bill Walsh wants.

I remember how Madden talks about the difference between what he wants in a QB vs Walsh; the main thing was that Madden wants his QB to zip the ball even if it's a 5-yd pass while Walsh prefers touch when needed.

In a book that I read, the author told the story of how Montana wasn't asked to go through all five reads until year four or something like that.

With Keenum, one the things that impresses me is how he can go through all five reads in about two seconds in the one back set or in empty.
It is extremely rare that you can find a young QB that can do it.
Also, I'm very impressed with the movement of his eyes and head.
He makes it difficult for the LBs and the safeties to tell where he's gonna go with the ball. You want your QB to be able to freeze these guys for a split of a second to make life easier for the target, be it the RB, the FB, the TE, or the receiver.

There's no way Gabbert can be a starter over Keenum.
I was so glad the Jags didn't take Keenum.
Above plus he never looks panic if play breaks down. I still think his biggest asset is his brain.
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Old 08-19-2013   #426
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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It was also said that Texans offense would allow any runner to get a thousand yards. If so, what happened between Dommanick Davis (Williams) and Foster?
Steve Slaton with over 1280 yards one year and then rb by committee the next (and Foster showing signs of the future towards the end of 09).
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Old 08-19-2013   #427
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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It was also said that Texans offense would allow any runner to get a thousand yards. If so, what happened between Dommanick Davis (Williams) and Foster?
Hello, Steve Slaton.

Anyway, it was pretty clear that I meant half or maybe more of the starting QBs in the NFL, not "any" QB. And if it makes you happy, I'll amend my statement to say "NFL caliber starters". How many of those crappy RBs the Texans endured are even in the NFL any longer? The fact that Slappy the college RB didn't manage 1000 yards as a Texan doesn't mean much when he didn't go anywhere else and see any success, either.

I get it that some people like to argue just to argue. I do it myself sometimes. But pick a defensible position.
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Old 08-19-2013   #428
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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I must say that I don't follow Jeff Blake, but you got me to look him up.
It doesn't look to me like he was punting the ball:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=relmfu&v=UhKATuCZ1Ds

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U11SmWC...%3DU11SmWC_UNY
Ignore the Saints highlights, that was after he'd been in the league for awhile and changed a bit. Look at the earlier, Bengals highlights. He doesn't do it every time, but his whole thing was trying to get the ball to come in to his receiver at more of a downward angle and you can see it in some of those older highlights.

They even had him on the old sports programs back in the 90's talking about it.
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Old 08-19-2013   #429
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Above plus he never looks panic if play breaks down. I still think his biggest asset is his brain.
No chuck and duck; no fetal position, LOL!
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Old 08-19-2013   #430
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

Keenum sure is looking good. It's strange seeing a Texans QB getting the ball into the hands of the receivers within seconds. Almost like how Brady was against us in the playoffs. He may get some batted down, but he looks really composed in the pocket. I would love to see a GIF comparing Schaub's and Keenum's wind up/throwing speed on a similar throw.
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Old 08-19-2013   #431
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Keenum sure is looking good. It's strange seeing a Texans QB getting the ball into the hands of the receivers within seconds. Almost like how Brady was against us in the playoffs. He may get some batted down, but he looks really composed in the pocket. I would love to see a GIF comparing Schaub's and Keenum's wind up/throwing speed on a similar throw.
One of the balls that was batted down was due to the fact the
RG was getting some help from the C.
The Center thought that with his help, the RG would finish the DT off; however, it looks like the RG was thinking that the Center will take over so he left to help the RT.
That left the DT unblocked and he was able to get there at the last moment.
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Old 08-19-2013   #432
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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It was also said that Texans offense would allow any runner to get a thousand yards. If so, what happened between Dommanick Davis (Williams) and Foster?
My arm hurts so I can't hold onto the ball Slaton?

Edit: (to eriadoc: just read your follow up post) this wasn't meant to be argumentative though I've been known to be so in the past, I was just more or less being my ol' smartass self.
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Old 08-19-2013   #433
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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I concur. I was pointing out one specific area of his game when he's getting blitzed or rushed. You just can't teach athletic ability or foot speed coordination.
In the last 8 weeks or so I've gone back & watched every game I still had on my DVR from last season.... about 10 of them. & Schaub made several plays off schedule. Nothing like Kaepernick, but several plays outside the pocket. At least once every game I watched, sometimes twice. & that's not counting the plays he took a big shot & still threw a catchable ball.

I was surprised to see it, because I couldn't remember more than two all year, but they're there. Even as late as the @Indy game.
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Old 08-19-2013   #434
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Matt has some of those characteristics but I don't know if anyone thing is strong enough in him that you'd call him a playmaker. Now maybe he could be if he was given more freedom. But he does not have the same amount of freedom that some of these other QB's have.

If anyone doubts that, go listen to the podcast from sr610 of the Sage interview. Unless you think he's a flat out liar for some reason then that really should be the end of it.

He specifically talks about how this offense is basically streamlined with options within each play so that it's easier on the QB to make reads and go through progressions (AKA QB friendly system)) vs his experience behind Eli Manning where he said that Eli basically has access to the whole playbook when he walks up to the LOS.
At the same time, we've seen Orlavsky struggle in this system. & Washington has gone through several guys who couldn't perform to minimum QB standards..... first rounders like David Carr, Rex Grossman & Matt Lienart.

You make it sound like anyone can throw for 4000 yards in 3 of the last 4 seasons in this system. Matt Schaub is a very good square peg in a very good square hole.

Now, clutch factor is something different & something worth arguing.
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Old 08-19-2013   #435
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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I must say that I don't follow Jeff Blake, but you got me to look him up.
It doesn't look to me like he was punting the ball:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=relmfu&v=UhKATuCZ1Ds

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U11SmWC...%3DU11SmWC_UNY
When Houston didn't have a team, I followed the Saints a bit (couldn't watch the Cowboys & I was a big Ricky Williams fan). I used to love watching Mighty Joe Horn, loved his story too.

I thought it was odd for a guy to go from obscurity to "big headed narcissist" in such a short time. But he was awesome to watch for a little while.

Jeff Blake was kinda short though.
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Old 08-19-2013   #436
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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At the same time, we've seen Orlavsky struggle in this system. & Washington has gone through several guys who couldn't perform to minimum QB standards..... first rounders like David Carr, Rex Grossman & Matt Lienart.

You make it sound like anyone can throw for 4000 yards in 3 of the last 4 seasons in this system. Matt Schaub is a very good square peg in a very good square hole.

Now, clutch factor is something different & something worth arguing.
A few years ago, Silvrhand asked for my opinion on Schaub, and I agreed with him that Schaub is a QB that is good enough to take you to the dance, but he doesn't have the charisma to be the major partner. He needs a girl that can shine while he stays strong and steady.

Schaub fell a bit short on that regard last year, and the girl didn't shine either.
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Old 08-19-2013   #437
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

this isn't a schaub thread....lol Matt is our guy weather you like it or not until proven otherwise.


As far as Case, what happened to all those people worried about his size and his arm strength.

Seems to me that Case has the best arm strength, quickest release, and shows the most emotion. Case also has the best footwork and instincts.

He's the real deal. Fact of the matter is, TJ isn't playing bad. He's actually doing good. If TJ still does decent, he'll keep the 2nd QB position. And TJ should have no excuse because of his experience.

If Case is 3rd, he'll still work hard, study more, and will be ready if called. Most likely Case will do well against the Cowgirls. He'll put pressure on Schaub, which I think is good. I like how Case looked good with higher quality players last week. Can't imagine with foster and Johnson with Case.
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Old 08-19-2013   #438
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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Above plus he never looks panic if play breaks down. I still think his biggest asset is his brain.
What has impressed me the most about Case is his composure. Dude never looks rattled out there and this pre-season has really made me into a fan of his in just two games.

I like TJ...as a backup. But, something about Case says starter at some point. He is not going to take Schaub's job, but I would not be surprised if he grows into it someday.
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Old 08-19-2013   #439
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB

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At the same time, we've seen Orlavsky struggle in this system. & Washington has gone through several guys who couldn't perform to minimum QB standards..... first rounders like David Carr, Rex Grossman & Matt Lienart.

You make it sound like anyone can throw for 4000 yards in 3 of the last 4 seasons in this system. Matt Schaub is a very good square peg in a very good square hole.

Now, clutch factor is something different & something worth arguing.
No, what I said is that qb's are generally better in this system than they are in others. I didn't say anything about any old scrub being able to come in and put up 4k yards.
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Old 08-19-2013   #440
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Default Re: Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB



Solomon: Why Case Keenum should not be the Texans’ backup QB


...and ground breaking journalism like this is why the Houston Crapnicle is the worst major market newspaper in the country.

I can understand if someone feels TJ should start, because of "experience" even if I don't believe that (if a guy has been in the same system through out his college and pro career and is in a dead heat with a 2nd year former PS player, then he should lose the spot anyhow)

... but to have that opinion solely, because Bradlee frickin Van Pelt sucked nearly 10 years ago is ludicrous and lazy. When Jerome Solomon shows up for his check, I hope he's at least wearing a mask and carrying a gun. He needs to take his act to Dallas, because all he usually does is hate on anything Houston and he's nothing, but a professional troll. I can't believe that guy actually gets paid for his opinions. He's just a broke ass Skip Bayless.
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