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Old 07-16-2013   #21
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Default Re: Jaws: Schaub is NFL's 9th Best QB

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
It sucks, & I am "faulting" Schaub for that one, but I'm not as down on him as some folks.
I like Schaub and I think we can do some really good things with him if most other things are going right.

But I don't believe that he is going to be the guy that lifts us past adversity.

This isn't about crunch time for me. It's about big games in general. I've got no faith that Schaub can right a ship once it's gone wrong. I don't think he's going to defy any odds when they're stacked against us.

If multiple things are going wrong, I don't expect Schaub to make multiple plays just off the strength of himself and then be able to close the deal in the end.

If guys are dropping passes, if he's getting some pressure, if the defense or special teams gives up a play I don't have faith that Schaub will make great plays to keep us in the game and win it in the end.

Now, that's not a huge knock on Schaub because there are a lot of QB's that can do that.

But for me, as a fan, it's about belief. With some other QB's I can at least envision them doing those things. I can picture some QB's making clutch accurate throws, fitting passes into tight spaces with defenders around them. I can picture guys making defenders miss scrambling out and hitting an open guy for a big completion in a big moment. I can see other guys having that alpha dog, killer instinct and everyone else on the field having that swagger because they have ultimate faith in their QB.

I don't see that with Schaub.

If I'm starting a team today, Schaub wouldn't be in the top 9 QB's that I'd grab. But I do think that in our system we can win a superbowl with him.
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Old 07-16-2013   #22
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Default Re: Jaws: Schaub is NFL's 9th Best QB

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Things a top 9 rated QB shuld be able to do?

If you watched the offense the last 6 games of the season and still think... Schaub is a top 9 QB, then we will have to agree to disagree.
From another thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
To answer my own question, 8 QBs have thrown for more than 4000 yards 3 or more times in the last 5 years. (1)Romo, (2)Eli, (3)Schaub, (4)Rodgers, & (5)Brady have done it 3 times. For Schaub, Rodgers, & Brady they did it in 3 of the last 4 years.

(6)Phillip Rivers &(7) Peyton Manning have done it in 4 of the last 5 years. (8)Drew Brees has done it for the last 5 years, he led the league in Passing 3 times in the last 5 years.

Shaub led one year, Rivers led the other.

Both (9)Matt Ryan & (10)Matthew Stafford have thrown for 4000 yards in each of the last two seasons.

Passer rating (NFL.com's passer rating) QBs with a 92 or better (250 attempts) in the last 5 years,

(4)Rodgers 5 of 5 He's a machine

(3)Schaub 4 of the last 5 years 2012 he had a passer rating of 90

(8)Brees 4 of the last 5 90.9 in 2010

(5)Brady 4 of 5 2008 83.7 on 11 att

(7)Manning 3 of 5 91.9 in 2010 & he missed the entire 2011 season.

(9)Ryan 2 of 5 Last 2 years

(11)Kaepernick 1 of 5 Only 218 att

(12)Smith 1 of 5 Only 218 att

(13)Wilson 1 of 5

(14)RG3 1 of 5

That's pretty good company once you get past all the haterade.
He definitely belongs in the top 10 conversation. In the last 5 years, only 5 guys have thrown for 4,000 yards in 3 or more seasons & had a QB rating over 92 (with more than 250 atts) in 3 or more years. I think the conversation should start there & round it out with favorites for other reasons.

It's not about potential, what you think they are going to do next year, or an over reaction to a small sample size (6 games). These guys have played the game at a high level for a long time.

Matt Ryan appears to be an up & comer as he's been on both list over the last two seasons.
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Old 07-16-2013   #23
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Default Re: Jaws: Schaub is NFL's 9th Best QB

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
If I'm starting a team today, Schaub wouldn't be in the top 9 QB's that I'd grab. But I do think that in our system we can win a superbowl with him.
Good post & I understand most of it.

I'm going to assume at least one of Kaepernick, RG3, Wilson, or Luck will be on your top 9.... and if you're starting a new team, that's probably the way it should be.

But that don't make them top 9 QBs.

At one time, Tony Romo & Phillip Rivers would have been on everybody's top 9 to start a franchise with. But looking back, we see that might not have been the "no-brainer" we thought it was.

Both Romo & Rivers are talented mofos..... but their decision making isn't where it needs to be on a consistent basis.
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Old 07-16-2013   #24
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Default Re: Jaws: Schaub is NFL's 9th Best QB

I wanna see Schaub do this after a TD, or a big play.



Then I'll believe he can inspire his team to win.
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Old 07-16-2013   #25
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Default Re: Jaws: Schaub is NFL's 9th Best QB

It's about where Schaub should be. Fringe top 10 who has accomplished some big numbers on some Texans teams with terrible defenses. People on TT like to piss and moan about the QB and the HC but both are well above average compared to their peers.
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Old 07-16-2013   #26
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Default Re: Jaws: Schaub is NFL's 9th Best QB

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
From another thread.


He definitely belongs in the top 10 conversation. In the last 5 years, only 5 guys have thrown for 4,000 yards in 3 or more seasons & had a QB rating over 92 (with more than 250 atts) in 3 or more years. I think the conversation should start there & round it out with favorites for other reasons.

It's not about potential, what you think they are going to do next year, or an over reaction to a small sample size (6 games). These guys have played the game at a high level for a long time.

Matt Ryan appears to be an up & comer as he's been on both list over the last two seasons.
Stats = loser

Making plays to kee your team in a game and making plays at the end of games = winner. So far Schaub hasn't shown he can make those plays against playoff caliber teams in the clutch, in big games.
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Old 07-16-2013   #27
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Default Re: Jaws: Schaub is NFL's 9th Best QB

From PFT today. It's their take on Jaws story.

Dorrell says Schaub needs to perform when it counts

Quote:
In his annual quarterback rankings, ESPN’s Ron Jaworski put Matt Schaub ahead of each of the young quartet of future franchise quarterbacks: Colin Kaepernick, Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III, and Russell Wilson.

(Would anyone take Schaub before any of those four players? Anyone? Is this thing on?)
Read more at the link provided. As usual, I think they are misreading Jaws. It's not about who you would take today, but of course, let's not worry about such things as facts.

Having said that - After last year, I would not have Schaub in the top 10, and maybe not top 15. I mean it was a tale of two Schaub's. First half, he wasn't quite himself but all in all, he was pretty good. Second half, I'm not sure I would put him in the top 25. His second half was next to awful. That won't get it done.

I think the fate of the team this year rests at RT and QB. Those two positions need to perform if the Texans are to make a deep run in the playoffs.
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Old 07-16-2013   #28
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Default Re: Jaws: Schaub is NFL's 9th Best QB

In todays NFL you've got to be able to make plays off schedule. If you want to win big. RG3/Kaep/Wilson/Rodgers/Brees/Brady/Flacco/Manning etc...

Schaub couldn't do this last yr.
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Old 07-16-2013   #29
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Default Re: Jaws: Schaub is NFL's 9th Best QB

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Good post & I understand most of it.

I'm going to assume at least one of Kaepernick, RG3, Wilson, or Luck will be on your top 9.... and if you're starting a new team, that's probably the way it should be.

But that don't make them top 9 QBs.

At one time, Tony Romo & Phillip Rivers would have been on everybody's top 9 to start a franchise with. But looking back, we see that might not have been the "no-brainer" we thought it was.

Both Romo & Rivers are talented mofos..... but their decision making isn't where it needs to be on a consistent basis.
I'd still take Romo and Rivers over Schaub in our system with our same personnel/coaching around them.
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Old 07-16-2013   #30
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Default Re: Jaws: Schaub is NFL's 9th Best QB

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Stats = loser

Making plays to kee your team in a game and making plays at the end of games = winner. So far Schaub hasn't shown he can make those plays against playoff caliber teams in the clutch, in big games.
We won 13 games in 2012. Schaub has won way more of the games he started in the last 2 years than he lost, or didn't close. That also includes against play off caliber teams.
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Old 07-16-2013   #31
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Default Re: Jaws: Schaub is NFL's 9th Best QB

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I'd still take Romo and Rivers over Schaub in our system with our same personnel/coaching around them.
I was about to write the same thing, concerning Romo. I'm not so high on Rivers. Romo is the type of QB I'd like to have, but I'd be hoping Kubiak can whip the crazy out of him. Maybe he can, who knows?

I do agree, there's a good chance Romo would do well in our system, with what we've got right now. It's not so likely that Schaub would be as "successful" as Romo has been in Dallas with the things he's had to deal with. If they still had Sean Peyton calling the plays I'd feel better about it, but Jason Garrett????? I'm not feeling it.
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Old 07-16-2013   #32
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Default Re: Jaws: Schaub is NFL's 9th Best QB

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Originally Posted by Goatcheese View Post
Schaub didn't need the defense to cover up anything. He needed them to not embarrass themselves. The offense put up 28 points which was all the Ravens needed to put the Pats away. Why? Because the Ravens' defense showed up and held Tom Lady to 13.

The vaunted Texans D got rolled over, punked and shamed by the same team twice in one season. They are 100% to blame for that loss.
Excellent point.

I've raised this point many times in various Schaub sucks discussions only to have it ignored by the Anti-Schaub crowd.

But thou shall NOT cast dispersions on Saint Wade lest ye be termed a blasphemer.
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Old 07-16-2013   #33
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Default Re: Jaws: Schaub is NFL's 9th Best QB

I actually think we're in one of the best QB eras ever. The middle of the pack QBs these days are pretty good, to be honest. I mean, think about guys like Flacco, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Ryan, EManning, etc. Those guys have not had a career like PManning or Brady or Brees, or even Rodgers, but they have all had years that could be considered great. Then you have the young guns putting up seasons that lead you to believe they could be as good or better than those guys.

There is honestly more than half the league's starting QBs I'd take over Matt Schaub. Some have already proven to be better and some are trending to be better. We know what we have in Schaub, and he just doesn't have it. He's good enough to be a QB on a Super Bowl team, but he's not good enough to haul a team along to the Super Bowl.

In order of tier, not player:
Brees
Brady
PManning
Rodgers

EManning
Roethlisberger
Flacco
Ryan
Rivers
Romo
Cutler
Stafford
(Wilson)
(Luck)
(RGIII)
(Newton)
(Kaepernick)

Schaub
a few others

Gabbert and his caliber

() - guys I'd take over Schaub because of upside, but not necessarily because they are better today (they might be, though)
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Old 07-16-2013   #34
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Default Re: Jaws: Schaub is NFL's 9th Best QB

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Originally Posted by Goatcheese View Post
Schaub didn't need the defense to cover up anything. He needed them to not embarrass themselves. The offense put up 28 points which was all the Ravens needed to put the Pats away. Why? Because the Ravens' defense showed up and held Tom Lady to 13.

The vaunted Texans D got rolled over, punked and shamed by the same team twice in one season. They are 100% to blame for that loss.
I agree with you, but then there are still people who blame Moon for 35-3. Personally, I'm of the opinion that the defense should have held a 35-3 lead even if Moon had been sent home after the 5th TD, but you'll never convince some people.
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Old 07-16-2013   #35
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Default Re: Jaws: Schaub is NFL's 9th Best QB

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I wanna see Schaub do this after a TD, or a big play.



Then I'll believe he can inspire his team to win.
Carefull now. You don't want Schaub to strain anything.
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Old 07-16-2013   #36
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Default Matt Schaub must excel at crunch time, QBs coach says

LINK

Quote:
The Houston Texans' season has ended at the hands of the AFC's Super Bowl representative in each of the past two seasons. If they are going to get over the hump this season, they need quarterback Matt Schaub to stand toe-to-toe with the likes of Tom Brady and Joe Flacco.

"We know that from our standpoint there was definitely stuff that we left on the table last year," quarterbacks coach Karl Dorrell said via the Texans' official website Monday.
Quote:
He regressed in a major way down the stretch last season, tossing just four touchdowns in his last six games. By the time he was severely outplayed by Brady in the AFC Divisional Round blowout loss, Schaub was nothing more than a glorified game manager.

It's no coincidence that Dorrell cited Schaub's need for improvement in crunch time. The eight-year veteran has just 12 game-winning drives under his belt. To put that number in perspective, Andrew Luck led the Indianapolis Colts on seven game-winning drives as a rookie.
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Old 07-16-2013   #37
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Default Re: Matt Schaub must excel at crunch time, QBs coach says

I like the game winning drive stats vs Luck when they serve very little if any purpose
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Old 07-16-2013   #38
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Default Re: Jaws: Schaub is NFL's 9th Best QB

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
In order of tier, not player:
Brees
Brady
PManning
Rodgers

EManning
Roethlisberger
Flacco
Ryan
Rivers
Romo
Cutler
Stafford
(Wilson)
(Luck)
(RGIII)
(Newton)
(Kaepernick)

Schaub
a few others

Gabbert and his caliber

() - guys I'd take over Schaub because of upside, but not necessarily because they are better today (they might be, though)
You take away their defense & their running game & Eli, Ben, Flacco, Ryan, & Rivers ain't done anything Schaub hasn't. Hard for me to put those guys in a tier higher than Schaub. We saw it before Flacco got Torry Smith & Bolden. We saw it in Atlanta before Ryan had Roddy & Julio. We saw it in San Diego when Rivers lost Vincent, Merriman, Olshansky, & we're seeing it in Pittsburgh as that defense continues to get older.

Those guys do things in different ways than Schaub has, but at the end of the day he does his job as well as if not better than those guys. He just hasn't had the help they've had to win games & be in the play offs.

I love Andre, but he hasn't stepped up in the clutch way Hines Ward has. I love Arian, but he hasn't carried this team the way the Bus carried Pittsburgh. & we all know KDub isn't a Torry Smith or Julio Jones.

The only thing separating Schaub from those top tier guys, is the wins... & wins, are a team accomplishment, not a QB accomplishment. Championships are an organization accomplishment, not a QB accomplishment. Put Tom Brady on this team over the last 5 years I guarantee we wouldn't have won a Super Bowl.....


After thinking about that, that may not be true, our organization now is about as close to a championship org as you can get without winning a championship & a Tom Brady may be the difference. But before Wade, before Watt, Tom Brady wouldn't have been enough.
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Old 07-16-2013   #39
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Default Re: Jaws: Schaub is NFL's 9th Best QB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatcheese View Post
...The offense put up 28 points which was all the Ravens needed to put the Pats away. Why? Because the Ravens' defense showed up and held Tom Lady to 13.

The vaunted Texans D got rolled over, punked and shamed by the same team twice in one season. They are 100% to blame for that loss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Excellent point.

I've raised this point many times in various Schaub sucks discussions only to have it ignored by the Anti-Schaub crowd.

But thou shall NOT cast dispersions on Saint Wade lest ye be termed a blasphemer.
True dat, GC & OW. 41 is too many.
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Old 07-16-2013   #40
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Default Re: Jaws: Schaub is NFL's 9th Best QB

Peyton Manning's play-offs record is 9-11; Schaub's is 1-1

If Peyton is clutch, what does that make Schaub?
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