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View Poll Results: Should the Washington Redskins change their name?
Yes 32 28.07%
No 82 71.93%
Voters: 114. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #401
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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Originally Posted by Yvette View Post
Natives have always been concerned about those living conditions but no one cares enough to listen, who can do anything about it.
I think the government wants Natives to go away, forever...

out of sight...out of mind...
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #402
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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Originally Posted by Yvette View Post
Natives have always been concerned about those living conditions but no one cares enough to listen, who can do anything about it.
Great question honestly I wouldn't know where to start. I voted no on the poll before reading all the post, but I went back and read all the post and did a little research on the topic online now I'm starting to think that maybe the name should be changed.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #403
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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Originally Posted by BullNation4Life View Post
I don't think it's disparaging...I think there are far more things that happen on reservations that are more disparaging than a name....


but maybe the fair will change my mind. I always want to learn more...
I understand that you do not find the term disparaging. That said, I assume you would have no problem with calling the Tribal Chairman of the Comanche Nation a 'redskin' to his face?

The folks that made me truly aware were Native American elders. I agree there are a lot more problems going on in many places around the world, including reservations, but wouldn't a step in the right direction be to stop the silly caricatures of the many various tribes? When you belittle a people and their cultures, there is a subversive mentality going on in the mind to devalue them, as well.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #404
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
I understand that you do not find the term disparaging. That said, I assume you would have no problem with calling the Tribal Chairman of the Comanche Nation a 'redskin' to his face?

The folks that made me truly aware were Native American elders. I agree there are a lot more problems going on in many places around the world, including reservations, but wouldn't a step in the right direction be to stop the silly caricatures of the many various tribes? When you belittle a people and their cultures, there is a subversive mentality going on in the mind to devalue them, as well.
wouldn't know, never met one. If I did, however, I would ask him if redskin offends him. If so, I would apologize but I have a sneaking feeling that the Tribal Chairman would inform me that there are far more important issues than silly caricatures and nicknames that he and his people are concerned about and need to address.

not the silly antics of the white man


but that's just my opinion...
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #405
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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Originally Posted by BullNation4Life View Post
wouldn't know, never met one. If I did, however, I would ask him if redskin offends him. If so, I would apologize but I have a sneaking feeling that the Tribal Chairman would inform me that there are far more important issues than silly caricatures and nicknames that he and his people are concerned about and need to address.

not the silly antics of the white man

but that's just my opinion...
Please understand that I'm not trying to argue with you, but rather have a respectful conversation about both of our opinions.

I understand where you're coming from, as I was the same way. So I started asking those that it directly affected. And I found that ALL full blooded Native Americans that I asked did not like the name or use of the image, which is very sacred and an honor.

The folks that seem divided were the ones that were not full blooded Native Americans, and even then there was a substantial number that did not care for it.

I still ask to this day. I was at an Order of the Arrow function recently (a national honor society in BSA that promotes Native American traditions and values), and I asked many of the dancers and drummers.

I'm far from a PC kind of person. However, sometimes there are issues that might align with PC, and so be it. This is one of those issues that I've thought about a lot and my own perceptions have changed. I have already put my thoughts in this thread, so no point in going over it again.

My main point was that there is nothing wrong with changing your mind when something compelling comes to your perspective.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #406
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

I am a weird position. I don't call anyone redskin or nego or chink..whatever the slang is it means nothing to me. Have I been called redneck or cracker ..yeah..but I take no offense to what it is I did look white as a saltine and had a red neck and a farmers tan at the time. Big deal to me ...I worked outside .

I figure there are bigger troubles. With that said I never thought of redskin as derogatory .i still remember a quantum leap episode where the Indian favorite team was the redskins(not that it mattered) I do wonder if opinions would change If the redskins were winning super bowls
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #407
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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Originally Posted by BullNation4Life View Post
would love to, where?
September 26-28
Lawton, OK

A good place to visit for tribal history is the Comanche National Museum and Cultural Center.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #408
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvette View Post
September 26-28
Lawton, OK

A good place to visit for tribal history is the Comanche National Museum and Cultural Center.
awesome, got family in Bristow, OK. I can take 44 straight through OKC into Lawton...
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #409
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Truth be told, to Daniel Snyder, it doesn't matter if you are redskin, blueskin, brownskin, whiteskin, or pink with purple polkadot skin.

Snyder only cares about one skin color, green and those skins will be the reason the name never changes...
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #410
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Well looks like our little community isn't far off from the public:

Quote:
Nearly three-fourths of Americans favor letting the Washington Redskins keep their nickname, but the percentage who think it should be changed has tripled in the past two decades, according to a poll conducted by Langer Research for "Outside the Lines."

Nearly a quarter (23 percent) of Americans surveyed now think the name should be changed, up from 8 percent in 1992 and up 9 percentage points in the past year alone.
Link
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #411
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Well looks like our little community isn't far off from the public:



Link
Is that really surprising? I wonder if there were a poll done in 1850 to white people in the US asking if the word n*gger was offensive if the results would have been similar.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #412
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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Originally Posted by Hookem Horns View Post
Is that really surprising? I wonder if there were a poll done in 1850 to white people in the US asking if the word n*gger was offensive if the results would have been similar.
Just reporting.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #413
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

I heard about this on the radio the other day (and they mentioned Bryant Gumbel taking the same stance):

Quote:
Phil Simms, Tony Dungy unlikely to use 'Redskins' during broadcasts

Two notable NFL analysts and former Super Bowl champions say they're planning to a stand against the Washington Redskins' nickname by refusing to say it on the air.

Article
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #414
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Quote:
Fox Sports announcer Thom Brennaman and Texans radio voice Marc Vandermeer said they will use the name "Redskins" to refer to the visiting team playing the Texans on Sunday afternoon at NRG Stadium.
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/spor...ng-5729668.php
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #415
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
I heard about this on the radio the other day (and they mentioned Bryant Gumbel taking the same stance):
I know sometimes change is needed but this still boggles me.

I've always known sometimes redskin was used as a pejorative.
I've always and still believe that was not the intention of the Redskins.

And yet all the sudden you see people planting a giant sanctimonious flag that it's obviously racist in any context and anyone who doesn't think so is despicable.

I'm still meh about it - seems to me "OK we'll change it as a courtesy" or "we'll take it in the spirit you possibly ignorantly intended it" seem equally good solutions voluntarily.

I just really can't fully sympathize because I 100% don't believe the name or the logo were intended to demean.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #416
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I know sometimes change is needed but this still boggles me.

I've always known sometimes redskin was used as a pejorative.
I've always and still believe that was not the intention of the Redskins.

And yet all the sudden you see people planting a giant sanctimonious flag that it's obviously racist in any context and anyone who doesn't think so is despicable.

I'm still meh about it - seems to me "OK we'll change it as a courtesy" or "we'll take it in the spirit you possibly ignorantly intended it" seem equally good solutions voluntarily.

I just really can't fully sympathize because I 100% don't believe the name or the logo were intended to demean.
I agree with you about it's probable origin, even though George Preston Marshall was about as overtly racist as you can get (and the true definition of racist - i.e. white supremacy). Maybe it was derogory by him or maybe not, but fans never seemed to use it in that manner (my personal opinion is that Marshall was going for the bloodthirsty savages stereotype so prevalent in that era when entertainers were doing stuff like blackface stereotypes - a sign of the times).

And I guess I'm weird on this issue because I'm not offended by it. Truth be told, there is not a word in existence that truly offends me. Even the n-word is just vowels and consonants, but spoken toward another individual is when a line is crossed into offensiveness. At least that's how my Carlinist mind tends to work.

But, that said, where are we at today? The word is defined by all respectable English dictionaries as a offensive/ derogatory word. That's jsut basic fact now. Regardless of history, that is where it is today when a student looks it up in a legitimate source of defining words.

And when we look at two other aspects, the big picture history of the word (and let's be honest here, there are a lot of examples of derogatory usage, well documented in this thread), and how many full blooded Native Americans are perceiving it, we are seeing a slow evolution in perspectives shifting toward what we all know is most likely an inevitable conclusion.

So, as always, I'm not arguing, but just sharing perspectives out of respect. I do not have to agree to still respect someone.

An interesting personal insight:

Quote:
A 'Redskin' Is the Scalped Head of a Native American, Sold, Like a Pelt, for Cash

What the word means to my family.

Native Americans pass down stories to preserve their history and heritage, because we don’t have much of it left. As tribes were systemically exterminated, so too were their respective cultures. But we have our stories, and when my mother was young, her parents shared one about the term “redskins.”

The story in my family goes that the term dates back to the institutionalized genocide of Native Americans, most notably when the Massachusetts colonial government placed a bounty on their heads.

The grisly particulars of that genocide are listed in a 1755 document called the Phips Proclamation, which zeroed in on the Penobscot Indians, a tribe today based in Maine.

Spencer Phips, a British politician and then Lieutenant Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Province, issued the call, ordering on behalf of British King George II for, “His Majesty’s subjects to Embrace all opportunities of pursuing, captivating, killing and Destroying all and every of the aforesaid Indians.” They paid well – 50 pounds for adult male scalps; 25 for adult female scalps; and 20 for scalps of boys and girls under age 12.

These bloody scalps were known as “redskins.”

The mascot of the Washington Redskins, if the team desired accuracy, would be a gory, bloodied crown from the head of a butchered Native American.

Defenders of the team nickname say its origin was totally benign, and that it’s not possible to know the true meaning of the word. Those defenders cite a Smithsonian article that traces an origin to skin color, before the systematic scalping. (A later Smithsonian quote disputed it.)

But my mother knew what it meant, or what it came to mean, and so do many other Native Americans.

“That’s a hard lesson for a young girl to learn,” my mother says. I can’t remember when she passed it down to her four sons, only that the very mention of that word—the single-most offensive name one could ever call a Native American—has always made my blood boil.

Full article
The full article is very interesting, and I would urge everyone on both sides of this issue to at least read it out of respect and to open your worldview just a little.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #417
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Some more history for y'all's reading pleasure:

Quote:
The following quotes were printed in "The Aberdeen Saturday Pioneer," a weekly newspaper published in Aberdeen, South Dakota. The first was published immediately after Sitting Bull's assasination by Indian Police Dec. 15, 1890.

Quote:
"Sitting Bull, most renowned Sioux of modern history, is dead.

"He was an Indian with a white man's spirit of hatred and revenge for those who had wronged him and his. In his day he saw his son and his tribe gradually driven from their possessions: forced to give up their old hunting grounds and espouse the hard working and uncongenial avocations of the whites. And these, his conquerors, were marked in their dealings with his people by selfishness, falsehood and treachery. What wonder that his wild nature, untamed by years of subjection, should still revolt? What wonder that a fiery rage still burned within his breast and that he should seek every opportunity of obtaining vengeance upon his natural enemies.

"The proud spirit of the original owners of these vast prairies inherited through centuries of fierce and bloody wars for their possession, lingered last in the bosom of Sitting Bull. With his fall the nobility of the Redskin is extinguished, and what few are left are a pack of whining curs who lick the hand that smites them. The Whites, by law of conquest, by justice of civilization, are masters of the American continent, and the best safety of the frontier settlements will be secured by the total annihilation of the few remaining Indians. Why not annihilation? Their glory has fled, their spirit broken, their manhood effaced; better that they die than live the miserable wretches that they are. History would forget these latter despicable beings, and speak, in later ages of the glory of these grand Kings of forest and plain that Cooper loved to heroism.

"We cannot honestly regret their extermination, but we at least do justice to the manly characteristics possessed, according to their lights and education, by the early Redskins of America."
The editorial begins ambivalently, but concludes by calling for the extermination of American Indians.

The editor and publisher of "The Aberdeen Pioneer" who advocated genocide is well known: his name is L. Frank Baum. A decade later, his book "The Wizard of Oz" (1900) would become a classic.

Full article / source
This was the mindset of the average American toward Native Americans at the time. The use of "redskin" was a reflection of that mindset. Offending Native Americans, like offending most ethnic minorities, was never a concern in 1890.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #418
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Well looks like our little community isn't far off from the public:



Link
That's actually good news for people that want to change the name IMO. Support is growing rapidly.

Things like ESPN doing hour long specials on the controversy, Snyder being compelled to start a bogus website defending the name, and taking token plane trips to the Dakotas are further evidence that opinions are shifting away from him on the issue.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #419
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

“Redskins” License Challenge at FCC Raises Novel Issues
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #420
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Just so i can have my 15 minutes of fame and so the whole country can worry about everyone elses business i am going to name my next child Scalp Redskin Smith, and i am half Indian. The sad thing is the name would prob get national coverage, that just goes to show you America really has nothing better to do than worry about dumb shit !
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