Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > Football Talk > The National Football League
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


The National Football League League News & Current Events

View Poll Results: Should the Washington Redskins change their name?
Yes 33 28.70%
No 82 71.30%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-26-2014   #321
disaacks3
Site Contributor
 
disaacks3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Spring, TX
Section: 116 - Row M
Age: 45
Posts: 10,605
Rep Power: 137686 disaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
Honest question (since I'm such a smartass at times I'll make sure you know this is a serious question)...was the term "redskin" ever an insult? A bunch of the terms that we are comparing the name to was/is clearly an insult. For example I've been called a chink and it was always used in a way to insult me, so I know that's an insult. When it comes to the term 'redskin' I've never heard anyone casually in person, on TV, or in print ever call anyone a 'redskin' in a derog manner. Are we just making this an insult (for a cause) when it was never really ever used as one?
I asked the same question in the NSZ. One first-person result and a couple of second-hand positives.

Your experience is the same as mine (and my family). I was told it didn't count as I didn't grow up in/around a reservation, therefore the chance of me ever hearing it used was highly unlikely.
__________________
D.B. - That sounds like a nugget of reality wrapped in a layer of embellished hyperbole.
disaacks3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014   #322
Double Barrel
Modified Simian
 
Double Barrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Onward, Upward, and back into the Trees
Section: Gridiron, Tx
Age: 48
Posts: 31,092
Rep Power: 337617 Double Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
You didn't deflate any assertion as you compared dissimilar issues. Strawman much?
Not a strawman at all. I have no desire to deceive in this discussion. You were attempting to support your position with a numbers poll.

I merely pointed out that many causes have been promoted and advance even though a majority of those affected might not agree at the time.

I'm sorry if you are unable to follow the logic, but I think you do and just choose an obtuse attitude to defend an antiquated and defined disparaging term. It's all good, though. I know how you roll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
I don't need to wiggle and you have yet to find a valid comparison. Show me those NAACP chapters signing up to endorse racist names. Show me them naming their school mascots using those names.
Now you're sailing the USS Goofy on the seas of cheese.

Validity is in the eyes of perception, I guess.

Please tell me how the word redskin is any different than yellowskin or blackface? Would you go up to a Native American and call him a redskin? Be honest here. Would you?

Many other derogatory racial names for teams have been dropped over time, and you keep ignoring basic history lessons that have been presented in order to defend the antiquated and defined disparaging term that you seem to love to embrace.

Its easy for a white dude like you to blow this stuff off. Just like Dan Snider.

History will ultimately show that you're on the wrong side of this one, my friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
Honest question (since I'm such a smartass at times I'll make sure you know this is a serious question)...was the term "redskin" ever an insult? A bunch of the terms that we are comparing the name to was/is clearly an insult. For example I've been called a chink and it was always used in a way to insult me, so I know that's an insult. When it comes to the term 'redskin' I've never heard anyone casually in person, on TV, or in print ever call anyone a 'redskin' in a derog manner. Are we just making this an insult (for a cause) when it was never really ever used as one?
There's this: "A linguistic analysis of 42 books published between 1875 and 1930 shows that negative contexts in the use of redskin were significantly more frequent than positive usage". Source

Quick question, man: Would you go to up a Native American and call him a redskin without blinking an eye? Liike, "hey, what's up, redskin?"

This is what ultimately changed my mind. Why would I call someone something behind their back that I would not say to their face? This was respectfully explained to me by some Native Americans in the OA honor society when I tried to defend the name many years ago using the same attitude mentioned by many in this thread.

Ask Yvette, who you know well, about it. She has experienced it as a racial insult and has first hand experiences with the term as an offensive insult to her people. She will not participate in these threads because of the 'get over it' attitude. All from white dudes, too. Go figure.

Did you know the word "chink" originated in China? It was not originally an insult. Heck, look at Hookem's headline above. It was not used as a derogatory term at that time. What changed?

Same with the N-word and black people. It was not originally an insult.

Times change. What was okay yesterday slowly evolves into something antiquated and gets left in the dustbins of history. Some people take the low road and call it PC. Personally, I call it enlightened thinking.
__________________
"Football is only a diversion." ~ HOUSTON TEXANS
Double Barrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014   #323
Vinny
shiny happy fan
 
Vinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 50
Posts: 21,845
Rep Power: 161784 Vinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

I'd probably not walk up to someone and call them a redskin but I wouldn't walk up to you can call you a whiteskin either. I've always looked at the Redskin logo and thought positive things. I've seen the name "Redskin" and it seems more like a description and have never seen this as a derog term so I have mixed feelings on this issue. I'm having to force myself to now make term to be insulting, then force myself to be offended. I'm having a hard time with that. Not really trying to argue your position either.
__________________
http://twitter.com/#!/TexansTalk


"A nation of sheep begets a government of wolves" - Edward R. Murrow
Vinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014   #324
Double Barrel
Modified Simian
 
Double Barrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Onward, Upward, and back into the Trees
Section: Gridiron, Tx
Age: 48
Posts: 31,092
Rep Power: 337617 Double Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
I'd probably not walk up to someone and call them a redskin but I wouldn't walk up to you can call you a whiteskin either. I've always looked at the Redskin logo and thought positive things. I've seen the name "Redskin" and it seems more like a description and have never seen this as a derog term so I have mixed feelings on this issue. I'm having to force myself to now make term to be insulting, then force myself to be offended. I'm having a hard time with that. Not really trying to argue your position either.
I hear ya', man. Like I said many times, I'm not offended by it.

I used to feel the exact same way as you. Heck, during the '80's, I was a Redskins fan. They were the Cowboys rival, and the Oilers sucked so bad during the first part of the decade, that I jumped on the Joe Gibbs bandwagon for awhile.

My mind was changed by Native Americans. I had no answers to truly support what they perceived as offensive. What do you say at that point? My mind changed based on principle, not from being offended about it.

What I really want from these discussions is for someone to present a perspective that challenges me to think about it, to provide a supporting argument that I could take to Native Americans in order to justify the term and caricature of their culture. So far, nobody has given me anything substantial that I can sink my teeth into. It's the same old redundancies that I believed in years ago.

Modern dictionaries are not going to un-define the word as a racially offensive term. So we are either left with defending a disparaging term or not.
__________________
"Football is only a diversion." ~ HOUSTON TEXANS
Double Barrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014   #325
Dan B.
Hall of Fame
 
Dan B.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: by the construction
Age: 36
Posts: 6,726
Rep Power: 68181 Dan B. is a quality contributor and well respectedDan B. is a quality contributor and well respectedDan B. is a quality contributor and well respectedDan B. is a quality contributor and well respectedDan B. is a quality contributor and well respectedDan B. is a quality contributor and well respectedDan B. is a quality contributor and well respectedDan B. is a quality contributor and well respectedDan B. is a quality contributor and well respectedDan B. is a quality contributor and well respectedDan B. is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
Quote:
The dynamic between ESPN columnist Rick Reilly, a defender of the Washington Redskins nickname, and his father-in-law, a Blackfeet elder, went from curious to awkward to just plain weird Thursday night.

Reilly, in an ESPN column last month, had written a defense of the Washington Redskins’ nickname based on comments from Bob Burns, who, Reilly wrote, had no problem with it.

On Thursday, Burns wrote a rebuttal column in which he said that not only did he have a problem with the nickname, but that his son-in-law had misquoted him and, even more surprisingly, had not set the record straight when asked to do so.

In an Indian Country Today Media Network essay, Burns wrote: “Let me be clear: The racial slur ‘redskins’ is not okay with me. It’s never going to be okay with me. It’s inappropriate, damaging and racist.”

Burns went on to describe the conversational disconnect he’d had with Reilly and finished by saying that it’s time to change the team’s name:

So you can imagine my dismay when I saw my name and words used to defend the racist Washington Redskins name. My son-in-law, ESPN’s Rick Reilly, completely misunderstood the conversation we had, quoting me as saying “the whole issue is so silly. The name just doesn’t bother me much. It’s an issue that shouldn’t be an issue, not with all the problems we’ve got in this country.”

But that’s not what I said.

What I actually said is that “it’s silly in this day and age that this should even be a battle — if the name offends someone, change it.” He failed to include my comments that the term “redskins” demeans Indians, and historically is insulting and offensive, and that I firmly believe the Washington Redskins should change their name.

When Rick’s article came out, it upset me to be portrayed as an “Uncle Tom” in support of this racial slur. I asked him to correct the record. He has not, so I must do it myself.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...kins-nickname/

If 90% of Native Americans supported the name Reilly wouldn't have to misquote Indians on the issue. Snyder wouldn't have to bring in fake Indian Chiefs for support.
Dan B. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014   #326
disaacks3
Site Contributor
 
disaacks3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Spring, TX
Section: 116 - Row M
Age: 45
Posts: 10,605
Rep Power: 137686 disaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Quote:
And I'm certainly not going to be spoon-fed some politically correct bull**** based upon misguided and ignorant political agendas.
I wonder who wrote that? Probably the same guy who (like myself) won't go out of his way to cause problems and attack others, yet can see the agendas...at least before now.
__________________
D.B. - That sounds like a nugget of reality wrapped in a layer of embellished hyperbole.
disaacks3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014   #327
Double Barrel
Modified Simian
 
Double Barrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Onward, Upward, and back into the Trees
Section: Gridiron, Tx
Age: 48
Posts: 31,092
Rep Power: 337617 Double Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
I wonder who wrote that? Probably the same guy who (like myself) won't go out of his way to cause problems and attack others, yet can see the agendas...at least before now.
Whoever said that was obviously a brilliant mind.

However, that said, I do not see this specific issue as a misguided and ignorant political agenda, although I can understand why someone else might perceive it that way.

Like I said, I completely understand where you're coming from, even though I no longer agree with my past self.
__________________
"Football is only a diversion." ~ HOUSTON TEXANS
Double Barrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 06-26-2014   #328
disaacks3
Site Contributor
 
disaacks3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Spring, TX
Section: 116 - Row M
Age: 45
Posts: 10,605
Rep Power: 137686 disaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respecteddisaacks3 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan B. View Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...kins-nickname/

If 90% of Native Americans supported the name Reilly wouldn't have to misquote Indians on the issue. Snyder wouldn't have to bring in fake Indian Chiefs for support.
Yeah, and Reilly's sort-of standing by his article sounded awfully weird.

As for whether Snyder called upon a "fake chief" himself, that's on him. (though even the deadspin article referenced him being 1/4 Aleut) You can bet your bottom $$ that the ones referenced in the Trademark suit are 100% real though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Whoever said that was obviously a brilliant mind.

However, that said, I do not see this specific issue as a misguided and ignorant political agenda, although I can understand why someone else might perceive it that way.

Like I said, I completely understand where you're coming from, even though I no longer agree with my past self.
No telling if I'll see it that way eventually, but for now it seems like the personification of giving a word power it didn't otherwise have.
__________________
D.B. - That sounds like a nugget of reality wrapped in a layer of embellished hyperbole.
disaacks3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014   #329
Dan B.
Hall of Fame
 
Dan B.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: by the construction
Age: 36
Posts: 6,726
Rep Power: 68181 Dan B. is a quality contributor and well respectedDan B. is a quality contributor and well respectedDan B. is a quality contributor and well respectedDan B. is a quality contributor and well respectedDan B. is a quality contributor and well respectedDan B. is a quality contributor and well respectedDan B. is a quality contributor and well respectedDan B. is a quality contributor and well respectedDan B. is a quality contributor and well respectedDan B. is a quality contributor and well respectedDan B. is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
Yeah, and Reilly's sort-of standing by his article sounded awfully weird.

As for whether Snyder called upon a "fake chief" himself, that's on him. (though even the deadspin article referenced him being 1/4 Aleut) You can bet your bottom $$ that the ones referenced in the Trademark suit are 100% real though.
You think that was an even more awkward Thanksgiving dinner than normal?
Dan B. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014   #330
Hervoyel
The Right Track
 
Hervoyel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 49
Posts: 14,876
Rep Power: 264272 Hervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
Honest question (since I'm such a smartass at times I'll make sure you know this is a serious question)...was the term "redskin" ever an insult? A bunch of the terms that we are comparing the name to was/is clearly an insult. For example I've been called a chink and it was always used in a way to insult me, so I know that's an insult. When it comes to the term 'redskin' I've never heard anyone casually in person, on TV, or in print ever call anyone a 'redskin' in a derog manner. Are we just making this an insult (for a cause) when it was never really ever used as one?
Maybe in the dialogue of some western movie. If I've ever heard it used as an outright insult (i.e. "Those dirty, good for nothing Redskins!" for example) then it was maybe in a movie portraying the old West.

Now people who live around Native Americans maybe have heard this. Probably have. I wouldn't doubt it a bit. Most people in the US don't however live near large concentrations of Native Americans and so it just doesn't resonate to us.
__________________
Fitz makes bad decisions. That's not going to change.
Hervoyel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014   #331
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
 
CloakNNNdagger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 16,039
Rep Power: 215632 CloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

No matter which side of the argument you fall on now with the Redskins name, this next move has got to make one take pause.

Quote:
Plaintif in Redskins Patent urges Chiefs to change their name
Posted by Michael David Smith on June 26, 2014, 12:20 PM EDT

The Washington Redskins aren’t the only NFL team whose name bothers some Native Americans.

The Kansas City Chiefs should also change their name to avoid giving offense, according to Amanda Blackhorse, the lead plaintiff in the case that the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office just decided against the Redskins.

“I’m not sure there’s anything the [Chiefs] can do at this point other than look for another name,” Blackhorse told the Kansas City Star. “They could be the team that says, ‘You know what? We understand the issue and we don’t want to be Dan Snyder and fight this in court forever. We want to do the right thing and move forward and avoid this entire battle.’ I’m sure fans will be upset, but still, that’s doing the right thing. If they want to be sensitive to Native American people, that’s the thing to do.”

Blackhorse’s sister, Kristy Blackhorse, is part of a group of Native Americans in Arizona who plan to protest at two Cardinals games this season — not only when the Redskins come to town in October, but also when the Chiefs come to town in December.

There are fundamental differences between the Chiefs and the Redskins, especially that dictionaries define “chief” as a term of respect and “redskin” as a slur. The Kansas City Chiefs have kept a low profile during the debate, hoping that they can continue to use their team name without the controversy that has swirled around the Redskins. If Blackhorse has her way, the Chiefs won’t avoid controversy for long.
CloakNNNdagger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014   #332
Marshall 
Subscribed Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,084
Rep Power: 71588 Marshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
No matter which side of the argument you fall on now with the Redskins name, this next move has got to make one take pause.
Just eliminate all teams because every name will offend someone for NO GOOD REASON. Just learn to live with being offended since it is inevitable.
Marshall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014   #333
powerfuldragon
g'mornin to you
 
powerfuldragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: your lady's sexdreams.
Age: 29
Posts: 17,102
Rep Power: 22258 powerfuldragon is a quality contributor and well respectedpowerfuldragon is a quality contributor and well respectedpowerfuldragon is a quality contributor and well respectedpowerfuldragon is a quality contributor and well respectedpowerfuldragon is a quality contributor and well respectedpowerfuldragon is a quality contributor and well respectedpowerfuldragon is a quality contributor and well respectedpowerfuldragon is a quality contributor and well respectedpowerfuldragon is a quality contributor and well respectedpowerfuldragon is a quality contributor and well respectedpowerfuldragon is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to powerfuldragon
Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

call 'em the wizards. or the senators. or the house of representativeses.
__________________
disregard above post.
powerfuldragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014   #334
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
 
htownfan32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 4,132
Rep Power: 123160 htownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

I'd be cool with Senators. As a kid I grew up as a huge Ottawa Senators fan. Still am.

GO SENS GO!
__________________
"Do not be too hard, lest you be broken; do not be too soft, lest you be squeezed."
"Know that people are of two types: they are either your brothers in religion or your equals in creation"
- Ali
htownfan32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014   #335
Marshall 
Subscribed Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,084
Rep Power: 71588 Marshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

How about a new thread listing all 32 teams and the reasons those names offend someone and add any proposed name changes as they appear.

ie Senators offends Trojans because of their historic rivalry with Greece with it's ancient heritage including the ancient Senators.

Cowboys offends the Spanish and Mexican population because they were the true originators of the job and Anglos just STOLE a piece of their heritage and renamed it Cowboys instead of the vaqueros they were intended to be.
Marshall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014   #336
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
 
htownfan32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 4,132
Rep Power: 123160 htownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respectedhtownfan32 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall View Post
How about a new thread listing all 32 teams and the reasons those names offend someone and add any proposed name changes as they appear.

ie Senators offends Trojans because of their historic rivalry with Greece with it's ancient heritage including the ancient Senators.

Cowboys offends the Spanish and Mexican population because they were the true originators of the job and Anglos just STOLE a piece of their heritage and renamed it Cowboys instead of the vaqueros they were intended to be.
1) Iffy example because Troy is not in Greece, and senators refers to Roman senators, not Athenian assemblymen. Not to mention that if Troy was destroyed by the Greeks (big if), it was destroyed by the autocratic Mycenaeans and Argives, not by the Athenians.

2) Iffy example because cattle-herding and ranching is an old tradition that doesn't belong to any culture specifically.
__________________
"Do not be too hard, lest you be broken; do not be too soft, lest you be squeezed."
"Know that people are of two types: they are either your brothers in religion or your equals in creation"
- Ali
htownfan32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014   #337
Double Barrel
Modified Simian
 
Double Barrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Onward, Upward, and back into the Trees
Section: Gridiron, Tx
Age: 48
Posts: 31,092
Rep Power: 337617 Double Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
No telling if I'll see it that way eventually, but for now it seems like the personification of giving a word power it didn't otherwise have.
I truly wish that I could articulate the thoughts of the elders that explained it to me. I simply do not possess the ability to convey their perspective from the heart, because it's not my people's history or culture.

The best I can do is try.

I did ask why there is not more resistance from Native Americans in general. They said if we honestly look at history, indigenous peoples in this country have never had a voice, much less political power to change anything. They have been resigned to be voiceless for generations, accepting the fate that the U.S. government and American society has forced upon them. As a result, many of their people are lost from their roots and do not see themselves worthy of respect. Many of them were taught in public schools to act white and ignore their people's history. That is something that I cannot imagine, but it happened and has a direct impact on this subject today.

Our conversations were much, much deeper than what I can explain. However, I truly believe that quite a few people here would listen and at least be swayed to understand, even if they ultimately disagree. I respect a great many of you and know that you are capable of challenging your own belief systems.

For me, this is not about being offended by a word. But rather, it is the consistent caricature of indigenous peoples and the shallow presentation of their very rich and diverse cultures as a common thread throughout our nation's history.

They are not cartoons. They are not villains. They are humans whose ancestors have had to endure atrocities that almost made their cultures extinct. Why we feel the need to perpetuate a symbol of that history is where the rubber meets the road for me. Pro football is just not as important as our dignity and respect. It's just a game, where for many Native Americans, this is much, much deeper.
__________________
"Football is only a diversion." ~ HOUSTON TEXANS
Double Barrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014   #338
Marshall 
Subscribed Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,084
Rep Power: 71588 Marshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respectedMarshall is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by htownfan32 View Post
1) Iffy example because Troy is not in Greece, and senators refers to Roman senators, not Athenian assemblymen. Not to mention that if Troy was destroyed by the Greeks (big if), it was destroyed by the autocratic Mycenaeans and Argives, not by the Athenians.

2) Iffy example because cattle-herding and ranching is an old tradition that doesn't belong to any culture specifically.
Just because the history is inaccurate is no reason someone would not be offended. Most offense has nothing to do with accuracy or the intent of those expressing what is offensive. It's just another case of people looking for an excuse to be offended so they aren't responsible for themselves. Blame it on someone or something else.
Marshall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014   #339
ObsiWan
Site Contributor
 
ObsiWan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: League City, Tx
Age: 62
Posts: 14,461
Rep Power: 237388 ObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
Honest question (since I'm such a smartass at times I'll make sure you know this is a serious question)...was the term "redskin" ever an insult? A bunch of the terms that we are comparing the name to was/is clearly an insult. For example I've been called a chink and it was always used in a way to insult me, so I know that's an insult. When it comes to the term 'redskin' I've never heard anyone casually in person, on TV, or in print ever call anyone a 'redskin' in a derog manner. Are we just making this an insult (for a cause) when it was never really ever used as one?
Watch some old 40s/50s/60s era westerns; Redskin in a western had the same nasty, negative connotation and vibe that Jap or Kraut (sp?) did in WWI/WWII movies. Heard it ALL the time in those flicks.
ObsiWan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014   #340
Hervoyel
The Right Track
 
Hervoyel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 49
Posts: 14,876
Rep Power: 264272 Hervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
I truly wish that I could articulate the thoughts of the elders that explained it to me. I simply do not possess the ability to convey their perspective from the heart, because it's not my people's history or culture.

The best I can do is try.

I did ask why there is not more resistance from Native Americans in general. They said if we honestly look at history, indigenous peoples in this country have never had a voice, much less political power to change anything. They have been resigned to be voiceless for generations, accepting the fate that the U.S. government and American society has forced upon them. As a result, many of their people are lost from their roots and do not see themselves worthy of respect. Many of them were taught in public schools to act white and ignore their people's history. That is something that I cannot imagine, but it happened and has a direct impact on this subject today.

Our conversations were much, much deeper than what I can explain. However, I truly believe that quite a few people here would listen and at least be swayed to understand, even if they ultimately disagree. I respect a great many of you and know that you are capable of challenging your own belief systems.

For me, this is not about being offended by a word. But rather, it is the consistent caricature of indigenous peoples and the shallow presentation of their very rich and diverse cultures as a common thread throughout our nation's history.

They are not cartoons. They are not villains. They are humans whose ancestors have had to endure atrocities that almost made their cultures extinct. Why we feel the need to perpetuate a symbol of that history is where the rubber meets the road for me. Pro football is just not as important as our dignity and respect. It's just a game, where for many Native Americans, this is much, much deeper.

You know, I've said it before but I just don't get any of that as it relates to the name of the Washington D.C. franchise but it's just not even worth fighting over (IMO, from Snyder's perspective). I don't even agree that the name should be changed for the reasons stated but I'd change it. I'd be making a big deal out of picking a new name right now and even doing some kind of poll with the fans over the team colors. Should they stay? If we're changing should we change it all? NFL teams make so much money off of merchandise that I can't imagine one passing up an opportunity to sell their entire fanbase all-new gear. Then getting to come back later and sell throwback gear (which steering well clear of the hated epithet "Redskins") Maybe use the logo but not the name when going throw back? Who knows? Who cares? Just get that name changed, shut all these people up who are upset about it, and sell more crap to fans.

It's really a win-win for everyone. If I was the Commish I'd be doing the same thing to the Chiefs. Time to get out of the Native American symbolism business.

Just to end the topic if for no other reason.
__________________
Fitz makes bad decisions. That's not going to change.
Hervoyel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > Football Talk > The National Football League
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger