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Old 06-14-2013   #81
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Default Re: [ESPN] FB Vonta Leach eyes Texans return?

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Why the hell is Kubiak spending any time on our FB situation when we've already signed a very competent player in Jones to handle that position ? He should instead direct his attention on much important personnel issues like at RT and LB (both inside and outside) ?
When asked, he answered a question. He didn't write a dissertation on it. Calm down.
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Old 06-14-2013   #82
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Default Re: [ESPN] FB Vonta Leach eyes Texans return?

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Paying two FB's in todays NFL world would be a disaster. Stop all this offseason mental masturbation over a marginal position and concentrate on real positions of weakness like DT, ILB and RT. I'd rather see Eric Winston line up at RT than Leach at FB. That includes passing downs and distances. RT should be more of a concern than FB at this stage of the game. Leach is just a "name" that we are familiar with but should be considered less of an improvement at a position than Winston.
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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Why the hell is Kubiak spending any time on our FB situation when we've already signed a very competent player in Jones to handle that position ? He should instead direct his attention on much important personnel issues like at RT and LB (both inside and outside) ?
If we can improve team, why is any position trivial? Why cannot we and Kubiak focus on multi areas? If Winston make his price right, he could be signed as well as Vontae; but maybe just maybe Kubiak sees Harris, Newton and Williams as ample to fill the position. Prior to his injury, Derek was looking good and Gary has constantly said so. Most recent feedback is Newton and Williams will be available in training camp. Nothing negative has been said about Ryan Harris and he should be better as will Gardner. Until proven different, I really like our options on Oline.

Did we really have a good option at FB last season? Perhaps that is why we used one 35% as quoted elsewhere. We went with what we had especially with AJ having great season. A healthy Tate and Foster with fewer attempts behind a rotation of Jones and Leach would be awesome. A strong, fresh FB in almost every play is a good thing for team. We all want to keep the opponent's defense on the field.
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Old 06-14-2013   #83
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Default Re: [ESPN] FB Vonta Leach eyes Texans return?

I don't get the Vonta hate - as if adding a good player to any position is some how depleting another area. And let's not forget his ST ability. If they can't fit him under the cap it won't happen. If they can, it very well may.

It's really simple stuff. Don't over think this people.
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Old 06-14-2013   #84
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Default Re: [ESPN] FB Vonta Leach eyes Texans return?

More protection for Schaub > than numbers can count.
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Old 06-14-2013   #85
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Default Re: [ESPN] FB Vonta Leach eyes Texans return?

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Originally Posted by PapaL View Post
When asked, he answered a question. He didn't write a dissertation on it. Calm down.
Jones made a commitment to play for the Texas, so the Texans reciprocate by talking openly and publically about perhaps negotiating with a second FB prospect which is the same as saying they might release Jones. Is Kubiak out of line for doing it, not technically but not really good for Jone's morale or for that matter team morale ? Kubiak is usually pretty tight-lipped, but for whatever reason he had a garrulous moment that serves no purpose.
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Old 06-14-2013   #86
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Default Re: [ESPN] FB Vonta Leach eyes Texans return?

I always consider adding talented players on the cheap, but I dont know who deserves the boot to make room for him on the roster.

Cap Space? How much does he want?
Roster Space? Who gets released?
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Old 06-14-2013   #87
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Default Re: [ESPN] FB Vonta Leach eyes Texans return?

I haven't read the whole thread through, but there is the fact that Vonta is a known quantity in this system, and I'm sure that the Jones contract allows him to be a cheap TC cut.

Is it possible that, in our system, we can get better at FB and save money by doing this.

Both guys have made their money now and Jones would catch on elsewhere pretty damn quick. You can't really get upset at a multi-millionaire losing a few quid in the NFL.
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Old 06-14-2013   #88
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Default Re: [ESPN] FB Vonta Leach eyes Texans return?

My thoughts:

I like Vonta a lot and I was upset he left at the time. However, if we're going to use some of our limited money I'd rather spend it on a position of need. I'm kinda kickin myself for what I'm getting ready to say. BUT, I'd use the money on the RT position by bringing Winston back (depending on $, of course). I know, I know, I was one of the one's that harped on him a lot and was satisfied with letting him go. Given what I saw last year and what we're looking at thus far, I'd do it.

I'm willing to bet we've already looked into it and he might've wanted more than we could spend. I dunno, but I remain very skeptical of an injured rook, an injured and below average Newton, a 6th round rook from a small school and a career back up in.
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Old 06-14-2013   #89
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Default Re: [ESPN] FB Vonta Leach eyes Texans return?

I don't see how this would work unless he was signed to a non-guaranteed contract and could be cut in TC if he wasn't as good as Jones in our system. I highly doubt that he refused to re-structure his contract with the Ravens so he could come down to Houston on an extended try-out.
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Old 06-14-2013   #90
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Default Re: [ESPN] FB Vonta Leach eyes Texans return?

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
I don't see how this would work unless he was signed to a non-guaranteed contract and could be cut in TC if he wasn't as good as Jones in our system. I highly doubt that he refused to re-structure his contract with the Ravens so he could come down to Houston on an extended try-out.
May not be the case. To apply some ball park numbers to what Leach may be seeking. From BaltimoreRavens.com :


Quote:
“The obvious answer is ultimately, the Ravens decided that they needed the salary cap space more than Leach and it just didn’t make sense for essentially a part-time player to take up $4.33 million in cap room,” Zrebiec wrote. “Still, the pending move does spur some questions …

Quote:
And while paying $3 million to a part-time player at a position that is fading in the NFL was almost certainly a factor, the timing of Leach’s cut also coincides with the Ravens’ ability to get a good look at their fourth-round draft pick Kyle Juszczyk. After a few weeks of practice, the team has a better idea of whether he’s capable to take over the starting fullback role.

“[The Ravens] wanted to keep [Leach] and thought they’d be able to work something out,” wrote Zrebiec. “If they didn’t, they would have made the move immediately after they drafted Harvard’s Kyle Juszczyk in the fourth round in April. However, as they got closer to training camp, the Ravens’ top decision makers ultimately put more value on salary cap space than Leach’s skill set.

“It’s also important to point out that the team has had several weeks now to evaluate Juszczyk. If they didn’t think he could handle the role, they wouldn’t have made the move.”

Leach Moving On Quickly, Teams Showing Interest

When the Ravens announced Leach’s release, Newsome left the door open for the fullback to return after he’s explored the free agent market.

At this point, a Leach return doesn’t appear likely as several teams are reportedly showing interest.

Leach is scheduled for a visit with the Miami Dolphins, and the Denver Broncos and Kansas City Chiefs may also make a play for the fullback, reports USA Today’s Mike Garafolo. The Star-Ledger reported the New York Giants have "reached out" to Leach.

For Leach to return, these teams would have to offer less than the Ravens. According to Garafolo, Ravens executives were asking for roughly a $1 million pay cut, which he could have made back via playtime and Pro Bowl incentives.

If Leach had his way, he would return to the Houston Texans, where he played from 2006 to 2010 and led the way for running back Arian Foster.

"My first choice would be to come back to Houston," Leach told KRIV-TV, per NFL.com. "I know the offense. I know all the guys there. So obviously that would be my first choice so I can go back there and finish my career where it started to blossom.
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Old 06-14-2013   #91
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Default Re: [ESPN] FB Vonta Leach eyes Texans return?

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Jones made a commitment to play for the Texas, so the Texans reciprocate by talking openly and publically about perhaps negotiating with a second FB prospect which is the same as saying they might release Jones. Is Kubiak out of line for doing it, not technically but not really good for Jone's morale or for that matter team morale ? Kubiak is usually pretty tight-lipped, but for whatever reason he had a garrulous moment that serves no purpose.
Jones signed a contract and is ready to play. And he looks like a guy comes to play hard. He doesn't seem to be the kind of wuss who would sit around and think of things to pout about. Doesn't seem like the kind of player that would sit around and sulk because there might be some competition at his position.

but that's just my take...

...seems like you're proposing he would be
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Old 06-15-2013   #92
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Default Re: [ESPN] FB Vonta Leach eyes Texans return?

From the Sun-Sentinel:

Quote:
The Dolphins, whom Leach visited on Wednesday, and the Houston Texans are the two teams openly pursuing the three-time Pro Bowler, who is viewed as one of the NFL’s best lead blockers. USA Today claims the Kansas City Chiefs and Denver Broncos might reach out to Leach, and the Newark Star-Ledger reported that the New York Giants have “reached out” to Leach’s camp.
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Old 06-15-2013   #93
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Default Re: [ESPN] FB Vonta Leach eyes Texans return?

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Spot on. Subterfuge, administered out of respect for Leach mind you, may be the operative word here.
Remember, too, there's no love lost between Texans & Jeff Ireland. Ireland blocked the Texans from adding Sage Rosenfels when Schaub & Leinart went down. Miami had no use for him, but waited until after we had signed two backups to waive him. Worked out well with T.J., but still...
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Old 06-15-2013   #94
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Default Re: [ESPN] FB Vonta Leach eyes Texans return?

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Jones in theory is the better runner but he hasn't received any significant carries in 6 years.
To be fair... neither has Vonta. I was not a fan of him getting the ball. He is super stiff when it comes to catching or carrying.

As an aside, I am neither for nor against signing Vonta Leach. This is a debate that is above my means. I like Leach and think he's sledgehammer. I also like Jones.
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Old 06-15-2013   #95
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Default Re: [ESPN] FB Vonta Leach eyes Texans return?

I like Leach but I also don't really care if it's him or Jones at FB. I don't think there's that big of difference between the two. At age 31 and 32, both players are close in age. I think it would come down to money and Greg Jones is playing for peanuts this year for us. I don't see it happening.

Ben Tate is currently wearing Vonta's old #44...random fact.


http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/pos...nt-chase-leach

"It would mean the Texans swallow $400,000 guaranteed of Jones’ one-year, $1 million contract. A team that’s tight against the cap can’t be throwing $400,000 away on a guy they don’t ever let take the field and have no complaint with."

"I asked a scout if Leach is better than Jones.

“Not better, just different,” he said. “Jones is very versatile, can run with ball, solid hands, good athlete. Leach is a blocker first, can catch but not going to be a threat.”

How much better a blocker, I asked.

“Not enough,” he said. “I would rather have the versatile player.”"
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Old 06-15-2013   #96
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Default Re: [ESPN] FB Vonta Leach eyes Texans return?

If you aren't improving, your losing.

I think this is much about nothing. IIRC Gary has stated that they are always looking for ways to improve the ball club no matter what.

But it is good for offseason talk
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Old 06-15-2013   #97
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Default Re: [ESPN] FB Vonta Leach eyes Texans return?

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I like Leach but I also don't really care if it's him or Jones at FB. I don't think there's that big of difference between the two. At age 31 and 32, both players are close in age. I think it would come down to money and Greg Jones is playing for peanuts this year for us. I don't see it happening.

Ben Tate is currently wearing Vonta's old #44...random fact.


http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/pos...nt-chase-leach

"It would mean the Texans swallow $400,000 guaranteed of Jones’ one-year, $1 million contract. A team that’s tight against the cap can’t be throwing $400,000 away on a guy they don’t ever let take the field and have no complaint with."

"I asked a scout if Leach is better than Jones.

“Not better, just different,” he said. “Jones is very versatile, can run with ball, solid hands, good athlete. Leach is a blocker first, can catch but not going to be a threat.”

How much better a blocker, I asked.

“Not enough,” he said. “I would rather have the versatile player.”"
ESPN speaks of swallowing $400,000 guaranteed money. This is not technically correct. Spotrac lays out his guaranteed money as his $160,000 signing bonus + ONLY $80,000 of his base 2013 $840,000 salary = $240,000.
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Old 06-15-2013   #98
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Default Re: [ESPN] FB Vonta Leach eyes Texans return?

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I like Leach but I also don't really care if it's him or Jones at FB. I don't think there's that big of difference between the two. At age 31 and 32, both players are close in age. I think it would come down to money and Greg Jones is playing for peanuts this year for us. I don't see it happening.

Ben Tate is currently wearing Vonta's old #44...random fact.


http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/pos...nt-chase-leach

"It would mean the Texans swallow $400,000 guaranteed of Jones’ one-year, $1 million contract. A team that’s tight against the cap can’t be throwing $400,000 away on a guy they don’t ever let take the field and have no complaint with."

"I asked a scout if Leach is better than Jones.

“Not better, just different,” he said. “Jones is very versatile, can run with ball, solid hands, good athlete. Leach is a blocker first, can catch but not going to be a threat.”

How much better a blocker, I asked.

“Not enough,” he said. “I would rather have the versatile player.”"
Given the right side of our line, I'd rather have the Pro Bowl blocking FB.
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Old 06-15-2013   #99
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Default Re: [ESPN] FB Vonta Leach eyes Texans return?

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Given the right side of our line, I'd rather have the Pro Bowl blocking FB.
Jones was a Pro Bowl Alt in '07 and Leach has gone twice. Personally, Pro Bowl FB means to much to me as Pro Bowl ST'er.

Both guys have proven not only a willingness but a desire to block.
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Old 06-15-2013   #100
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Default Re: [ESPN] FB Vonta Leach eyes Texans return?

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Jones was a Pro Bowl Alt in '07 and Leach has gone twice. Personally, Pro Bowl FB means to much to me as Pro Bowl ST'er.

Both guys have proven not only a willingness but a desire to block.
Leach is a 3 timer and 3 time 1st team All Pro. Jones is excellent and I was very glad to see the Texans sign him. Aside from ordinary duties, Leach is an enforcer. I don't know either way about Jones on that.
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