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Old 08-23-2013   #101
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Default Re: Ed Reed may miss games now

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Yeah, if you truly believe that, you're crazy.
Yes, I truly believe that Quin is a better player today than Ed Reed is. And being called crazy by you, I'm OK with.
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Old 08-23-2013   #102
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Default Re: Ed Reed may miss games now

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
This is silly. Has nothing to do with nothing. If they wanted to keep Quin, they could have & sign Cushing & sign Watt. If they want to, they'll find a way, they always do.
There is truth to the concept that money never has to stop an NFL team from signing somebody they want to. It will however stop an NFL team from signing everybody they want to. More importantly, if they're not careful about who the "Somebodies" are, they're going to quickly end up with a very few somebodies, and a very many nobodies.
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Old 08-23-2013   #103
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Default Re: Ed Reed may miss games now

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Originally Posted by Blake View Post
What are your thoghts on keeping money available for next year and Cushing/Watt signings? Reed can be off the books after this year. Quin would be on for another 4 years at a vets 2nd contract price.
I've said many times I don't play the cap management game. There are guys here who have that stuff down pretty well, but I am not one of them. It's an area where I remain blissfully ignorant. That said, I don't see it as a problem. $5M a year is not where they'll run into cap problems, especially for a younger player. And Ed Reed can be off the books next year, but using that thought process, he could have been off the books this year by never signing him. Also worth noting that Manning won't be here forever, either.

If Ed Reed plays the season for the Texans, then they basically ended up paying the same amount of money for roughly equivalent play (we hope). And then Reed can be sent packing. OK, that's fine, especially with DJS waiting in the wings. But the much bigger risk is that Reed doesn't play a full season, doesn't play as well as he did when he was younger, continues his poor form from last season, and or doesn't ever play a single down for the Texans. And what's the reward for taking that risk? Does anyone actually think we're going to see a resurgent HOF-caliber Ed Reed wearing a Texans uni? At best, he's as good as the guy he replaced. So the risk vs. reward is not worthwhile.

And before anyone gets it in their head that I'm some sort of Quin apologist or fan, that's not the case. I think he's a solid player, and I don't see a ton more upside than what he's shown. He'll never be anything close to what Ed Reed WAS. All I'm interested in is whether that position has been upgraded.

I predict that it hasn't been, on the basis of the Quin-Reed exchange. I just hope Swearinger progresses quickly enough to change the equation.
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Old 08-23-2013   #104
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Default Re: Ed Reed may miss games now

....and in other news Michael Huff played well last night.
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Old 08-23-2013   #105
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Default Re: Ed Reed may miss games now

eriadoc, you sound ignorant.

Reed and Quinn are completely different types of players. We struggles last year against the pass when we played top tier QB's. Ed Reed was brought in because those are the kinds of teams we'll likely have to beat to get to the Superbowl.

If the teams we needed to beat were built like the Vikings with a beat RB that liked to give it to him a lot, then Quinn would probably be a better fit.

They got Reed to help us try to be better against the pass. Not sure how you don't get that.
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Old 08-23-2013   #106
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Default Re: Ed Reed may miss games now

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....and in other news Michael Huff played well last night.
So did Quin, actually. Forced a fumble on a nice hit. The Lions just beat the crap out of Brady LOL. It was nice to see.
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Old 08-23-2013   #107
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Default Re: Ed Reed may miss games now

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Originally Posted by Blake View Post
You just got done telling me that the Texans could sign Quin, Watt and Cushing if they wanted to. Then that they have someone who knows how to manage the cap when sometimes managing the cap means not signing a Glover Quin for 5 years 23 million.

I am not saying they HAD to pass on Quin to get Cushing and Watt, but that it might be a good idea when you are going after guys that are going to command alot of money. But I guess that is "silly" to you.
They had an opportunity to sign Ed Reed.

They wanted to sign Ed Reed.

They had to find a way to do that, that made sense.

I'd have dumped Danieal Manning, but that would have hurt us the most.

They chose not to bring back Glover Quin. To offset his youth vs Reed's, they also drafted Swearinger.

There isn't a lot of difference between Reed's contract & Glovers. Reed isn't going anywhere for the next three years. We will resign Cushing & Watt, regardless.

We may have to let OD go, less he restructures. We may let Antonio Smith go ($9M). They might restructure Schaub/Andre.

If they think it's important, they'll manage the cap to keep the players they feel are important to keep.
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Old 08-23-2013   #108
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Default Re: Ed Reed may miss games now

Yes, you keep the core group of players by the rule of 20/80 as somebody had posted a great article about cap management some time ago.

Those ten players that occupy the most cap spaces currently are:
AJ, JJo, Ninja, Schaub, Foster, Myers, OD, Manning, Brown, and Cushing.

Next you need to keep an eyes on upcoming contracts for Cush, KJax, Graham, and Mitchell in 2014; possibly Ninja's last contract as well.
And then on to 2015 for Watt, etc.
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Old 08-23-2013   #109
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Default Re: Ed Reed may miss games now

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
eriadoc, you sound ignorant.
Pot, kettle, whatever.

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Reed and Quinn are completely different types of players. We struggles last year against the pass when we played top tier QB's. Ed Reed was brought in because those are the kinds of teams we'll likely have to beat to get to the Superbowl.

If the teams we needed to beat were built like the Vikings with a beat RB that liked to give it to him a lot, then Quinn would probably be a better fit.

They got Reed to help us try to be better against the pass. Not sure how you don't get that.
I do get that. But what you seem to be ignorant of is:

1.) It doesn't matter what kind of player Ed Reed USED TO BE. He's not the center fielder he used to be.

2.) Ed Reed's not going to be the center fielder he used to be with a hip that Bo Jackson doesn't want.

3.) It doesn't matter what kind of player Ed Reed was or is when he's on the sidelines wearing a ball cap.

4.) The rules have evolved over the years to the point that teams like the Pats, Saints, Packers, et al, are going to pass on you and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. You're not allowed to separate the ball from the receiver anymore, because he's "defenseless" (guess all those pads don't count). You can't do much of anything to receivers anymore, and you have to let them catch the ball and take a couple steps before you're allowed to hit them. And even then, you have to hit them in a narrowly defined hit zone. So passing offenses are going to continue passing for more and more yards. The defenses are just going to have to bend without breaking until they get to the red zone, where the passing game gets a little tougher and center fielders don't matter quite so much.

If Ed Reed comes in and plays better than he did last year, then it's a great signing. I've basically said that several times. I just don't see it happening, and I don't see the reward being worth the risk, in this particular case.
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Old 08-23-2013   #110
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Default Re: Ed Reed may miss games now

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Pot, kettle, whatever.

I do get that. But what you seem to be ignorant of is:

1.) It doesn't matter what kind of player Ed Reed USED TO BE. He's not the center fielder he used to be.
There is no pot kettle. That's a figment of your imagination.

No one has said anything about reed being the centerfield we he used to be. That's you trying to create a false argument to argue against.

What has been said is that Reed was brought in to upgrade our pass defense which is what we needed.

Quinn is a better player that Danieal Manning. They would be playing similar type roles.

But where your ignorance is showing is that we needed a player with reeds skill set regardless of whether Quinn was here or not. Just do happens Quinn's deal was up and we had a chance to grab Reed.

But you sound silly making up arguments. No one thinks reed is going to be vintage Reed. Yeah right.


As far as your number 4, that is the weakest argument yet. Can't stop it so don't try...silly.
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Old 08-23-2013   #111
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Default Re: Ed Reed may miss games now

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
1.) It doesn't matter what kind of player Ed Reed USED TO BE. He's not the center fielder he used to be.
2012 INT's - Ed Reed 4
2009-2012 INT's - Quinn 5
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Old 08-23-2013   #112
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Default Re: Ed Reed may miss games now

The way the Texans utilized Quin; Manning and Swearinger are supposed to take turn at that spot while Reed is supposed to take over Manning/Demps deep spot(s).

If they had kept Quin, I imagine they would have been looking for a different type of safety; none was outstanding in the draft.
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Old 08-23-2013   #113
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Default Re: Ed Reed may miss games now

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
If Ed Reed comes in and plays better than he did last year, then it's a great signing. I've basically said that several times. I just don't see it happening, and I don't see the reward being worth the risk, in this particular case.
If we compare Glover's stats to Reed's stats next year, I predict Glover is going to have the better numbers. But I think Reed's impact is going to be Tom Brady waiting a fraction of a second longer before letting the ball fly. Hopefully that will allow Whitney, Watt, etc... to finish.

In the end, if we get to the AFC Championship game, I'm going to say it was worth it, regardless what kind of year Glover has (I'm predicting pro bowl).

That's if Ed Reed gives us any significant minutes on the field & I believe he will.

Regardless how many games Ed Reed plays, or how many tackles he misses or how many INTs he has...... if we're not in the AFC Championship game when it's all said & done, I'll feel we wasted our time & money... that it was a bad move.
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Old 08-23-2013   #114
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Default Re: Ed Reed may miss games now

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
2012 INT's - Ed Reed 4
2009-2012 INT's - Quinn 5
To go along with that...

2012 Sacks - HOU 44
2012 Sacks - BAL 37
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Old 08-23-2013   #115
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Default Re: Ed Reed may miss games now

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
If we compare Glover's stats to Reed's stats next year, I predict Glover is going to have the better numbers. But I think Reed's impact is going to be Tom Brady waiting a fraction of a second longer before letting the ball fly. Hopefully that will allow Whitney, Watt, etc... to finish.

In the end, if we get to the AFC Championship game, I'm going to say it was worth it, regardless what kind of year Glover has (I'm predicting pro bowl).

That's if Ed Reed gives us any significant minutes on the field & I believe he will.

Regardless how many games Ed Reed plays, or how many tackles he misses or how many INTs he has...... if we're not in the AFC Championship game when it's all said & done, I'll feel we wasted our time & money... that it was a bad move.

I 98.89% agree with that.
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Old 08-23-2013   #116
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Default Re: Ed Reed may miss games now

Reed had 4 minus pass coverage games last season: Raiders, @Redskins, Broncos, and conferance championship @Patriots. (Super Bowl was on the cusp of a minus game.)

He had 6 plus pass coverage games: Bengals, Patriots, Browns, @Browns, @Chargers, Steelers.

Overall he rated 17th* out of 88 Safties in coverage -- >25% team snaps -- by ProFootballFocus.

* Manning rated 41st out of 88, Demps 54th, Quin 66th.
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Old 08-23-2013   #117
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Default Re: Ed Reed may miss games now

fwiw....in 2012 PFF had Reed rated at +4.5 (#18 best) in pass coverage to Quins -1.6 (#66 best) in coverage. Quin much better against the run and as was noted, different types of players.

Manning, Swearinger, and Reed all have strengths and weaknesses... but the leadership and experience future HOF Reed brings to this D is invaluable.
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Old 08-23-2013   #118
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Default Re: Ed Reed may miss games now

I think some here are under-valuing the intangibles Reed brings. Look at the way the D folded down the stretch. Even at his reduced state, he can still play center fielder reasonably well.

More importantly, he's a guy with a rep. And folks like Mr. Manning and Mr. Brady know that rep and I know they look at film - I get that. Still, they have a decade long history with this guy and having him back there is a psychological plus imo.

Secondly, it's a psychological boost for the other 10 guys out there. Again, somewhat based off of rep more than current reality, but there is something reassuring about having a coach on the field out there, and his on field leadership, and making sure guys are aware of formations etc,.and lined up correctly is a huge plus imo.

Let's also not under estimate also his locker room presence. Having a guy with that kind of reputation, ability, and leadership can only help bring young guys along more quickly and better.

Is he worth it? In my humble opinion, yes. Worth every penny.

My guess is he's starting week 3. Not sure if he'll make an appearance in the first 2 games.
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Old 08-23-2013   #119
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Default Re: Ed Reed may miss games now

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Originally Posted by Tailgate View Post
fwiw....in 2012 PFF had Reed rated at +4.5 (#18 best) in pass coverage to Quins -1.6 (#66 best) in coverage. Quin much better against the run and as was noted, different types of players.

Manning, Swearinger, and Reed all have strengths and weaknesses... but the leadership and experience future HOF Reed brings to this D is invaluable.
I just finished watching the first half of the Lions/Browns game.
Quin looks pretty much the same guy we saw last year; good near the LOS and in run support, with wart in coverage.
Got beat twice, one resulting in a TD.
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Old 08-23-2013   #120
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Default Re: Ed Reed may miss games now

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Originally Posted by Porky View Post
I think some here are under-valuing the intangibles Reed brings. Look at the way the D folded down the stretch. Even at his reduced state, he can still play center fielder reasonably well.

More importantly, he's a guy with a rep. And folks like Mr. Manning and Mr. Brady know that rep and I know they look at film - I get that. Still, they have a decade long history with this guy and having him back there is a psychological plus imo.

Secondly, it's a psychological boost for the other 10 guys out there. Again, somewhat based off of rep more than current reality, but there is something reassuring about having a coach on the field out there, and his on field leadership, and making sure guys are aware of formations etc,.and lined up correctly is a huge plus imo.

Let's also not under estimate also his locker room presence. Having a guy with that kind of reputation, ability, and leadership can only help bring young guys along more quickly and better.

Is he worth it? In my humble opinion, yes. Worth every penny.

My guess is he's starting week 3. Not sure if he'll make an appearance in the first 2 games.
This. This. THIS!

the main reason they brought him here. Everyone including the coaching staff and front office knew the team just **** the proverbial bed at the end of the season. Reading too many of their own stories and drinking their own Kool-Aid. Reed WILL NOT let that happen.
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