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Old 06-05-2013   #21
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Default Re: Top 20 Players in the AFC South, Texans with 9

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
JJ Watt is a tremendous football player who's also very young which of course makes him even much more valuable, but he's not a QB and you can bet the Texans wouldn't blink an eye if they got a chance to make that deal for Luck.
The Texans had every opportunity to enter the suck for Luck fray, but chose not to.

Besides, this isn't about the player with the most upside poll. It's the top 20 players. Like you said, Jj Watt is a tremendous player & Andrew Luck might be.

Andrew Luck isn't even the best QB in the AFC South, much less player. He might have the most upside, the brightest future, whatever you want to call it. But he's not the best QB, much less player, in the AFC South.
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Old 06-05-2013   #22
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Default Re: Top 20 Players in the AFC South, Texans with 9

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
JJ Watt is a tremendous football player who's also very young which of course makes him even much more valuable, but he's not a QB and you can bet the Texans wouldn't blink an eye if they got a chance to make that deal for Luck.
I would trade JJ Watt for Andrew Luck, and I would also say that JJ Watt is a vastly better player than Andrew Luck (at this point in time).

Your argument is a red herring.
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Old 06-05-2013   #23
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Default Re: Top 20 Players in the AFC South, Texans with 9

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JJ Watt is a tremendous football player who's also very young which of course makes him even much more valuable, but he's not a QB and you can bet the Texans wouldn't blink an eye if they got a chance to make that deal for Luck.
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Unfortunately, this is true. JJ Watt is currently the face of our franchise, and doing an awesome job at that. He will soon be the highest paid defensive player in history. But he ain't a QB, and this is a QB driven league.
Y'all are assuming Luck turns into Manning or Brady. Your opinions look a lot more sketchy if you envision the next Bradford, Palmer or Rivers.
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Old 06-05-2013   #24
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Default Re: Top 20 Players in the AFC South, Texans with 9

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Unfortunately, this is true. JJ Watt is currently the face of our franchise, and doing an awesome job at that. He will soon be the highest paid defensive player in history. But he ain't a QB, and this is a QB driven league.
I bet Jj's effort will go a lot further than Luck's efforts towards winning the AFC South next season.
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Old 06-05-2013   #25
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Default Re: Top 20 Players in the AFC South, Texans with 9

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Y'all are assuming Luck turns into Manning or Brady. Your opinions look a lot more sketchy if you envision the next Bradford, Palmer or Rivers.
Luck wouldn't need to be a HOFer like Manning or Brady, just a very good NFL QB who was a reliable starter for at least 9-10 years for the deal to be a no brainer for the Texans, even if JJ ultimately went to the HOF as a Colt.
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Old 06-05-2013   #26
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Default Re: Top 20 Players in the AFC South, Texans with 9

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Originally Posted by Say Watt View Post


I don't know why but for some reason that post reminded me of the scene towards the end of Billy Madison with the whole, "At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
I didn't think of that while writing it, but it does have that tone. At least with some of other non-posting contributors (emDiggy, Battleredblog guys), their work has merit and analysis. Some guy makes a list of players with no justifications for anything, and there's really not much to discuss. It's lazy and belongs on Bleacherreport. Anyone can do that, look:

Top 8 AFC Head Coaches:

1. Bill Belicheck
2. John Harbaugh
3. Mike Tomlin
4. Peyton Manning
5. Gary Kubiak
6. Marvin Lewis
7. Mike Munchak
8. Andy Reid


Honorable Mentions:
Rob Chudzinski
Rex Ryan
Chuck Pagano
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Old 06-05-2013   #27
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Default Re: Top 20 Players in the AFC South, Texans with 9

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Luck wouldn't need to be a HOFer like Manning or Brady, just a very good NFL QB who was a reliable starter for at least 9-10 years for the deal to be a no brainer for the Texans, even if JJ ultimately went to the HOF as a Colt.
That's like saying teams would line up to trade JJ for Schaub after his 1st year as a Texan.
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Old 06-05-2013   #28
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Default Re: Top 20 Players in the AFC South, Texans with 9

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That's like saying teams would line up to trade JJ for Schaub after his 1st year as a Texan.
Schaub after one year in Houston = Andrew Luck after one year in Indy ? As Texans' fans, you and I could only wish that to be true. Schaub at any point in his career never had close to the upside Luck enjoys today.
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Old 06-05-2013   #29
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Default Re: Top 20 Players in the AFC South, Texans with 9

Funny because with all those players I'm already seeing this. Don't agree with it entirely but have seen similar talk.

@evansilva#Texans play in weak division, probably still win 9-10, but I think their window has closed. Will need overhaul sooner rather than later.
1:53pm - 5 Jun 13

@evansilva Good team with arrow pointing down = #Texans. Game-manager QB becoming liability. O-centerpiece RB overworked, already inj. Ed Reed FA bust.
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Old 06-05-2013   #30
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Default Re: Top 20 Players in the AFC South, Texans with 9

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Schaub after one year in Houston = Andrew Luck after one year in Indy ? As Texans' fans, you and I could only wish that to be true. Schaub at any point in his career never had close to the upside Luck enjoys today.
Sounds like Schaub hate. You said.......
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Luck wouldn't need to be a HOFer like Manning or Brady, just a very good NFL QB who was a reliable starter for at least 9-10 years for the deal to be a no brainer for the Texans, even if JJ ultimately went to the HOF as a Colt.
In 7 years, Schaub's been pretty good, & he's been reliable. More reliable than say.. Ben Roethlisberger anyway.

Now you're saying Schaub never had "that" kind of upside? Two years ago the Texans "should have" been in the Super Bowl if Schaub would have been healthy. For most of 2012, the Texans were considered the best team in the league & Schaub was part of that.

If you're taking HOF off the table. If you're taking Peyton-like & Brady-like off the table, then yeah... You are saying you'd trade HOF Jj Watt for Tony Romo, Phillip Rivers, Carson Palmer, Matt Schaub.
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Old 06-05-2013   #31
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Default Re: Top 20 Players in the AFC South, Texans with 9

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Luck wouldn't need to be a HOFer like Manning or Brady, just a very good NFL QB who was a reliable starter for at least 9-10 years for the deal to be a no brainer for the Texans, even if JJ ultimately went to the HOF as a Colt.
you mean like... saaaay a Matt Schaub or a Carlson Palmer or a Donavan McNabb...?

You'd trade J.J. Watt or a shutdown CB (when fully healthy) like J. Joe for one of those guys??

And we don't know if Luck will even be THAT good yet.

Naaah... not me.
But each to his own.
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Old 06-05-2013   #32
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Default Re: Top 20 Players in the AFC South, Texans with 9

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Schaub after one year in Houston = Andrew Luck after one year in Indy ? As Texans' fans, you and I could only wish that to be true. Schaub at any point in his career never had close to the upside Luck enjoys today.
Upside is all in the mind of the beholder until shown to be true.

Amobi Okoye had "upside". Flashed talent his rookie year too. How'd that "upside" work? Coming out of college Brady Quinn had "upside". Hell some folks thought David Carr had upside.

I know you gotta put your chips on rookies sometime or you'll end up like George Allen with a team full of old farts. I get that.

But I'm not trading proven commodities like Watt and Joseph on a maybe. No matter how much that maybe is hyped.

Like I said, each to his own.
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Old 06-05-2013   #33
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Default Re: Top 20 Players in the AFC South, Texans with 9

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Upside is all in the mind of the beholder until shown to be true.
Upside is also a result of the starting point. Luck had a miserable 54.1 completion % - he needs a good 10% improvement. Nobody could reasonably expect Schaub to add 10% to his 66.4% 1st year completion %.

I am not slagging Luck at all, I just don't think he had a year close to as impressive as Russell Wilson but one much more like Carson Palmer, Rivers, etc.
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Old 06-05-2013   #34
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Default Re: Top 20 Players in the AFC South, Texans with 9

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I am not slagging Luck at all, I just don't think he had a year close to as impressive as Russell Wilson but one much more like Carson Palmer, Rivers, etc.
I'm slagging him. The guy just doesn't look like the best prospect since David Carr (if you remember, Carr was at one time thought to be a no miss franchise QB). He looked like a rookie to me. Sure, he was doing some things you only see 10 year vets do, but he showed us plenty that he was without a doubt, a rookie.

Last year, it looked like they were fine with Luck being Luck & they gave him all kinds of freedom to do what he do. But sooner or later, they're going to ask him to start learning some NFL QB stuff.

I'm not saying I don't think he can handle it, I have no idea. But I want to see him actually develop. If he's who they say he is then he can definitely be the next Brady, or Manning. But if he just rides his God given talent for the next 10 years, he's the next McNabb, the next Romo.
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Old 06-05-2013   #35
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Default Re: Top 20 Players in the AFC South, Texans with 9

Wow i cant believe i am seeing some here say they would trade JJ for Luck. Watt has been a big time game changer, Luck had an ok season last year. JJ has had 2 amazing seasons and we know what we got with him, luck not so much.

Lord where did loyalty go ? Especially for a guy who plays his heart out for us, Seems like a lot of you are ready to put luck in the HOF. Not quite yet folks. on the other hand JJ had the best season ever for a player at his position, get real people.
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Old 06-05-2013   #36
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Default Re: Top 20 Players in the AFC South, Texans with 9

8 of the first 11 ranked players seems pretty good.
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Old 06-05-2013   #37
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Default Re: Top 20 Players in the AFC South, Texans with 9

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Wow i cant believe i am seeing some here say they would trade JJ for Luck. Watt has been a big time game changer, Luck had an ok season last year. JJ has had 2 amazing seasons and we know what we got with him, luck not so much.

Lord where did loyalty go ? Especially for a guy who plays his heart out for us, Seems like a lot of you are ready to put luck in the HOF. Not quite yet folks. on the other hand JJ had the best season ever for a player at his position, get real people.
My comment in no way means any disrespect for the great young talent Watt is, it's just that QB is far and away the single most important position in the NFL. If given the chance, I'm confidant that any team in this league including the Texans that doesn't have a promising young QB would trade ANY single player they have straight up for Luck.
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Old 06-05-2013   #38
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Default Re: Top 20 Players in the AFC South, Texans with 9

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My comment in no way means any disrespect for the great young talent Watt is, it's just that QB is far and away the single most important position in the NFL. If given the chance, I'm confidant that any team in this league including the Texans that doesn't have a promising young QB would trade ANY single player they have straight up for Luck.
You think the Broncos would trade Manning, The Patriots would trade Brady? The Vikings would trade Peterson?

For the third best rookie QB of 2012? That's insane & would be too big a gamble, I think, for those players, or even Jj Watt.

The QB is a big piece of the puzzle, but even the Colts took several years to win it all with one of the best of our generation. The organization from top to bottom has to be perfectly aligned & there's been way too many changes in Indy to think they've struck gold a second time..... from top to bottom.

Odds are against it regardless how good Luck is. A promising young QB couldn't win a play off game in Atlanta for 4 years. StLouis & Detroit appear to be going nowhere fast. & these were very good prospects, not Jamarcus/Vince prospects.

It would be something, if Luck turns out as good as Phillip Rivers & he hasn't won anything in the NFL.
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Old 06-06-2013   #39
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Default Re: Top 20 Players in the AFC South, Texans with 9

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For the third best rookie QB of 2012? That's insane & would be too big a gamble, I think, for those players, or even Jj Watt.
3rd best? And we're talking upside, too, right, out of an amazing football class?

More like Luck was the 4th best, and he was barely ahead of Tannehill in QB rating, but Luck didn't have as good a completion % Tannehill.

Or let me put it this way on the upside scale:

1.) RGIII
2.) Russell Wilson
3.) Nick Foles
4.) Andrew Luck
5.) Ryan Tannehill

Foles, you say? For a kid who was thrown into a shambles of an Eagles team, who never got 1st team reps, and still managed to post a better QB rating than Luck, as well as a better completion %? Yes. All day, please.

I'll take the 6'-6" 243lb pure pocket pass out of Austin, Texas, for upside, over that pretender who was originally born in Washington DC. Oliver Luck is from Ohio. These aren't Texans.

Bring Foles to Houston for some of next year's draft picks, because lord knows he's going to rot on Chip Kelly's bench like a Billy Volek. That's my trade for upside.
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Old 06-06-2013   #40
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Default Re: Top 20 Players in the AFC South, Texans with 9

I can't think of a single player I'd trade Watt for. Including any QB in the league. That man is going to be a HOF'er and a monster for years to come. This is a QB driven league and guys that can get after the QB are just as valuable.

I'll taken proven over potential all day long.
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