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Old 05-27-2013   #41
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Default Re: Secret Superstar: Kareem Jackson

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Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
Cute. My point is, Bob McNair will get rid of every single player on this roster if it means keeping JJ.
Even if that happens we can still go 6-10
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Old 05-27-2013   #42
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Default Re: Secret Superstar: Kareem Jackson

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Yeah, might not have wanted to pull that link out since the other guy you mentioned is now in the Hall.

Here is the problem with the "there are other WR's" argument - name one you are comparing him to who was ever considered the best in the NFL, not really good, not had a great career, the absolute best in the NFL for even part of his career.
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If Andre finishes out his contract (4 years remaining), he's a lock to be in the top 5 all time in receiving yards. Possibly 2nd depending on how long Reggie Wayne plays. That's HOF worthy to me, though 1st ballot might require more playoff success or perhaps a Super Bowl ring.
I hope im wrong but imo the logjam at wr is only going to get worse with all the stats 'good' modern wrs can put up. I think the value of having stats, especially yardage stats are going to diminish in the coming years.

aj has the fact that he has been in the 'best' discussion (lets not pretend like aj was widely considered as the definitive best when there was always guys like fitz, megatron, moss, wayne, TO etc) for a good few yrs in his favour but hes also going to have the 5 tds/yr average against him because there are a lot of good wrs who are averaging a lot more than that. it really sticks out in aj's hof resume compared to others
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Old 05-27-2013   #43
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Default Re: Secret Superstar: Kareem Jackson

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aj has the fact that he has been in the 'best' discussion (lets not pretend like aj was widely considered as the definitive best when there was always guys like fitz, megatron, moss, wayne, TO etc)
There is no pretense about it.

CJ got into best discussions the last 2 years.
Fitz was in the discussion and then AJ put down 2008 and 09 and Fitz dropped out.
Moss - sorry in that time period not considered a contender. Excellent yes, best no.
Wayne has never even been discussed as the best WR in the league.
TO - I'm sorry what decade are we discussing?

The discussion by commentators was prevalent in 2008. In 2009 as he continued to perform it became assumed until he was injured the next year that he was the best.
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Old 05-28-2013   #44
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Default Re: Secret Superstar: Kareem Jackson

My mind was set when KJ handled Megtron very well when they played against each other. The catches Megatron made had to be perfectly thrown by Stafford and KJ was still in his face.
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Old 05-28-2013   #45
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Default Re: Secret Superstar: Kareem Jackson

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
There is no pretense about it.

CJ got into best discussions the last 2 years.
Fitz was in the discussion and then AJ put down 2008 and 09 and Fitz dropped out.
Moss - sorry in that time period not considered a contender. Excellent yes, best no.
Wayne has never even been discussed as the best WR in the league.
TO - I'm sorry what decade are we discussing?

The discussion by commentators was prevalent in 2008. In 2009 as he continued to perform it became assumed until he was injured the next year that he was the best.
you're looking at it through texans tinted glasses. it was aj v fitz debate for 2008. aj generally got a little more yds but fitz used to get alot more tds so it just depended on what you were looking for.

when the cards went on their SB run in 09, fitz became the popular #1 wr in the nfl after what he did in the playoffs.

also, those other guys were just guys that were at some stage in the 'best' discussion from aj's rookie year to today, not that they were in the discussion in 08/09...

but i looked it up and they ALL still outperformed aj (td wise) in 08 & 09 (aj's best seasons). thought it was a bit ironic with the way you dismissed them out of hand...

it also shows the difficulty he will face when it comes time to see if he gets in. i think you're putting alot of stock in aj being in the ''best' discussion for a year or two. i hope he does but its doubtful in my eyes
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Old 05-28-2013   #46
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Default Re: Secret Superstar: Kareem Jackson

I'm thinking Kareem is the closest thing we've had to a CB since D-Rob when it comes to a player who will come up to meet and then smack the pizz out of a running-back ? Here's my question: are KJ jerseys available, out there to be had ?
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Old 05-28-2013   #47
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Default Re: Secret Superstar: Kareem Jackson

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Originally Posted by Maddict5 View Post
you're looking at it through texans tinted glasses. it was aj v fitz debate for 2008. aj generally got a little more yds but fitz used to get alot more tds so it just depended on what you were looking for.

when the cards went on their SB run in 09, fitz became the popular #1 wr in the nfl after what he did in the playoffs.

also, those other guys were just guys that were at some stage in the 'best' discussion from aj's rookie year to today, not that they were in the discussion in 08/09...

but i looked it up and they ALL still outperformed aj (td wise) in 08 & 09 (aj's best seasons). thought it was a bit ironic with the way you dismissed them out of hand...

it also shows the difficulty he will face when it comes time to see if he gets in. i think you're putting alot of stock in aj being in the ''best' discussion for a year or two. i hope he does but its doubtful in my eyes
The realist in me tends to agree. A.J. will have tough sledding getting into the Hall of Fame.

IMHO, one or more of these three things get guys into the Hall:
1) They re-wrote the "book" for how their position is played / perceived. Lawrence Taylor comes to mind for LBs as does Tony Gonzalez for TEs. Raymond Berry for WRs.
OR the guy personifies how his position should be played. Love him or hate him, when you think MLB in the 2000's you think Ray Lewis first. Back in the day, you thought Butkis. The "conversation" about their particular position started with those names.
2) They were perceived to have carried their respective team into the playoffs and championships ...repeatedly.
Lynn Swann comes to mind for me. His stats, when looked at on their own, are kind of lacking. But come playoff time, he left highlight memories that carried him into the Hall.
3) Re-write the record book. Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith, Walter Payton, Peyton Manning are obvious examples here (I know Manning isn't in, but do you actually think he won't be a first-ballot choice??) I could add that Rice, Smith, Payton also qualify under item 2. That's why they're shoe-ins.

My question is which of those things can best be used to "argue" A.J.'s case for getting into the Hall?

While A.J., without question, personifies class and is the embodiment of a non-diva, hard-working, team player; outside of Houston, he's not the first name that pops up when the discussion of who's the best, current-generation, WR comes up. Of course, he's in the discussion but he's not the "icon" for the position that Ray Lewis or Tony G. became for their position. And can we really argue that A.J. "redefined" the WR position like, say, L.T. did for LB? ehh, maybe, I dunno...

As we've been to the playoffs the last two years was A.J.the one who actually carried the team to repeated playoff success. Some would argue Foster did it. ...or our defense... For example, in our four post-season appearances he has just the one TD. (that really surprised me!)

A.J. has achieved some recordbook milestones and the "quickest to this" or second fasted to that... but his best career stat is yds/game where he's second to Megatron.

- career rcptns - - - 818 (22nd)
- career yds - - - - 11,254 (27th)
- career TDs - - - - 56 (82nd)
- career Yd/catch - 13.8 (not sure where he stands; list ends at 15.1 and that's 230-something
- career yds/game - 81.6 (2nd)

Good numbers but not what non-Texan fans would call outstanding.

As much as I hate to say this, I don't see a real strong case.
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Old 05-28-2013   #48
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Default Re: Secret Superstar: Kareem Jackson

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
The realist in me tends to agree. A.J. will have tough sledding getting into the Hall of Fame.

IMHO, one or more of these three things get guys into the Hall:
1) They re-wrote the "book" for how their position is played / perceived. Lawrence Taylor comes to mind for LBs as does Tony Gonzalez for TEs. Raymond Berry for WRs.
OR the guy personifies how his position should be played. Love him or hate him, when you think MLB in the 2000's you think Ray Lewis first. Back in the day, you thought Butkis. The "conversation" about their particular position started with those names.
2) They were perceived to have carried their respective team into the playoffs and championships ...repeatedly.
Lynn Swann comes to mind for me. His stats, when looked at on their own, are kind of lacking. But come playoff time, he left highlight memories that carried him into the Hall.
3) Re-write the record book. Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith, Walter Payton, Peyton Manning are obvious examples here (I know Manning isn't in, but do you actually think he won't be a first-ballot choice??) I could add that Rice, Smith, Payton also qualify under item 2. That's why they're shoe-ins.

My question is which of those things can best be used to "argue" A.J.'s case for getting into the Hall?

While A.J., without question, personifies class and is the embodiment of a non-diva, hard-working, team player; outside of Houston, he's not the first name that pops up when the discussion of who's the best, current-generation, WR comes up. Of course, he's in the discussion but he's not the "icon" for the position that Ray Lewis or Tony G. became for their position. And can we really argue that A.J. "redefined" the WR position like, say, L.T. did for LB? ehh, maybe, I dunno...

As we've been to the playoffs the last two years was A.J.the one who actually carried the team to repeated playoff success. Some would argue Foster did it. ...or our defense... For example, in our four post-season appearances he has just the one TD. (that really surprised me!)

A.J. has achieved some recordbook milestones and the "quickest to this" or second fasted to that... but his best career stat is yds/game where he's second to Megatron.

- career rcptns - - - 818 (22nd)
- career yds - - - - 11,254 (27th)
- career TDs - - - - 56 (82nd)
- career Yd/catch - 13.8 (not sure where he stands; list ends at 15.1 and that's 230-something
- career yds/game - 81.6 (2nd)

Good numbers but not what non-Texan fans would call outstanding.

As much as I hate to say this, I don't see a real strong case.
Well said. MSR.
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Old 05-28-2013   #49
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Default Re: Secret Superstar: Kareem Jackson

I've made comments about Kareem Jackson sucking in the past. I admit this, I was wrong about him (and have admitted to this in previous/similar threads). Did he give up some plays last season? Sure he did but what corner doesn't. That said, I feel a whole lot better about him now then I did his first season or two. A lot may be said about the coaching he had, or more accurately didn't have.

I think he can become a damn fine corner in this league.
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Old 05-28-2013   #50
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Default Re: Secret Superstar: Kareem Jackson

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post

- career rcptns - - - 818 (22nd)
- career yds - - - - 11,254 (27th)
- career TDs - - - - 56 (82nd)
- career Yd/catch - 13.8 (not sure where he stands; list ends at 15.1 and that's 230-something
- career yds/game - 81.6 (2nd)

Good numbers but not what non-Texan fans would call outstanding.

As much as I hate to say this, I don't see a real strong case.
If im not mistaken, Dre is NOT leaps and bounds away from the Top 10 in those categories, minus TDs I think that will change perspective. He also will not be in the same situation as Cris Carter, who has the stats, but a hardcore drug problem early in his career I believe has kept the door shut for him.

Last edited by PHILLYTEXANFAN; 05-28-2013 at 08:18 PM. Reason: Forgot a part
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Old 05-28-2013   #51
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Default Re: Secret Superstar: Kareem Jackson

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If im not mistaken, Dre is NOT leaps and bounds away from the Top 10 in those categories, minus TDs I think that will change perspective. He also will not be in the same situation as Cris Carter, who has the stats, but a hardcore drug problem early in his career I believe has kept the door shut for him.
Correct and there are three players who are still active in front of him and all are older - Steve Smith, Tony Gonzalez and Reggie Wayne. So really two WR's.
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Old 05-29-2013   #52
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Default Re: Secret Superstar: Kareem Jackson

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Originally Posted by PHILLYTEXANFAN View Post
If im not mistaken, Dre is NOT leaps and bounds away from the Top 10 in those categories, minus TDs I think that will change perspective. He also will not be in the same situation as Cris Carter, who has the stats, but a hardcore drug problem early in his career I believe has kept the door shut for him.
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Correct and there are three players who are still active in front of him and all are older - Steve Smith, Tony Gonzalez and Reggie Wayne. So really two WR's.
Again, I ain't saying A.J. won't make it into the Hall, I'm just saying as things stand right now, it'll be tough sledding for him to get there.
Now the fact that he's a class act and a blue collar-type WR as opposed to a diva is definitely in his favor and should win him some votes. But a couple of stud post-season appearances resulting with him holding the Lombardi suuure would help cement his case though.
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Old 05-29-2013   #53
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Default Re: Secret Superstar: Kareem Jackson

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
I've made comments about Kareem Jackson sucking in the past. I admit this, I was wrong about him (and have admitted to this in previous/similar threads). Did he give up some plays last season? Sure he did but what corner doesn't. That said, I feel a whole lot better about him now then I did his first season or two. A lot may be said about the coaching he had, or more accurately didn't have.

I think he HAS become a damn fine corner in this league.
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Old 05-29-2013   #54
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Default Re: Secret Superstar: Kareem Jackson

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I've made comments about Kareem Jackson sucking in the past.
You mean you evaluated a player before he was acclimated to the NFL?

Did you give him a grade?
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Old 05-29-2013   #55
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Default Re: Secret Superstar: Kareem Jackson

Kareem Jackson = improving

Kareem Jackson=Superstar=LOL
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Old 05-29-2013   #56
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Default Re: Secret Superstar: Kareem Jackson

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Kareem Jackson = improving

Kareem Jackson=Superstar=LOL
I don't know about superstar, because he doesn't make the flashy plays.

But last year Kareem was a damn good player. If he can consistently cover down field, there really aren't a lot of weaknesses to his game.
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Old 05-29-2013   #57
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Default Re: Secret Superstar: Kareem Jackson

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You mean you evaluated a player before he was acclimated to the NFL?

Did you give him a grade?
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Old 05-29-2013   #58
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Default Re: Secret Superstar: Kareem Jackson

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I don't know about superstar, because he doesn't make the flashy plays.
Namdi never really had flashy plays in Oakland, but for many years. People considered him "Elite". KJax just needs to keep on keepin on, fans will learn eventually.
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Old 05-29-2013   #59
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Default Re: Secret Superstar: Kareem Jackson

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Kareem Jackson = improving

Kareem Jackson=Superstar=LOL
That's why it's a secret!!!
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Old 05-30-2013   #60
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Default Re: Secret Superstar: Kareem Jackson

I will admit I've done my fair share of hating on Can't-Turn-His-Head Jackson and I will admit the guy has turned it around a ton. To go from incompetent to highly competent speaks volume of his guts and determination, but also is really damning of how bad the coaching was... unless he just happens to be the type of player that needed 2 years for it to "click" and everything to come together. Mad props for the coaching staff and FO to stick with him though.
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