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Old 08-23-2008   #81
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo View Post
Really ?

That's why they're gone ?



I'm done with the Richard Smith Talk...

I disagree with you guys. No biggie.
You're being sarcastic, right?

Out of all my arguments that's what you picked out to attack?
You're a better debater than that. I've seen it.

One last question:
Who decides whether or not a DB jams the WR at the line or plays 8 yds off the WR to keep the play in front of him?
Hint: It ain't the DB.
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Old 08-23-2008   #82
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

I know what Smith's MO is:

Small DTs in the backfield trying to pass cover and LBs on the ground, knocked senseless, at the line of scrimmage. We sure spent a lot on TJ, AO, and Weaver for humorous pass coverage.
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Old 08-24-2008   #83
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

The defense needs a real game not PRESEASON
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Old 08-24-2008   #84
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

Whose fault is the performance of the defense?

Think of it this way. If a person has only one bit available, it is like this:

0 - Richard Smith's fault
1 - The players' fault

However, if the person can invest two bits, we have this:

00 - Neither Smith's nor players' faults
01 - Not Smith's fault, players' fault
10 - Smith's fault, not players
11 - Both Smith and players' share fault

Bringing the front office and previous regimes into the discussion, and I very quickly am approaching a byte of information. If the person starts weighting the different amounts of responsibilites, it may run into more storage and thought than many people are willing to commit.

I'd at least start with two bits and think about improving coaching and talent.
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Old 08-24-2008   #85
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner View Post
Whose fault is the performance of the defense?

Think of it this way. If a person has only one bit available, it is like this:

0 - Richard Smith's fault
1 - The players' fault

However, if the person can invest two bits, we have this:

00 - Neither Smith's nor players' faults
01 - Not Smith's fault, players' fault
10 - Smith's fault, not players
11 - Both Smith and players' share fault

Bringing the front office and previous regimes into the discussion, and I very quickly am approaching a byte of information. If the person starts weighting the different amounts of responsibilites, it may run into more storage and thought than many people are willing to commit.

I'd at least start with two bits and think about improving coaching and talent.
I love it when you talk assembler language.
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Old 08-24-2008   #86
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner View Post
Whose fault is the performance of the defense?

Think of it this way. If a person has only one bit available, it is like this:

0 - Richard Smith's fault
1 - The players' fault

However, if the person can invest two bits, we have this:

00 - Neither Smith's nor players' faults
01 - Not Smith's fault, players' fault
10 - Smith's fault, not players
11 - Both Smith and players' share fault

Bringing the front office and previous regimes into the discussion, and I very quickly am approaching a byte of information. If the person starts weighting the different amounts of responsibilites, it may run into more storage and thought than many people are willing to commit.

I'd at least start with two bits and think about improving coaching and talent.
Perhaps we should do this in FORTRAN or COBOL lol, I wonder which would be better suited.

I agree with your assessment of the situation. My point however, was that what we saw on friday was just evidence that we don't have the talent to compete. I'm not sold on Smith. I don't necissarly like his scheme, I'd like to see more pressure but its pretty simple. When you bring 5 or 6 guys and don't get pressure, it might not be the coach. I know about QB reads and all, but at some point its "hey go hit the guy you're not allowed to hit during practice". What we saw friday, was that even IF Smith were a great coach, we wouldn't know it. Pick your poision. Leave your 35 out there, who can't cover a dead dog with a wet blanket, on an island and rush someone or don't rush and give the other team 5 minutes to throw the ball. I'll say this, if we do have a decent defense this year with Smith in there, he needs an extension because he has a pretty bad group.

Mike
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Old 08-25-2008   #87
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
Perhaps we should do this in FORTRAN or COBOL lol, I wonder which would be better suited.

I agree with your assessment of the situation. My point however, was that what we saw on friday was just evidence that we don't have the talent to compete. I'm not sold on Smith. I don't necissarly like his scheme, I'd like to see more pressure but its pretty simple. When you bring 5 or 6 guys and don't get pressure, it might not be the coach. I know about QB reads and all, but at some point its "hey go hit the guy you're not allowed to hit during practice". What we saw friday, was that even IF Smith were a great coach, we wouldn't know it. Pick your poision. Leave your 35 out there, who can't cover a dead dog with a wet blanket, on an island and rush someone or don't rush and give the other team 5 minutes to throw the ball. I'll say this, if we do have a decent defense this year with Smith in there, he needs an extension because he has a pretty bad group.

Mike
I just finished review the 1st quarter (just the defense).
Actually, our pressure (whether with 4 or 5 guys) was decent.
Not great, but decent.
We were close a few times.
The long incomplete pass to T.O. was hurried by a delayed LB blitz.

Another thing is we already mix a bunch different guys in there from the get go.
The key here is that (like another poster had mentiond - I think it was KT) in the regular season, it should wear our the O-line in the second half.
At least that is what we hope.

I really think that we will see improvement over last year on the D, knock on wood.
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Old 08-25-2008   #88
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
One last question:
Who decides whether or not a DB jams the WR at the line or plays 8 yds off the WR to keep the play in front of him?
Hint: It ain't the DB.
Are you implying that if our DB's played differently they'd be better ?

If so, I disagree.
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Old 08-25-2008   #89
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

Cohesion
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Old 08-25-2008   #90
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

With the exception of Mario, I saw our D-line get man-handled. With the exception of maybe Fred Bennett, I saw our secondary reach new heights in suckitude.... Bad, BAD combination.
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Old 08-25-2008   #91
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post

I really think that we will see improvement over last year on the D, knock on wood.
I'm usually optomistic...... but why??

We've added Jaques Reeves to the secondary, and Rosevelt Colvin to the pass rush....

Maybe these Wily vets are in "preseason" mode, and aren't showing us a whole lot in the preseason that's plausible. But I would imagine our coaches would express a little less concern...

Jaques is supposed to be physical, and very good in run support..... I haven't seen that, and our outside contain is the worse I've seen since Kubiak has taken over.

& I don't even know where to start with Colvin.

I'll admit Okoye looked better against Dallas than he did against New Orleans, but not by much. And other than falling on the Mario Williams forced fumble(), Frank Okam hasn't done much.

DeMarcus Faggins is our best Corner right now.

Think about that.
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Old 08-25-2008   #92
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

Quote:
we mix a bunch different guys in there from the get go.
The key here is that in the regular season, it should wear our their O-line in the second half.
And this is in all 3 games we have played thus far.
Add to that the fact our opponents stay with their first string O more than we did our D (overall, but especially on the line.)
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Old 08-25-2008   #93
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
With the exception of maybe Fred Bennett, I saw our secondary reach new heights in suckitude.... Bad, BAD combination.
You sees Bennett.
TK sees Faggins.

I sees Flecther.

Even though they all make some mistakes here and there.

But that's right, Molden is still a rookie, and Reeves can't make up for his mistakes by enough good plays. But I wouldn't call him terrible (YET).

I agree with Kubiak that the ball is finding Reeves quite a bit so far.
That's why people see more mistakes.
But if we look at it as a percentage, it's not absolute horrible (even though it's not too far from there, LOL!)

On that long Incompletion pass to T.O. for example, it is possible that Reeves was supposed to cover the short zone, and was expecting help from Demps.

Romo did look there first, he even make a pump fake.
That likely means that Reeves had T.O. originally.

It's quite possible that Demps should be quicker to slide over to help.

At any rate, we ran a delayed LB blitz and Romo had to get rid of the ball.
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Old 08-25-2008   #94
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

Look up the ages of our starting defense. I am guessing that the average is way below the league average for good starting defenses. And that a lot of these guys wouldn't be starters on other teams.

That being said, I think the people who are harsh on Richard Smith are looking at his body of work with the Texans. That a lot of times the team doesn't look well coached--that the pass rush looks mechanical and the secondary looks like a Chinese fire drill. And that you wondering what his defense is supposed to look like and whether he is acquiring the right people for that sort of defense or developing them properly.
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Old 08-25-2008   #95
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
That a lot of times the team doesn't look well coached--that the pass rush looks mechanical and the secondary looks like a Chinese fire drill.
I would say that the team wasn't well coached if we were getting a lot of defensive penalties and generally lacked composure.

I don't see that.

What I see is a bunch of athletes who aren't as talented as the guys they line up against. I think that has a lot to do with the pass rush looking mechanical and the DB's looking confused.

It's not really hard to look at the defense and tell who's not doing their job...It's not hard to tell who's blowing assignments...It's not hard to tell who just isn't physically up to par...

So all this talk of him not fielding a real defensive scheme is confusing to me...

It's plain as day who's getting beat on defense and most of the time we can tell why they're getting beat...

Defense is supposed to "look" a little chaotic....It's supposed to be "organized chaos"...It's just that our guys aren't making plays so it doesn't have that "organized" feel...


Quote:
And that you wondering what his defense is supposed to look like and whether he is acquiring the right people for that sort of defense or developing them properly.
How much influence does Richard Smith have on who is brought in for his defense ?

I mean...He's not a scout or a talent evaluator..

I figure he has some say, but I'd think a brunt of that load would be on the Head coach and GM ?

Honest question.

Last edited by Polo; 08-25-2008 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 08-25-2008   #96
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo View Post
How much influence does Richard Smith have on who is brought in for his defense ?

I mean...He's not a scout or a talent evaluator..

I figure he has some say, but I'd think a brunt of that load would be on the Head coach and GM ?

Honest question.
This is what I know based on speaking to one of the current coaches and hopefully I didn't misinterpret any of it.

Draft: The draft guys evaluate the players. Then the offensive coaches and the defensive coaches ranks those players for different positions on their team.

They are one of the few teams in the league that then has both the offense and the defenses' coaches get together and discuss their draft board together. I was told that this way takes more time but they like the results of this for the team.

For free agency, I don't know what they do. If they aren't a completely dysfunctional team, the GM is acquiring players that suit particular needs of the scheme with the BPA for the price. Rick Smith isn't a I Know The NFL Better Than You kinda guy.
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Old 08-25-2008   #97
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

I think what our defense seems to be lacking is found in a sack between MOST men's legs.
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Old 08-25-2008   #98
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo View Post
I would say that the team wasn't well coached if we were getting a lot of defensive penalties and generally lacked composure.

I don't see that.

What I see is a bunch of athletes who aren't as talented as the guys they line up against. I think that has a lot to do with the pass rush looking mechanical and the DB's looking confused.

It's not really hard to look at the defense and tell who's not doing their job...It's not hard to tell who's blowing assignments...It's not hard to tell who just isn't physically up to par...

So all this talk of him not fielding a real defensive scheme is confusing to me...

It's plain as day who's getting beat on defense and most of the time we can tell why they're getting beat...

Defense is supposed to "look" a little chaotic....It's supposed to be "organized chaos"...It's just that our guys aren't making plays so it doesn't have that "organized" feel...

OK. What is the Texans defense SUPPOSED to look like? You can't look to Smith's history to tell because he has never been a solo coordinator before coming here. When he first came to the team, the description of the defense was an aggresive 4-3. Football Outsiders analyzed the defensive snaps between 2006 and 2007 and said this:

"In 2006, the Texans were one of the top 10 teams sending six or more pass rushers; last year, they fell to 22nd."

Kubiak says he wants to have a good pass rush using four up front, but is that Smith's philosophy? Or is that just survival given how bad the payoff has been with their blitzes.

With the exception of Andre Johnson, the Texans do not have the most talented guys on the offensive side of the ball. The coaching on that side of the ball is so good and they know what sorts of players they want, that they have put together a very promising offense. You can see that evolution, how good the coaching is.

Statistically, that offense went from one of the worst in the league to one of the better ones, even with significant injuries to key players. I want to see that sort of progress for the defense.

On the defensive side of the ball, the Texans defense was ranked by football outsiders this way:

2005: 32nd
2006: 31st
2007: 30th

They face two very physical offensive teams in the Jags and the Titans twice a year, and a smart team in the Manning Colts that can get rid of the ball quickly and not allow much of a pass rush.

So facing those teams SIX times a year, we are putting together a smallish light quick defense up front with marginal safeties and inexperience everywhere in the defensive backfield? How is Smith's defense going to out-physical, out-smart these offenses?
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Old 08-25-2008   #99
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
OK. What is the Texans defense SUPPOSED to look like? You can't look to Smith's history to tell because he has never been a solo coordinator before coming here. When he first came to the team, the description of the defense was an aggresive 4-3. Football Outsiders analyzed the defensive snaps between 2006 and 2007 and said this:

"In 2006, the Texans were one of the top 10 teams sending six or more pass rushers; last year, they fell to 22nd."

Kubiak says he wants to have a good pass rush using four up front, but is that Smith's philosophy? Or is that just survival given how bad the payoff has been with their blitzes.

With the exception of Andre Johnson, the Texans do not have the most talented guys on the offensive side of the ball. The coaching on that side of the ball is so good and they know what sorts of players they want, that they have put together a very promising offense. You can see that evolution, how good the coaching is.

Statistically, that offense went from one of the worst in the league to one of the better ones, even with significant injuries to key players. I want to see that sort of progress for the defense.

On the defensive side of the ball, the Texans defense was ranked by football outsiders this way:

2005: 32nd
2006: 31st
2007: 30th


They face two very physical offensive teams in the Jags and the Titans twice a year, and a smart team in the Manning Colts that can get rid of the ball quickly and not allow much of a pass rush.

So facing those teams SIX times a year, we are putting together a smallish light quick defense up front with marginal safeties and inexperience everywhere in the defensive backfield? How is Smith's defense going to out-physical, out-smart these offenses?
Well, at least we're improving.

Nice post TC.
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Old 08-25-2008   #100
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Default Re: What is the Defense Missing?

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OK. What is the Texans defense SUPPOSED to look like?
I don't understand this question. It's supposed to stop people.


Quote:
You can't look to Smith's history to tell because he has never been a solo coordinator before coming here.
Just because he doesn't have an extensive history doesn't mean he's not capable.



Quote:
Football Outsiders analyzed the defensive snaps between 2006 and 2007 and said this:

"In 2006, the Texans were one of the top 10 teams sending six or more pass rushers; last year, they fell to 22nd."
From 2006 to 2007 our defense and sack count improved.....albeit very marginally...

Quote:
Kubiak says he wants to have a good pass rush using four up front, but is that Smith's philosophy? Or is that just survival given how bad the payoff has been with their blitzes.
Kubiak hasn't said "we need to be more creative with what we're doing on defense"...

Generally his angst hasn't been aimed at the schmes or defensive play calling; he moreso talks about specific players

Instead of saying things like "We as coaches have to put them in better situations to be successful" or, "I think we gotta find different ways to get after the passer" he says "We're going to keep searchin for which guys are going to get the job done" and "we don't want to blitz a whole lot".

Kubiak hasn't been shy about fessing up to poor coaching and "putting players in bad situations" so I'm not sure why he'd start beating around the bush now...


Quote:
With the exception of Andre Johnson, the Texans do not have the most talented guys on the offensive side of the ball.
I disagree...I think our recieving corps is very talented...
I think our QB play is very good and probably going to get better...
I think our backs have some potential...
I think Vontay is really good...
I think we have some good talent up front on the O-line...
I think we have some good depth over there and really the only area of real concern is the RB's/running game...



Quote:
The coaching on that side of the ball is so good and they know what sorts of players they want, that they have put together a very promising offense. You can see that evolution, how good the coaching is.

Statistically, that offense went from one of the worst in the league to one of the better ones, even with significant injuries to key players. I want to see that sort of progress for the defense.
You won't see that sort of progress with the defense...

Look who you are comparing them to....

The pedigree of the coaches and the continuity on that side of the ball far outweigh that of the defense...

I'm not shocked that a Gary Kubiak coached football team progressed much more rapidly on the offensive side of the ball than the defensive...

I think that some of Free agent pick-ups and draft picks on the offensive side of the ball have been amazing since Smithiak have taken over...

Andre Davis, Kevin Walter, Chris Meyers, Owen Daniels, Rahshard Butler, Jacoby, David Anderson, Vontay, Briesel, Winston, Slaton, Chris Taylor, Matt Schaub, Sage Rosenfels...

These are talented football players...

Defense hasn't hit on nearly the amount of draft picks and Free Agents...

I can't blame that on Richard Smith.


Quote:
On the defensive side of the ball, the Texans defense was ranked by football outsiders this way:

2005: 32nd
2006: 31st
2007: 30th
So we're getting better....despite our division getting tougher over that time span...


Quote:
They face two very physical offensive teams in the Jags and the Titans twice a year, and a smart team in the Manning Colts that can get rid of the ball quickly and not allow much of a pass rush.
The Jags and Colts offenses can move the chains on the best of them...


Quote:
So facing those teams SIX times a year, we are putting together a smallish light quick defense up front with marginal safeties and inexperience everywhere in the defensive backfield? How is Smith's defense going to out-physical, out-smart these offenses?
How is this Smith's fault that our best DT's are smallish...

The Colts won a superbowl with a smallish front four.....Colts were called soft against the run until Bob Sanders came back...

Amazing what talented players can do for a defense...In that case, it was just one...

I'm having a hard time trying to find out what he can do so drastically different in order for our defense to take the gigantic strides forward that you all seek...

Last edited by Polo; 08-25-2008 at 10:48 AM.
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