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Old 07-30-2008   #41
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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Originally Posted by Number19 View Post
The following is probably too far out in left field, certainly for this year. But if TJ continues to improve over last year's performance and rounds into a player worth his draft status, and if Okam proves to be the surprise pick of this year's draft - earning a starting assignment - then one possibility would be to move Okoye outside opposite Mario.

A good example of of this type of thinking is San Francisco, who has moved Sopoaga - a classic nose tackle - outside. They think he has the quickness and feet to play out on the edge.

I can see a defensive line, at some point, consisting of Mario and Okoye on the outside and with TJ and Okam in the middle. With Mario and Okoye pressuring from the outside, Mario getting +15 sacks and Okoye getting +10 sacks, and Okam collapsing the middle, getting 4, 5, 6 sacks, things might open up for TJ so he too could get half a dozen sacks.

This could prove to be a dominant pass rush and solid against the run.
wow. Don't fix whats not broken.... Okoye is already a stud at DT, a position he played since high school. It likes the Winston debate, why move him to LT when we already used two years to teach him how to play RT. Plus I don't think Okoye could play DE, like the poster said above me, he might be quick for a DT, but could probably get neutralized by a starting NFL LT.
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Old 07-31-2008   #42
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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wow. Don't fix whats not broken.... Okoye is already a stud at DT, a position he played since high school. It likes the Winston debate, why move him to LT when we already used two years to teach him how to play RT. Plus I don't think Okoye could play DE, like the poster said above me, he might be quick for a DT, but could probably get neutralized by a starting NFL LT.
Perhaps you haven't been around long enough to see the move Dunta to FS threads.

Porky Excellent post. The only thing I keep coming back to is who would've been an overwhelmingly better pick in the 6th and 7th rounds respectively? It's been said before So i am piggy backing but from this draft forward i expect out 6th and seventh round picks aren't going to be dredging for starters or even immediate backups. I think between FA and the current depth this team is starting to accrue look for more projects and just guys who are football players.

Far as Alex Brink goes I have confidence in Kubiak's coaching abilities. If he's turned Jake Plummer and Brian Griese into acceptable starters I am sure he can have Alex Brink prepared enough to be a good backup by the time Sage Leaves or is traded.
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Old 07-31-2008   #43
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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I realize that we have had a huge turnover in the roster since Smith and Kubiak got here.

I thought it was just a matter of upgrading talent.

Could you expound on who the "bad element" players were that we rid ourselves of, as I really can't think of any.

If you consider lack of talent to be the same as "bad element" then disregard.

Thanks.

David Carr, Robaire Smith, Gary Walker, Jabar Gaffney, P-Buc, & Todd Wade just to a few. They were either lockerroom cancers (Carr, P-Buc, Smith) or lacked talent (Gaffney, Walker).
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Old 07-31-2008   #44
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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I realize that we have had a huge turnover in the roster since Smith and Kubiak got here.
Only 12 guys left from the '06 team. (correction edit: 2002-05 era)

-----

As far as an earlier comment on Duane Brown being light and nimble, I've only been to three practices but those aren't two of the words that come to mind when I was watching him. Yes, he's shown some flashes of the advertised athleticism and you can see he has the feets and potential, but overall I see a guy that's trying to get into NFL shape, and trying to learn how to be an NFL player (as expected). When I first saw Duane last week, surprisingly bulky were the words that flashed through my head. He'll get there. Hopefully.

Last edited by aj.; 07-31-2008 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 07-31-2008   #45
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

Speaking of Okoye, has he grown any since last year? I mean, he's actually young enough to still be growing (maybe), so I'm just wondering.
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Old 07-31-2008   #46
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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Originally Posted by aj. View Post
Only 12 guys left from the '06 team.

-----

As far as an earlier comment on Duane Brown being light and nimble, I've only been to three practices but those aren't two of the words that come to mind when I was watching him. Yes, he's shown some flashes of the advertised athleticism and you can see he has the feets and potential, but overall I see a guy that's trying to get into NFL shape, and trying to learn how to be an NFL player (as expected). When I first saw Duane last week, surprisingly bulky were the words that flashed through my head. He'll get there. Hopefully.
Thanks for the insite. I have no independent knowledge as I have not seen any of them at this point. My observations were simply made by culling thru some stuff I had read or seen observers say. I do know it was said he needs to lose 10-15 lbs, so your reports make sense. But, I have also seen him described as quick, nimble and agile with good feet this camp, hence my description. I stand corrected if that is not accurate.
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Old 07-31-2008   #47
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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Originally Posted by Insideop View Post
This (too many Safeties) is a good problem to have. Besides, the Brandons both have another year of eligibility on the PS and Barber should have 2 years. So, whoever they pick between the 3, the other 2 should be put on the PS, provided they make it through waivers. I've been hearing Earl has been having a good camp, so he should make the team with no problem. Not sure where Ferguson or Simmons stand as far as making the team, but there sure are going to be some tough cuts at the end of camp. JMHO!
I wish we still have Jason Simmons, but I believe the Texans let him go. His injury must have been serious.

Ferguson, IMO, is just a vet they want to bring in just in case... His play last year in Denver showed that he had lost a step. (I was reviewing some games to check out Chris Myers.) If people were complaining about Earl and CC Brown, they should forget about Ferguson.
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Old 07-31-2008   #48
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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Originally Posted by painekiller View Post
Or you can have a solid rotation like most very good teams. If the top 3 tackles are all starter quality, then allowing them to stay fresh makes the team better late in games, and then nagging injuries are usually avoided.

I do not see Okoye on the outside in the NFL. He is quick for a DT, but not a 4-3 DE, now place him in a 3-4 and he might be like young Gary Walker...

Think about if we where to go into a 3-4, TJ and Okoye at DE, Okam at NT, and Mario and Colvin at OLB. That leaves Ryans in the middle with Greenwood or Diles. Maybe we are not to far off from ..... no that not going to happen.
That's an entertaining idea!
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Old 07-31-2008   #49
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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Originally Posted by Porky View Post
Thanks for the insite. I have no independent knowledge as I have not seen any of them at this point. My observations were simply made by culling thru some stuff I had read or seen observers say. I do know it was said he needs to lose 10-15 lbs, so your reports make sense. But, I have also seen him described as quick, nimble and agile with good feet this camp, hence my description. I stand corrected if that is not accurate.
Brown reported to TC overweighed (327 lbs, I think). He was somewhere around 310 at VTech.

I think AJ got the number 12 from Justice, and that normally won't do.

David Anderson
CC Brown
Chris Brown
Mark Bruener
Tim Bullman *
Earl Cochran *
Jameel Cook
O.D.
Earl
Faggins
Greenwood
AJ
TJ
Kalu
Leach
Maddox
Pittman
Pitts
Dunta
Rosenfels
Demeco
Salaam
Taylor *
Walter
Weary
Weaver
White *
Harry Williams *
Mario
Winston

I could be wrong, but there certainly remains more than 12.
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Old 07-31-2008   #50
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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IIRC, August 26 down to 75, then 4 days later down to 53. I still don't understand the logic behind that.
The first cut is after the Dallas preseason game and then the 2nd cut is after the Tampa game. I'm not saying there is logic in that. I'd think they'd either even out the cuts or just cut everyone after the last preseason game. I'd think most of the coaches pretty much know the guys that are going to be cut. At least it gives them more players in that last game to use so they can fully rest the starters.

The late cuts makes it tough planning fantasy drafts. How do I know if I should draft David Carr if he might not even make the Giants roster? Which backup kicker do I take?
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Old 07-31-2008   #51
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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Antwaun Molden - From multiple sources, appears to be having an exceptional camp. If he keeps it up, I could also see him pushing Reeves early in the season, and he will get plenty of PT as a rookie. Could be a 3rd rd steal.
I hope you're right. With our secondary problems the last couple of years and Dunta being out, he could really help this football team if he can play at a high level.

Opportunity knocking, Antaun!
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Old 07-31-2008   #52
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I could be wrong, but there certainly remains more than 12.
I suspect aj meant from the 2005 team, i.e. since Kubiak took over.

That list is:
CC Brown
Kris Brown
Mark Bruener
Glenn Earl
Demarcus Faggins
Morlon Greenwood
Andre Johnson
Travis Johnson
Bryan Pittman
Chester Pitts
Dunta Robinson
Fred Weary
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Old 07-31-2008   #53
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
David Carr, Robaire Smith, Gary Walker, Jabar Gaffney, P-Buc, & Todd Wade just to a few. They were either lockerroom cancers (Carr, P-Buc, Smith) or lacked talent (Gaffney, Walker).
Locker room cancer? I do not count poor performance on the field as cancer's in the locker room.

P-buc ... ok I will say his attitude sucked so yeah, but I have never heard anything R Smith being a sorle disruptive locker room guy so please tell me what he did to get that distinction.

Gaffney lacked talent? Seems the Patriots would disagree with you 100% They like him and he is in their rotation at WR, so theregoes that myth.

Walker was not a bad player but he was no stud, if played better when there was talent around him there was no talent on the DL when he was here plus the fact that he was injured his 2nd year and his 4th year with us and then he was out of the leage. I thought he retired cause of injuries but I could be wrong.
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Old 07-31-2008   #54
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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Locker room cancer? I do not count poor performance on the field as cancer's in the locker room.

P-buc ... ok I will say his attitude sucked so yeah, but I have never heard anything R Smith being a sorle disruptive locker room guy so please tell me what he did to get that distinction.

Gaffney lacked talent? Seems the Patriots would disagree with you 100% They like him and he is in their rotation at WR, so theregoes that myth.

Walker was not a bad player but he was no stud, if played better when there was talent around him there was no talent on the DL when he was here plus the fact that he was injured his 2nd year and his 4th year with us and then he was out of the leage. I thought he retired cause of injuries but I could be wrong.
Walker was a Pro-Bowl player his first year with the Texans, and was waived after the '05 season because of injuries.
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Old 07-31-2008   #55
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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I suspect aj meant from the 2005 team, i.e. since Kubiak took over.

That list is:
CC Brown
Kris Brown
Mark Bruener
Glenn Earl
Demarcus Faggins
Morlon Greenwood
Andre Johnson
Travis Johnson
Bryan Pittman
Chester Pitts
Dunta Robinson
Fred Weary
That is true.
But Rick Smith inherited more than those players.

Nowadays, players move around quite a bit.
Especially when you have a new coach.

Sometimes they break up a team to rebuild, etc.

You look at Crennel in Cleveland, for example.
He came in a year befor Kubiak got the job here.
And the Browns only have 14 guys reamined from the 05 team (and that with Crennel having one more year than Kubiak and with Savage as the GM who hired Romeo.)

And that after the Browns had quite a big turnover just a couple years before.
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Old 07-31-2008   #56
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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Originally Posted by Porky View Post
Thanks for the insite. I have no independent knowledge as I have not seen any of them at this point. My observations were simply made by culling thru some stuff I had read or seen observers say. I do know it was said he needs to lose 10-15 lbs, so your reports make sense. But, I have also seen him described as quick, nimble and agile with good feet this camp, hence my description. I stand corrected if that is not accurate.
Not that it is inaccurate it just has been embellished by some of the posters. He has the feet to be a tackle, but as aj said, no one is looking at him and calling him twinkle toes.
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Old 07-31-2008   #57
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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Originally Posted by Specnatz View Post
Locker room cancer? I do not count poor performance on the field as cancer's in the locker room.

P-buc ... ok I will say his attitude sucked so yeah, but I have never heard anything R Smith being a sorle disruptive locker room guy so please tell me what he did to get that distinction.

I do not have my source anymore and I do not feel like digging it up. But I remember there being talk about Smith being an issue in the locker room, he was not a hard worker and he was not dedicated to being in Kubiak type shape. Gary Walker at the stage in his career he was released had also become that way.

They would just do the minimum to get by, and if you watch the players now, that does not fly with Kubiak. He does not stand for dogging it. Even his big guys have to be able to handle the conditioning, NFL level conditioning.
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Old 07-31-2008   #58
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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Originally Posted by aj. View Post
but overall I see a guy that's trying to get into NFL shape, and trying to learn how to be an NFL player (as expected). When I first saw Duane last week, surprisingly bulky were the words that flashed through my head. He'll get there. Hopefully.
In other words a "chunky project", which is my impression of the guy. I've heard a few optimists go so far as to claim he will be a Day One starter, but again that sounds wildly optimistic to the point of not being very realistic.
And I think its realy kinda worrisome that Brown does come in overweight and out of shape. Doesn't sound like the kind of high-motor guy you'd want and expect to come in to set the league on fire and all of that.
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Old 07-31-2008   #59
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post

I think AJ got the number 12 from Justice, and that normally won't do.
.

Actually I got the number 12 from the Texans training camp media release dated 7-22-06.

I meant to say the 2005 team - Capers' last team - the one before Kubiak took over.

More clearly stated, there are only 12 players left from the 2002-05 Dark Era. It was early this morning when I posted - give me a break - and I'll let the Justice comment slide ... this time.


2002 G/T Chester Pitts (2-b) PK Kris Brown (RFA-PIT) G Fred Weary (3-a) CB DeMarcus Faggins (6-a)

2003 WR Andre Johnson (1) LS Bryan Pittman (FA)

2004 CB Dunta Robinson (1-a) TE Mark Bruener (UFA-PIT)
7-9 SS Glenn Earl (4)

2005 DT Travis Johnson (1) LB Morlon Greenwood (UFA-MIA)
SS C.C. Brown (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porky View Post
Thanks for the insite. I have no independent knowledge as I have not seen any of them at this point. My observations were simply made by culling thru some stuff I had read or seen observers say. I do know it was said he needs to lose 10-15 lbs, so your reports make sense. But, I have also seen him described as quick, nimble and agile with good feet this camp, hence my description. I stand corrected if that is not accurate.
People see different things at different times. Snapshots in time. I would expect varying opinions and observations, not just on Brown but on most everything, so because one person said it and holds that opinion doesn't make it right, wrong or otherwise - it just adds to the data point bucket.

Last edited by aj.; 07-31-2008 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 07-31-2008   #60
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post
Perhaps you haven't been around long enough to see the move Dunta to FS threads.
How is that the same? Dunta can become a great FS, Okoye can become an average DE. He can make a smooth transition over to FS, Okoye on the otherhand....

Beside it isn't like Dunta is a stud a CB, wasn't the complaint that he wasn't a cover corner? That he might be better suited for FS, where he can roam more freely?
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