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Old 07-30-2008   #21
Polo
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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Ephraim played two years in Denver with Gibbs as his coach. This is a refresher course for him.
Forgot about that...good point...

Still don't see him starting though...

He's not a guy I'd consider good enough to take limited reps in these circumstances and then come in and be relied upon to be your starter...
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Old 07-30-2008   #22
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

even though that's what he's done for the last two seasons. either way, I agree that the plan is for Brown to be ready to go by September.
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Old 07-30-2008   #23
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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even though that's what he's done for the last two seasons.

His first season he was forced into starting becasue of an injury...He wasn't "expected" or being "relied on" to start...

Last season he didn't have limited reps in camp...

It's not what he's done the past two seasons...
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Old 07-30-2008   #24
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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I agree on all points. I think we see five of this year's draft picks make an impact on this team. I think the front office has done an excellent job of picking guys who (i) fit the system, (ii) fit the personality of the team and (iii) are good character.

I think another big reason of the success of these players is the willingness of the veterans on the roster to help rookies get caught up and adjust. One of the first thing we saw this new front office do is rid the team of some bad elements and replace them with solid veterans who would serve as an example to the younger players. We don't hear it mentioned much, but you have to believe that a lot of Bennet's success should be credited to Dunta...and we are seeing Dunta do the same thing with Molden. Look at Salaam and Brown. The same could be said for Sage helping Schaub get up to speed last year.

There is just a good feel about the players on this team. Guys doing what they can for the TEAM, notwithstanding the fact that they may be training the guy who will push them back on the depth chart. This sort of attitude becomes the fabric of a team and sets a tone for how this year's rookies will help along rookies to come.

I realize that we have had a huge turnover in the roster since Smith and Kubiak got here.

I thought it was just a matter of upgrading talent.

Could you expound on who the "bad element" players were that we rid ourselves of, as I really can't think of any.

If you consider lack of talent to be the same as "bad element" then disregard.

Thanks.

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Old 07-30-2008   #25
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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FYI At todays practice it appeared that Barber and Earl where working with the 2nd team. The Brandons where where further down the food chain.
This (too many Safeties) is a good problem to have. Besides, the Brandons both have another year of eligibility on the PS and Barber should have 2 years. So, whoever they pick between the 3, the other 2 should be put on the PS, provided they make it through waivers. I've been hearing Earl has been having a good camp, so he should make the team with no problem. Not sure where Ferguson or Simmons stand as far as making the team, but there sure are going to be some tough cuts at the end of camp. JMHO!
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Old 07-30-2008   #26
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

when are the first cuts anyway?
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Old 07-30-2008   #27
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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Also, remember that Salaam spent a few years in Denver. He's seen ALL of this before. He doesn't need the work
Ehhh...I disagree with him not needing the work...

Salaam isn't a world beater to begin with...He's not good enough to spend the whole camp watching taking limited reps and then coming in and executing...

He spent a few years in Denver, but how many reps did he get then ?

Wasn't he a back-up ?

Back-ups tend to get limited reps wherever they are...

I just don't think that I'd be willing to throw Salaam in there over Brown. If the Texans thought Brown wouldn't be ready just yet I'd think that they'd split the reps a little more evenly...Bring Brown along slowly while getting Salaam reps to be ready...

They aren't doing that and really haven't shown any indication of reverting back to Salaam since the Brown was drafted...

Last edited by Polo; 07-30-2008 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 07-30-2008   #28
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

I just hope the one who's playing best is the one who always starts. The best way for that to happen is for Brown to become the better of the two by opening day.
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Old 07-30-2008   #29
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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when are the first cuts anyway?
IIRC, August 26 down to 75, then 4 days later down to 53. I still don't understand the logic behind that.

Just to play devil's advocaat on the Barber pick, they had Demps, CC, and Curome Cox as the only healthy guys with any significant experience at the position until Ferguson was signed. Earl was coming off a serious injury, Simmons as well and thus not tendered. Hutchins was gone and They didn't really know what they had in Mitchell and Harrison. I think it would be a bit different if either of the Brandons had played significant time and looked good. In any case, Demps and Ferguson (if he makes the roster) are short-term answers, and CC will be a UFA next year. If Barber can take over, they have the luxury of letting him walk or re-signing him for less money.
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Old 07-30-2008   #30
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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The biggest differnce we'll see is the way the linemen move and how quickly they get to the second level...

ZBS is a term that a lot of folks are confused by...

Last year we zone blocked a lot, but it wasn't the same kind of zoneblocking that Gibbs is going to bring....

We ran a lot of inside/power zone...with Gibbs on board I expect to see a lot more off tackle/outside zone...

While we still are going to technically be running zone blocking, the steps and angles that linemen take are going to drastically change...The timing is going to change...The way we block will change...The only thing that will stay the same is the "zone concept" which is basically letting defenders dictate who blocks them and how they are blocked...
I don't think it's necessarily because of Gibbs that we will run more outside zone plays.

We'll do it because we have RBs that can get to the corner faster than we did last year. And also because we have more O-linemen who can get o the next level.

Look at the Broncos in 05 when they have the big guys Anderson and Dayne (plus Tatum Bell), they only ran to the edge 15% of the time.

We ran 19% last year, the Broncos 29% with the addition of Selvin Young.
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Old 07-30-2008   #31
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We'll do it because we have RBs that can get to the corner faster than we did last year. And also because we have more O-linemen who can get o the next level.

Look at the Broncos in 05 when they have the big guys Anderson and Dayne (plus Tatum Bell), they only ran to the edge 15% of the time.
Well...The scheme isn't really designed for bruiser backs...

It's designed for quickness...


The Gibbs scheme is designed for guys like Portis, Warrick Dunn, TD, and all the other quicker more explosive backs...

The Bronco's probably adjusted their runs due to the type of backs they had...the scheme is still designed to be more off tackle, stretch oriented...

Besides that...You can't look at one year to the next for one team...Of course the kind of backs you have from year to year will determine how and what kind of runs you do...compare Denver to another team...not itself...
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Old 07-30-2008   #32
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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Ehhh...I disagree with him not needing the work...

Salaam isn't a world beater to begin with...He's not good enough to spend the whole camp watching taking limited reps and then coming in and executing...

He spent a few years in Denver, but how many reps did he get then ?

Wasn't he a back-up ?
No. He played 2 seasons in Denver. The first season, he started all 16 games. His second season, he started 14. He was an LT in Denver except for 1 game.

Prior to that, he was a starter at RT for several years with the Falcons including his rookie year when he started 19 games... that was the year they went to the Super Bowl.

The only year he hasn't started at least 10 games was his 2nd year with the Jags where he started 2, played in 5, and was deactivated for most of the rest of the year.
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Old 07-30-2008   #33
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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No. He played 2 seasons in Denver. The first season, he started all 16 games. His second season, he started 14. He was an LT in Denver except for 1 game.

Prior to that, he was a starter at RT for several years with the Falcons including his rookie year when he started 19 games... that was the year they went to the Super Bowl.

The only year he hasn't started at least 10 games was his 2nd year with the Jags where he started 2, played in 5, and was deactivated for most of the rest of the year.
Also, Salaam been looking pretty good this camp.
Even Kubiak said so, which is good.
I'd like for Brown to start as soon as possible, but if he's not ready by the season opener, I'm sure Salaam will be ready to go.
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Old 07-30-2008   #34
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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No. He played 2 seasons in Denver. The first season, he started all 16 games. His second season, he started 14. He was an LT in Denver except for 1 game.

Prior to that, he was a starter at RT for several years with the Falcons including his rookie year when he started 19 games... that was the year they went to the Super Bowl.

The only year he hasn't started at least 10 games was his 2nd year with the Jags where he started 2, played in 5, and was deactivated for most of the rest of the year.
Wow..Salaam has more credentials than I thought he had...

I was wrong about that part...

Still don't think he'll start game one though for various other reasons...
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Old 07-30-2008   #35
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

This team had so many questionable picks those first few years. Now, suddenly, every pick at least makes the team, and most of them start. Amazing.
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Old 07-30-2008   #36
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

Excellent post Porky !! I am so hyped for this season . I'm starting to get that feeling I used to when the Oilers were good and camp started up . This team has finally held onto enough players to where you can actually look forward to seeing them play every season instead of almost a different group every year . Rick Smith and Gary Scooby-Snack(thats what my 5 year old calls him ) are top notch .
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Old 07-30-2008   #37
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

Per Polo "-Okam won't start as long as TJ is healthy and on the roster."

Don't know what you are basing your information on, but TJ hasn't exactly overwhelmed with his play on the nose. Okam is (1) overweight, and (2) has the reputation of underachieving in his own right, but if I am correct in my suspicions, they will egg each other on, and make both of them better players. They are both capable of taking over a defense if the mood strikes them. I hope it does, and often this season. Should be fun to watch.
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Old 07-30-2008   #38
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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Per Polo "-Okam won't start as long as TJ is healthy and on the roster."

Don't know what you are basing your information on, but TJ hasn't exactly overwhelmed with his play on the nose. Okam is (1) overweight, and (2) has the reputation of underachieving in his own right, but if I am correct in my suspicions, they will egg each other on, and make both of them better players. They are both capable of taking over a defense if the mood strikes them. I hope it does, and often this season. Should be fun to watch.
TJ has had a solid camp, Okam has had some wow moments but he has had some disappear time.
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Old 07-30-2008   #39
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

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-Okam won't start as long as TJ is healthy and on the roster...
The following is probably too far out in left field, certainly for this year. But if TJ continues to improve over last year's performance and rounds into a player worth his draft status, and if Okam proves to be the surprise pick of this year's draft - earning a starting assignment - then one possibility would be to move Okoye outside opposite Mario.

A good example of of this type of thinking is San Francisco, who has moved Sopoaga - a classic nose tackle - outside. They think he has the quickness and feet to play out on the edge.

I can see a defensive line, at some point, consisting of Mario and Okoye on the outside and with TJ and Okam in the middle. With Mario and Okoye pressuring from the outside, Mario getting +15 sacks and Okoye getting +10 sacks, and Okam collapsing the middle, getting 4, 5, 6 sacks, things might open up for TJ so he too could get half a dozen sacks.

This could prove to be a dominant pass rush and solid against the run.
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Old 07-30-2008   #40
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Default Re: the Early Returns Are In....

Or you can have a solid rotation like most very good teams. If the top 3 tackles are all starter quality, then allowing them to stay fresh makes the team better late in games, and then nagging injuries are usually avoided.

I do not see Okoye on the outside in the NFL. He is quick for a DT, but not a 4-3 DE, now place him in a 3-4 and he might be like young Gary Walker...

Think about if we where to go into a 3-4, TJ and Okoye at DE, Okam at NT, and Mario and Colvin at OLB. That leaves Ryans in the middle with Greenwood or Diles. Maybe we are not to far off from ..... no that not going to happen.
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