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Old 07-11-2008   #21
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Default Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?

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Originally Posted by BornOrange View Post
No, weather alone doesn't win games. But it can be a factor between teams that are closely matched. Look at the lack of success of dome teams playing in cold weather during the playoffs. I guarantee you that dome teams and southern teams have a better road record in games over 40 than in under 40.


I admit I didn't think about Reliant's vertical design. Yes, it does make it difficult for air to circulate compared to the open air stadiums I am used to like UT, A&M, Rice, Baylor, etc. However, Dallas has an even worse situation with that stupid little hole in the roof. I think a big problem with the Pittsburgh game was that fans and stadium personnel just weren't prepared for a hot weather game. If everyone knows that it is going to be a sauna and takes the proper precautions (including giving someone else your tickets if you aren't able to endure the heat), there wouldn't be so many problems.

They had been publicizing the open roof all week.

They just didn't consider that it is substantially hotter inside the stadium than the outside temperature. It's not just a sauna--when you are sitting in the direct sun at the stadium, it is like being an ant being scorched by a magnifying glass.

There is no way you could have prepared for that game as a fan. You could have been buttnekkid slathered in sunscreen sitting on sheets of ice and had problems sitting in the sun area of the stadium. People had skin seared off of them from trying to sit in the seats.

Fortunately, I had shade tickets for that game and it was so hot I couldn't even drink a beer. If it is too hot to drink beer, it is too danged hot.

The conditions were dangerous.

The Texans want fans to be in their seats and not have to retreat to the concourse. Having a much better team on the field than for that awful Pittsburgh game helps. The roof policy is intended to make sure the most fans, young and old, can cheer on their team.

I do think that they could make the bottom end of that policy lower. 50 degrees inside the stadium is not that cold--no wind.
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Old 07-11-2008   #22
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Default Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?

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No, weather alone doesn't win games. But it can be a factor between teams that are closely matched. Look at the lack of success of dome teams playing in cold weather during the playoffs. I guarantee you that dome teams and southern teams have a better road record in games over 40 than in under 40.
Disagree. One, there's not that many dome teams so it's really a small sample size. Now, it goes without saying that dome teams that go on the road are not going to have as good a record as they will in the friendly confines of their dome, I'll give you that, but you can say that for every single team in the NFL. Teams home records are better than their road records. Two, don't think that just because you play in Green Bay, that you're better suited for the inclement weather. Those cold weather teams practice INDOORS, out of the elements. They aren't any more used to it than you or I. I work outside in the Houston heat and humidity and have for the last 15 years, and I can guarantee you you never get used to it. Thirdly, I'd have to go back and look it up, but I believe the Houston Texans, a warm weather, virtually a dome team, is undefeated when the temperature is below 40 degrees. Could be wrong on that, I'd have to double check. I know they beat Chicago in 5 degree weather and it seems like there was another sub 40 game the Texans won. Pittsburgh maybe?

Quote:
I think a big problem with the Pittsburgh game was that fans and stadium personnel just weren't prepared for a hot weather game. If everyone knows that it is going to be a sauna and takes the proper precautions (including giving someone else your tickets if you aren't able to endure the heat), there wouldn't be so many problems.
Disagree again. as mentioned, having worked in this Houston heat for 15 years, I was plenty prepared at the Steeler game. It was still miserable, and that's an understatement. If you can't see the field because of the sun's glare, then it's probably the massive amounts of sweat flooding into your eyes keeping you from seeing anything. Never mind that any part of your seat that isn't covered becomes 500 degrees so that pretty much keeps you from moving at all. And it's not the fans fault that the Texans ran out of water.

I know, I know, you do it all the time at A&M, UT or where ever. And if the Texans still had the roof open for days like that, and I still sat on that side of the stadium, I'd still be there every single time 'till the clock hit triple 0's, like I did the first 4 seasons and for that Steeler game. But as mentioned above, Reliant isn't an open air stadium. There is no air flow in that place with the roof open. So when you are in the sun, you might as well be in an oven.

If you want to talk about home field advantage, if there's any at all, it has more to do with the fans, being loud and getting into the game. Fans CAN affect the other team hearing the signals and such, drawing false start penalties. There's some advantage there. That Pittsburgh game took the fans out of the game and with it what ever home field advantage there might have been.
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Old 07-11-2008   #23
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Default Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?

The grass last year was fine and looked great all year long. We didn't have a torn up field all muddied up and painted green like we did the first few years. I wish we could get the blue endzones again. I was all for FieldTurf after our first couple of years but they seemed to have fixed the grass problem.

The Pittsburgh game was an absolute disaster and health hazard. We do not have a true open air stadium (hell, MMP becomes much more "open air" than Reliant when both are opened). There is no breeze at all and that is a killer combo when baking.

Now, I would like for them to bump the roof being closed if the temps are higher than 85. I don't think we should close the roof no matter how cold it gets. Now we close it if it gets below 50 which is crap IMO.

I have really enjoyed the games where the roof is open and there is a nip in the air like for Denver last year (one of the best games I have attended as a Texans fan) and Buffalo the year before that.
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Old 07-11-2008   #24
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Default Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Fortunately, I had shade tickets for that game and it was so hot I couldn't even drink a beer. If it is too hot to drink beer, it is too danged hot.
Unless the heat somehow caused the beer to evaporate on its way to my lips, I just don't see how that's possible.
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Old 07-11-2008   #25
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Default Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?

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I know, I know, you do it all the time at A&M, UT or where ever. And if the Texans still had the roof open for days like that, and I still sat on that side of the stadium, I'd still be there every single time 'till the clock hit triple 0's, like I did the first 4 seasons and for that Steeler game. But as mentioned above, Reliant isn't an open air stadium. There is no air flow in that place with the roof open. So when you are in the sun, you might as well be in an oven.
It's funny how most of us have made fun of the Girl's Stadium (Texas Stadium) as being so uncomfortably hot. Indeed, there is no air circulation in that stadium, and the humdity is terrible. However, it's roof by it's very construction, which houses only a modified peep hole that's sole function seems to be to serve as a heat sink, at least allows sanctuary to the fans, i.e., SHADE.
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Old 07-11-2008   #26
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Default Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
There is no way you could have prepared for that game as a fan. You could have been buttnekkid slathered in sunscreen sitting on sheets of ice and had problems sitting in the sun area of the stadium. People had skin seared off of them from trying to sit in the seats.

Fortunately, I had shade tickets for that game and it was so hot I couldn't even drink a beer. If it is too hot to drink beer, it is too danged hot.
While I agree that day was too hot for the roof to be open, at the end of the day fans would have been cheering and the policy would not have changed if the Texans had won. A crappy game made for an overreaction.

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They aren't any more used to it than you or I. I work outside in the Houston heat and humidity and have for the last 15 years, and I can guarantee you you never get used to it.
That is your experience but it is not a universal truth. I never liked cold weather much growing up. I took up bow hunting about a decade ago and got used to sitting in bitter cold temperatures without an encumbering amount of clothes. Now if it isn't below freezing you will find me in shorts. Some people do get acclimated.
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Old 07-11-2008   #27
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Default Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?

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They had been publicizing the open roof all week.

They just didn't consider that it is substantially hotter inside the stadium than the outside temperature. It's not just a sauna--when you are sitting in the direct sun at the stadium, it is like being an ant being scorched by a magnifying glass.

There is no way you could have prepared for that game as a fan. You could have been buttnekkid slathered in sunscreen sitting on sheets of ice and had problems sitting in the sun area of the stadium. People had skin seared off of them from trying to sit in the seats.

Fortunately, I had shade tickets for that game and it was so hot I couldn't even drink a beer. If it is too hot to drink beer, it is too danged hot.

The conditions were dangerous.

The Texans want fans to be in their seats and not have to retreat to the concourse. Having a much better team on the field than for that awful Pittsburgh game helps. The roof policy is intended to make sure the most fans, young and old, can cheer on their team.

I do think that they could make the bottom end of that policy lower. 50 degrees inside the stadium is not that cold--no wind.

I know nothing of this condition you speak of.
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Old 07-11-2008   #28
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Default Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?

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That is your experience but it is not a universal truth. I never liked cold weather much growing up. I took up bow hunting about a decade ago and got used to sitting in bitter cold temperatures without an encumbering amount of clothes. Now if it isn't below freezing you will find me in shorts. Some people do get acclimated.
Well, hardly EVER being in cold weather, I'll be the last one walking around in shorts on a 40 degree day. I absolutely love the cold, it feels good to me, and I certainly am not in it enough to become "acclimated" to it (lived in Houston all my life).

Different strokes for different folks, and so it is on a 53 man roster. Just because you're in Green Bay and in the cold and therefore should be acclimated to it, doesn't mean you like the cold any more than I like the heat down here, no matter how much I'm acclimated to it. That's why you see some guys in short-sleeves and others bundled up.

It effects individuals differently so you can't say a team has an advantage over another team because there's too many individuals that it affects differently, regardless of how acclimated they are to it.

If I was on the warm weather Texans, and had to go to Lambeau in December, I'd be jacked up and my effort might be up a notch or two, even though I haven't been in weather below 50 degrees in 2 years. Others might be dreading the frigid temps.

I remember the Chicago game and all the talk of how the frigid weather would affect the warm weather Texans play. Well, we know what happened there. It looked like the Bears were the warm weather team.

With all the different individuals on teams, I can't buy the concept of a New England having an advantage when the temperature drops. Nor do I buy that Houston has an advantage over a Pittsburgh when the temp. hits 95.

35 degrees in Pittsburgh in 2002, Texans win 24-6.
90 degrees, Steelers at Reliant, Texans lose 27-7.
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Old 07-11-2008   #29
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Default Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?

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Agree if that's true. I was under the impression that many preferred the new turf as safer with more consistent footing.
Chester Pitts was just interviewed on 610 am. He said it was worth facing the heat to practice outside to play on grass rather than the field turf in the bubble because the field turf was so much harder on the joints. They directly asked him if he wanted field turf in the stadium and he said "absolutely not."

Topical coincidence.
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Old 07-11-2008   #30
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Default Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?

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Chester Pitts was just interviewed on 610 am. He said it was worth facing the heat to practice outside to play on grass rather than the field turf in the bubble because the field turf was so much harder on the joints. They directly asked him if he wanted field turf in the stadium and he said "absolutely not."

Topical coincidence.
Wow! I'd say. It makes you wonder if these radio show hosts read the board.

If they were smart they would.
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Old 07-11-2008   #31
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Default Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?

Weather doesn't win games. Ratings, Refs and video tapes do.
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Old 07-11-2008   #32
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Default Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?

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Chester Pitts was just interviewed on 610 am. He said it was worth facing the heat to practice outside to play on grass rather than the field turf in the bubble because the field turf was so much harder on the joints. They directly asked him if he wanted field turf in the stadium and he said "absolutely not."

Topical coincidence.
Yeah, when I looked earlier the players seem to prefer grass by a decent margin, but interestingly when the NFLPA did their last survey of playing surfaces preferred by players, they came up with this order. LINK

1) Tampa Bay

2) Seattle(Field Turf)

3) Carolina

4) Detroit(Field Turf)

5) Baltimore(Sportexe)

6) Arizona

7) Atlanta(Field Turf)

8) Jacksonville

9) Indianapolis(Field Turf)

10) San Diego

11) St.Louis(Field Turf)

12) Denver

13) Washington

14) Cincinnati(Field Turf)

15) Houston

16) New York Giants/Jets(Field Turf)

17) San Francisco

18) Green Bay

19) New Orleans(Sportexe)

20) Miami

21) Tennessee

22) Dallas

23) Philadelphia

24) Minnesota(Field Turf)

25) Buffalo(Astroplay)

26) Kansas City

27) Chicago

28) Cleveland

29) Pittsburgh

30) New England(pre-Field Turf, new this year)

31) Oakland


Something doesn't add up. It's pretty equal early on, but then grass dominates the bottom of the list.
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Old 07-11-2008   #33
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Default Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?

I think the Northern cold winter stadiums with grass are at the bottom because the weather ruins the surface.

Oakland at the bottom makes sense as well because early on they have the baseball diamond and even without it that stadium has some vile fans that probably affects the voting even if only subconsciencely.
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Old 07-12-2008   #34
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Default Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?

Well weather has to play some role but I think it works against you. Remember the oilers? Who gave us problems? Pitt (cold weather). Kansas City (coldish weather). Denver (cold weather) Look at Indy. But its not the stadium. Its the way the team is built. If you build a team for a dome (St. Louis, Indy) where you're playing on astro turf and and fast, you will struggle in Dec/Jan.

I think it can work against a team but not necessarily for a team. Indy got killed in NE all those years because they were about speed, when they got into cold icy weather in NE they lose traction and the advantage they had was lost.


The Oilers lost games in Pittsburg, Pitsburg, Oakland, Denver, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Denver, Buffalo, Kansas City from 78 on.

Most of those were cold games. Especially from the Cincinnati game on. We were a dome team, especially with Moon at the helm and the dome did us many favors. You can build an offense around timing in a dome (the run and shoot) but when you get outside... well its a different story.

Just a little food for thought.

As for Reliant. I love the stadium. I say put the best surface out there, grass or turf, and let the best team win.

Mike
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Old 07-12-2008   #35
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Default Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?

That list looks pretty ridiculous because Heinz field is not on the bottom of that list.
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Old 07-12-2008   #36
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Default Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?

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Well weather has to play some role but I think it works against you. Remember the oilers? Who gave us problems? Pitt (cold weather). Kansas City (coldish weather). Denver (cold weather) Look at Indy. But its not the stadium. Its the way the team is built. If you build a team for a dome (St. Louis, Indy) where you're playing on astro turf and and fast, you will struggle in Dec/Jan.

I think it can work against a team but not necessarily for a team. Indy got killed in NE all those years because they were about speed, when they got into cold icy weather in NE they lose traction and the advantage they had was lost.


The Oilers lost games in Pittsburg, Pitsburg, Oakland, Denver, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Denver, Buffalo, Kansas City from 78 on.

Most of those were cold games. Especially from the Cincinnati game on. We were a dome team, especially with Moon at the helm and the dome did us many favors. You can build an offense around timing in a dome (the run and shoot) but when you get outside... well its a different story.

Just a little food for thought.

As for Reliant. I love the stadium. I say put the best surface out there, grass or turf, and let the best team win.

Mike
And see, all those teams you named are, or were, good football teams. Good football teams are likely going to win more home games than they will on the road against good teams. The environment sure didn't seem to be a factor that didn't favor the Oilers for the first 2 1/2 quarters of that game in Buffalo.

Good team vs. good team, the home team is more likely to win just because home teams win more than road teams do.

Of those teams you mentioned, how come Buffalo, Oakland, Cincinnati, don't use their "weather" advantage any more? How come Miami doesn't use the heat to their advantage? Where was the Lambeau effect in the 70's and 80's? It's just not there.

Now I'll agree that a team built like the '99 Rams goes into Pittsburgh after it's been raining, and yes, that will have an effect on the Rams game, but it has an effect on EVERYBODY. Both teams have to play in the conditions. Both teams have players from all over the country and each player is effected differently by the conditions. They're not effected as one.

The DOME team Colts won the Super Bowl in the pouring rain.

The New England Patriots win at home, in the cold, because they're a GOOD FOOTBALL TEAM. If the Patriots moved to San Antonio, they would win at home, in the Texas warmth, or under a roof, because they're a GOOD FOOTBALL TEAM. It has zero to do with where your stadium is at. If it did, the Texans might as well close up shop because they apparently have no chance against the cold weather teams in January.
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Old 07-12-2008   #37
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Default Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?

OK, guys, next practice....at the ice rink in the Galleria.
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Old 07-12-2008   #38
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Default Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?

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Originally Posted by Speedy View Post
And see, all those teams you named are, or were, good football teams. Good football teams are likely going to win more home games than they will on the road against good teams. The environment sure didn't seem to be a factor that didn't favor the Oilers for the first 2 1/2 quarters of that game in Buffalo.

Good team vs. good team, the home team is more likely to win just because home teams win more than road teams do.

Of those teams you mentioned, how come Buffalo, Oakland, Cincinnati, don't use their "weather" advantage any more? How come Miami doesn't use the heat to their advantage? Where was the Lambeau effect in the 70's and 80's? It's just not there.

If I'm forced to choose between a good team and a bad team, I'm going to take the good team every time. Now how long as hit been since oakland, buffalo and cincy have been good teams. Obviously if you are devoid of talent you're not going to win games. This isn't a hard fast rule, but it is a factor. I don't think that heat is as much of a factor to be honest. That's because you can do things to combat it. Cooled seats, fans etc can be used to help normalize it but there's not much you can do with 20 degree weather.

Now I'll agree that a team built like the '99 Rams goes into Pittsburgh after it's been raining, and yes, that will have an effect on the Rams game, but it has an effect on EVERYBODY. Both teams have to play in the conditions. Both teams have players from all over the country and each player is effected differently by the conditions. They're not effected as one.

The DOME team Colts won the Super Bowl in the pouring rain.

First of all.... If the colts and bears play that game anywhere.... the colts win 99 out of 100 times. The weather won't let the niner's beat the pats. Or the Bears beat the colts. But look at the Colts that year. They got to play NE at HOME. What has happened in recent history when they've had to go to NE?

The New England Patriots win at home, in the cold, because they're a GOOD FOOTBALL TEAM. If the Patriots moved to San Antonio, they would win at home, in the Texas warmth, or under a roof, because they're a GOOD FOOTBALL TEAM. It has zero to do with where your stadium is at. If it did, the Texans might as well close up shop because they apparently have no chance against the cold weather teams in January.

Ok, when the disparity is as big as the colts/bears I agree. But if you take the Pats/Colts over the last say 5-8 years... those teams are close. Usually in the conference championship, you'll be playing teams that are that close. It isn't a coincidence that in the manning/brady era the colts have yet to beat the Pats when facing the elements too.
Mike
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Old 07-12-2008   #39
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Default Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?

The Texans won't struggle in the cold. The reason why teams like Indianapolis and the Run and Gun Oilers struggle in adverse weather is largely because they designed their team to excel in a dome on astroturf. When it's 15 degrees and windy, it's good to at least have a TE on the roster and perhaps a FB or two!

The Texans are going to be a run-happy team that takes advantage of short passing and play-action. There's no reason why wind and snow will be a problem for that kind of play.
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Old 07-12-2008   #40
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Default Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?

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The Texans won't struggle in the cold. The reason why teams like Indianapolis and the Run and Gun Oilers struggle in adverse weather is largely because they designed their team to excel in a dome on astroturf. When it's 15 degrees and windy, it's good to at least have a TE on the roster and perhaps a FB or two!

The Texans are going to be a run-happy team that takes advantage of short passing and play-action. There's no reason why wind and snow will be a problem for that kind of play.
Don't know if you were talking to me, but I agree. I wasn't saying the texans would have problems with the cold. Though indy has had quite a TE manning the end of the line for quite some time. But you are right, its about quickness and route running with Indy. I wouldn't mind if it was raining cats and dogs sat and for one reason or another they weren't able to get the roof closed when indy came to town. Better yet.. maybe the sprinklers will magically come on for 2 days straight before the indy game.

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