Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-01-2008   #241
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,527
Rep Power: 83970 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

Err my bad, when I said indication was Kolb will be the third QB taken, it meant late first round, early second round.

What with Beck at 40 and Stanton at 43.
It can't mean 2nd day for Kolb!

And I brought up the Duane Brown's situation to show that:
1. I wanted Brown.
2. I wasn't sure I'd be willing to draft him that high.
3. However, when all the other LTs (even as I don't think some of them fit our scheme) are off the boards, I now have a decision to make.
Therefore, I never said the pick was a reach.

Another point is that I've said before that if the Texans FOs want to cover all the bases before the draft, they can sign a guy like Garcia, give him a better deal than the Bucs.
Garcia was slated to make $7M if he makes all the incentives (including games played and playoff appearance), but I think he was paid quite a bit less than that.

And we don't have to lose any draft pick.

Neither Kubiak nor Smith can guarantee us fans that MS can take the Texans to the playoffs last year, or even this year.

Sure, I do like the way they operate, I openly supported Kubiak from day one.

It does not mean that I won't question his move or his coaching ability.
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008   #242
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,527
Rep Power: 83970 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Well, you're pulling the 50% out of thin air. You don't know what percentage Kolb was under center. I don't know what percentage Kolb was under center. I haven't gone through any of his games and counted because I don't care. Apparently, the guys that are paid to count those things thought it was less than 50% and thought that the amount of time was a problem.

Coming out of college, VY's lack of under center experience was a big concern for a lot of guys. It was a surprise when he went to the Titans instead of Leinart. Very few people really thought he'd go that high unless he went to the Texans. The Titans took a shot with VY because of his freakish athleticism and that's why he was considered first round pick... despite his college experience.

A lot of the "system" guys who spend a lot of time in the shotgun haven't translated well to the pros. VY is one of those guys (with the jury still out). I think Carr was one of those guys. The whole Jeff Tedford crew of QB failures are in that same class, iirc. And although Kolb wasn't in that exact same offense, he was in a non-standard offense and he'd been in one offense for his entire college and high school career. There were concerns that the system inflated his numbers like Tedford's system does and like the Run And Shoot did with the Coogs back in the day and there were concerns that Kolb's numbers were the same sort of phenomena. Could he operate in a pro offense? Could he learn a new offense? Was he really as good as his stats?

Just the fact that he was a QB from UH was a huge strike against him because of the track record of UH QBs.
And of course, all of these concerns are very legitimate.

That is why we pay money to the scouting department.

I can tell you a few things:

If the Pats sent their offensive coordinator to work out Kolb privately (and not other QBs) tell me something.

If all these teams want to talk to Kolb to find out what kind of offense he ran, and how he ran it... that also tells me something.

I've watched him for four years. The 50% is not out of thin air.

Just like when we discussed about RBs, I said I have concern about Stewart (Oregon), Forte and Slaton, etc. running out of the shotgun quite a bit.
You know that I can tell whether Alridge or Jackie Battle did the same, and I never deny that fact.

I cannot profess that I've seen all the games, but I've seen enough to tell you that Pat White or Dixon were under center no more than Kolb. I want to say fewer times than Kolb, but one simply can't say for sure until one review every single game in their respective careers.
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008   #243
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,527
Rep Power: 83970 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
A lot of the "system" guys who spend a lot of time in the shotgun haven't translated well to the pros. VY is one of those guys (with the jury still out). I think Carr was one of those guys. The whole Jeff Tedford crew of QB failures are in that same class, iirc. And although Kolb wasn't in that exact same offense, he was in a non-standard offense and he'd been in one offense for his entire college and high school career. There were concerns that the system inflated his numbers like Tedford's system does and like the Run And Shoot did with the Coogs back in the day and there were concerns that Kolb's numbers were the same sort of phenomena. Could he operate in a pro offense? Could he learn a new offense? Was he really as good as his stats?

Just the fact that he was a QB from UH was a huge strike against him because of the track record of UH QBs.
As a side note, being an avid Cougars fan, I can tell you one more thing.

Neither Klinger nor Ware was high in my book.
It was Danny Davis who won us two SWC championships. He missed his junior year after an injury against Penn St. early in the season (otherwise it could have been 3 in a row.)

Guy ran the veer under Bill Yeoman (a run option offense first.)
Yet he was good enough to send a WR and a TE to the NFL.
He made good read on the option, and the Cougars also send a RB to the Pros. A balance attack.

Only Kolb surpassed him in my book even though Kolb had less success in a lesser league. Kolb simply did not have enough support all around.
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2008   #244
maddogmrb
All Pro
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 512
Rep Power: 7744 maddogmrb is a quality contributor and well respectedmaddogmrb is a quality contributor and well respectedmaddogmrb is a quality contributor and well respectedmaddogmrb is a quality contributor and well respectedmaddogmrb is a quality contributor and well respectedmaddogmrb is a quality contributor and well respectedmaddogmrb is a quality contributor and well respectedmaddogmrb is a quality contributor and well respectedmaddogmrb is a quality contributor and well respectedmaddogmrb is a quality contributor and well respectedmaddogmrb is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

Personally, I believe Kolb will be a star QB in the future. Wish we had 'em.

maddogmrb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2008   #245
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,527
Rep Power: 83970 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maddogmrb View Post
Personally, I believe Kolb will be a star QB in the future. Wish we had 'em.

You homer!
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2008   #246
maddogmrb
All Pro
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 512
Rep Power: 7744 maddogmrb is a quality contributor and well respectedmaddogmrb is a quality contributor and well respectedmaddogmrb is a quality contributor and well respectedmaddogmrb is a quality contributor and well respectedmaddogmrb is a quality contributor and well respectedmaddogmrb is a quality contributor and well respectedmaddogmrb is a quality contributor and well respectedmaddogmrb is a quality contributor and well respectedmaddogmrb is a quality contributor and well respectedmaddogmrb is a quality contributor and well respectedmaddogmrb is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
You homer!

Absolutely!

Go Coogs!

UH 38, Southern 13

maddogmrb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008   #247
FILO_girl
I'm not here
 
FILO_girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: HOU-finally moved in the big city
Posts: 1,676
Rep Power: 63 FILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
I think there are many things wrong with that. You can't just say they're equals because you want them to be ! One of them is the better QB! To say they're equal just sounds like someone who's been to way too many new-age parenting classes, and just doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Even if the people in charge of the decision ultimately think it's Sage, you play your best players!

Should we give Andre Davis more playing time in order to keep AJ hungry? Think the Pats ought to get Cassel in the game more to make sure Brady doesn't rest on his laurels?

One of these guys is better (Schaub), determine which one (Schaub), and then let whoever that is (Schaub) be your QB.
Way to attack the poster and not the post. If you have been around here for any length of time...you would know that doesn't fit me at all.

I don't agree Schaub is necessarily better and stated I needed to see him play more to convince myself that he is not fragile.
FILO_girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008   #248
ChampionTexan
Site Contributor
 
ChampionTexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,059
Rep Power: 90172 ChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FILO_girl View Post
Way to attack the poster and not the post. If you have been around here for any length of time...you would know that doesn't fit me at all.

I don't agree Schaub is necessarily better and stated I needed to see him play more to convince myself that he is not fragile.

You stated they should get equal time and be equal. I said that they shouldn't, and the idea sounded flawed and weak. That's not attacking you, that's disagreeing (or if you prefer - attacking) your suggestion.

If disagreeing (attacking) your idea is the same as attacking you, then I've attacked lots of people, and been attacked many times in return.
ChampionTexan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008   #249
FILO_girl
I'm not here
 
FILO_girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: HOU-finally moved in the big city
Posts: 1,676
Rep Power: 63 FILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
You stated they should get equal time and be equal. I said that they shouldn't, and the idea sounded flawed and weak. That's not attacking you, that's disagreeing (or if you prefer - attacking) your suggestion.

If disagreeing (attacking) your idea is the same as attacking you, then I've attacked lots of people, and been attacked many times in return.
No...I said that whoever is the best player should be the starter. No equal nothing, whoever is the best at the time should be out on the field. If we were going on your logic, Schaub would get the job regardless because he was picked to start and not based on his play. I just don't agree. My logic may be flawed in your eyes, but its how I see it. I am a survivor of the David Carr era...I am gunshy. Forgive me for this flaw.

I am not saying you are always attacking, and I knew my post would be picked apart (notice I said rip away?). There just was no need for the liberal comment as I am FARRRRRR from liberal. <--that is a sarcastic smilie
FILO_girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008   #250
Texan_Bill 
Subscribed Contributor
 
Texan_Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Houston. Mediocrity Lives Here!!
Section: Bull Pen!!
Age: 47
Posts: 48,270
Rep Power: 124794 Texan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respectedTexan_Bill is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FILO_girl View Post
<--that is a sarcastic smilie
From this day forward, one of these shall be YOUR smiley: or or
__________________
We SUCK AGAIN!
Texan_Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008   #251
ChampionTexan
Site Contributor
 
ChampionTexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,059
Rep Power: 90172 ChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

Quote:
I am not saying you are always attacking, and I knew my post would be picked apart (notice I said rip away?). There just was no need for the liberal comment as I am FARRRRRR from liberal. <--that is a sarcastic smilie
If you thought I was attempting to characterize you personally as being liberal, then it's completely understandable that you didn't like it (sarcastic smilie back at you). That wasn't my intent.

We probably agree on alot of things, but our comments on this indicate it isn't one of them. I'm okay with that, and hopefully we'll be able to agree (and disagree) on many topics down the road.
ChampionTexan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008   #252
Texanmike02
Site Contributor
 
Texanmike02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Age: 36
Posts: 8,043
Rep Power: 92530 Texanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

I'm not known for being concise but here it goes:

To sum this up. Schaub is the starter. Sage is the backup. We don't want injuries.

Mike
__________________

Sig by False Start - Thanks man

Govern my country, NOT MY LIFE!
Texanmike02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008   #253
Toro59
Rookie
 
Toro59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 59
Rep Power: 7 Toro59 is a team player
Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

Toro59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008   #254
FILO_girl
I'm not here
 
FILO_girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: HOU-finally moved in the big city
Posts: 1,676
Rep Power: 63 FILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
If you thought I was attempting to characterize you personally as being liberal, then it's completely understandable that you didn't like it (sarcastic smilie back at you). That wasn't my intent.

We probably agree on alot of things, but our comments on this indicate it isn't one of them. I'm okay with that, and hopefully we'll be able to agree (and disagree) on many topics down the road.
You're cool...and I like to see both sides of any argument, whether I am one of those arguing or not.
Shake in friendship and move on?
FILO_girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2008   #255
FILO_girl
I'm not here
 
FILO_girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: HOU-finally moved in the big city
Posts: 1,676
Rep Power: 63 FILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respectedFILO_girl is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
From this day forward, one of these shall be YOUR smiley: or or
My OWN smilie?? For reals??
I feel honored...
I like the last one...it reflects my many moods (SHUT UP, Doc)

FILO_girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2008   #256
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
 
CloakNNNdagger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 15,908
Rep Power: 209676 CloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

Since the Benson rumor is over, let me throw in a substitute to take up time and space before TC. Looks like Favre is playing his "I may not be retiring after all" preseason card. Green Bay is probably tired of being screwed around annually. So where may he go?????...........a mere speculation?........unlikely?...............but it's out there now...........let the good times roll.................

From ESPN:

Quote:
Houston Texans: This could be a sleeper team. The Texans are on the verge of good things, but they are not exactly settled at quarterback. Sage Rosenfels is waiting in the wings should Matt Schaub have issues. If Favre were available, then Texans coach Gary Kubiak, a quarterback lover, would be tempted.
CloakNNNdagger is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2008   #257
ChampionTexan
Site Contributor
 
ChampionTexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,059
Rep Power: 90172 ChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedChampionTexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Since the Benson rumor is over, let me throw in a substitute to take up time and space before TC. Looks like Favre is playing his "I may not be retiring after all" preseason card. Green Bay is probably tired of being screwed around annually. So where may he go?????...........a mere speculation?........unlikely?...............but it's out there now...........let the good times roll.................

From ESPN:
Quote:
Houston Texans: This could be a sleeper team. The Texans are on the verge of good things, but they are not exactly settled at quarterback. Sage Rosenfels is waiting in the wings should Matt Schaub have issues. If Favre were available, then Texans coach Gary Kubiak, a quarterback lover, would be tempted.

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!
ChampionTexan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008   #258
Thorn 
Dirty Old Man
 
Thorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Houston
Section: Restrained in the mental ward
Age: 63
Posts: 22,116
Rep Power: 263584 Thorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respectedThorn is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

Well, there’s some good fishing at Lake Livingston, which is between Louisiana and Houston. Favre might like it here.

I kid, I kid.
__________________


"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." --- John Wayne
Thorn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008   #259
whiskeyrbl
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!
No way he comes here. GB or CBS commentator for Favre.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2008   #260
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
 
Maddict5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,477
Rep Power: 5500 Maddict5 is a quality contributor and well respectedMaddict5 is a quality contributor and well respectedMaddict5 is a quality contributor and well respectedMaddict5 is a quality contributor and well respectedMaddict5 is a quality contributor and well respectedMaddict5 is a quality contributor and well respectedMaddict5 is a quality contributor and well respectedMaddict5 is a quality contributor and well respectedMaddict5 is a quality contributor and well respectedMaddict5 is a quality contributor and well respectedMaddict5 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

hell will freeze over first
Maddict5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger