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Old 06-24-2008   #201
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

I believe Smithiak acknowledged at the time that the QB question was going to decide the fate of both of their jobs. As said above, they obviously were not comfortable putting their careers in Sage's hands, and they knew they had to cut their losses with Carr.

So when you are making that type of momentous decision on a guy you have no personal experience with, you better make some calls. I'm sure Art Briles would (or did) say some wonderful things about Kolb, but if Kolb busts, then it would be hard to go to Bob McNair and explain "Well, the C-USA guy who spent most of his career coaching Friday night games said that he would be good." Compare Schaub's references: "Well, NFL guys like Al Groh and Bill Musgrave (who, incidentally, played for me with the Broncos) said that he would be good." And I mean no disrespect to Briles in that, but, by the Spring of 2007, the only QB he coached above the HS level was Kolb. So I can see Smithiak doubting whether Briles say-so was reliable enough.
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Old 06-24-2008   #202
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

In all honesty, Sage would be the story. You know, the underdog. He really is already. I see Sage as one of those guys who has absolutely maximized his potential, works his @55 off and doesn't quit. I have tons of respect for a guy like that but I just don't think he is the guy who takes us where we're trying to go.

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Old 06-24-2008   #203
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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Originally Posted by Hooston Texan View Post
I believe Smithiak acknowledged at the time that the QB question was going to decide the fate of both of their jobs. As said above, they obviously were not comfortable putting their careers in Sage's hands, and they knew they had to cut their losses with Carr.
& I'm fine with that, but no one said they had to have the QB of the future last off-season.

If the guy isn't out there, then in my opinion, you don't go trading away future draft picks, and give a bunch of money to a guy who could be the one.

If Smithiak thinks Schaub can be special, then that's cool, and I'll have my fingers crossed.

But if they had drafted Kolb, or Beck, and he didn't work out, it would be a much easier pill to swallow, IMHO, than the guy you brought in off the street to lead this team to a SuperBowl.
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Old 06-24-2008   #204
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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Take all the logic applied for for the bolded statement and replace Feeley with Rosenfels. McNair realized he made a mistake in the extension to Carr's contract. Daddy Shanahan nixed us making a Jake Plummer trade ironically to TB whom signed Garcia. If I remember right we even trade to make a run at...Patrick Ramsey. That to me alone says how this staff feels about Sage Rosenfels as a starter. Backup is a different story, he is a good borderline great backup.

I'm with Mike on this one. If Schaub isn't the answer at QB then it's in probably playing College ball now.
I really think, after this season is over, the Texans fan base is going to start making noise (more noise than usual) about drafting a round 1 or round 2 QB in the next draft.

All aspects of the team have been tinkered with, with high round picks, except QB. We went after tons of defensive players in the recent drafts, we got a round 1 OL that people have been screaming for, and we even added a 3rd round RB--THAT'S a pretty big leap for someone like Kubiak who traditionally has spent late rounders on the position.

Maybe next year is the draft where QB is addressed a lot earlier than it ever has been. Well, except for David Carr getting picked 1st overall. Doh!
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Old 06-24-2008   #205
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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Didn't Miami take a QB 4 picks behind the Eagles?? John Beck... unless you're saying that Philly overrated Kolb.

But with McNabb missing major time for two years running, & he's not getting any younger.. I think it was a good move by the Eagles to get a QB, and start working with him.

but that's just me.
I do think Philly overrated Kolb. I could be wrong but I don't think that Miami would have taken Kolb. But if he's the guy Reid wanted, great. And there may be other teams that were looking at Kolb as a high pick but I just don't remember that much buzz around him going into the draft. (Although I'll grant you that doesn't mean all that much.)

But look at Philly's position at that point, they've got their franchise guy and they've got a backup that led them to the playoffs when the franchise guy was hurt (Feeley.) They needed playmakers and they've got some other big needs on defense as well.

Instead of getting someone who could help immediately, they invested in a risky guy that may or may not transition well to the pros and definitely won't be helping them anytime soon. And they miss the playoffs for only the 3rd time in the 9 years of Reid's tenure but the 2nd time in 3 years.

If they take someone else there, maybe they make the playoffs. Maybe not. But if I'm an Eagles fan (and I am, kinda), I consider that choice a mistake... at least in the short term.

But that's just me.
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Old 06-24-2008   #206
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

Texans have gone from thinking they need an elite QB (drafting Carr #1 overall) to a system that just needs competance @ the position. Schaub fills that role as does Sage. our playmakers are @ DE, MLB, WR & hopefully RB with a strong cast of linemen on both sides of the ball. its all about winning the trenches & this year the Texans are prepared to win the war.

Sage is an important interchangeable part needed to compete for a Superbowl
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Old 06-24-2008   #207
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
I do think Philly overrated Kolb. I could be wrong but I don't think that Miami would have taken Kolb. But if he's the guy Reid wanted, great. And there may be other teams that were looking at Kolb as a high pick but I just don't remember that much buzz around him going into the draft. (Although I'll grant you that doesn't mean all that much.)...
Sorta' sounds like a Duane Brown situation to me.

Maybe Reid wanted Kolb badly enough to make the reach, thinking that Miami is sitting there waiting to scoop him up.

It's going to be very interesting to see how the Philly QB situation plays out. I'm betting that Kolb is the starting QB in fairly short order. Donovan's days seem to be numbered, IMO, and I don't think Reid hangs his hat on Donovan this year.

Seems like the writing was on the wall last summer, as a matter of fact, with how chilly the air was between Reid and McNabb.
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Old 06-24-2008   #208
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

I think some people are forgeting that last year was Schaub's first year in Houston and his first full season as starter .

So, he was a first time starter, coming into a new situation, new teamates,new coaches, new city etc. And after one injury plagued season some of you have already given up on him.

Personally I think we can win with MS. I think he's naturally going to get better, since he has a season under his belt with the team. I think now he understands what it takes to last a full season in the NFL.
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Old 06-24-2008   #209
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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Sorta' sounds like a Duane Brown situation to me.
I can see where you might make that comparison but I have to consider the guys responsible for making the respective picks. Brown was Alex Gibbs' selection - now I couldn't tell you if Duane Brown was AG's first choic (I kinda doubt it) maybe some of you guys might know. On the other hand Andy Reid picked Kolb. Reid doesn't have near the rep for developing QBs as Gibbs has for developing O-linemen.

The difference in the respective "brain trusts" is why I consider Brown less of "a reach" than Kolb was.
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Old 06-25-2008   #210
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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and we even added a 3rd round RB--THAT'S a pretty big leap for someone like Kubiak who traditionally has spent late rounders on the position.
How is that a big leap? Denver (with Kubiak) drafts running backs around there all the time.
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Old 06-25-2008   #211
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

FWIW On NFL Radio the Adam and Gill both raved about Kolb, figuring he was not one of the elite of the draft but was RIGHT behind them only because he needed some work.
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Old 06-25-2008   #212
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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I really think, after this season is over, the Texans fan base is going to start making noise (more noise than usual) about drafting a round 1 or round 2 QB in the next draft.

All aspects of the team have been tinkered with, with high round picks, except QB. We went after tons of defensive players in the recent drafts, we got a round 1 OL that people have been screaming for, and we even added a 3rd round RB--THAT'S a pretty big leap for someone like Kubiak who traditionally has spent late rounders on the position.

Maybe next year is the draft where QB is addressed a lot earlier than it ever has been. Well, except for David Carr getting picked 1st overall. Doh!
Sure but that scenario is banking on Schaub not being a legit QB. Something tells me Kubiak wouldn't have made such a big leap on the trade and following contract(which i think people need to revisit the terms for it being nicely structured if we wanted to part with him after 3 years) if he didn't think Matt had all the tools to make it. That scenario includes your boy Sage not being it either.

Clinton Portis was a second round selection; Tatum Bell was too. The same could be said for some of the o-linemen Denver has selected. People's eyes get big as saucers because they see a hit in the late rounds and see great value for such late round picks when it's not always that way.

I think realistically unless Schaub proves himself fragile as Chris Chandler he's going to get three years at least here.
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Old 06-25-2008   #213
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

we didn't pay schaub that much. his contract isn't as big as you think if we were to split ways after the first few years. it was a much better pick than a rookie QB for so many reasons you guys cant seem to wrap your heads around. he was in the NFL learning for three years. He was in a ZBS scheme coached by Gibbs (who Kubiak obviously intended to immulate weather Gibbs was here or not) he was the type of QB that this system wants.

i don't understand why anyone could argue that it wasn't a good deal for us. get over this shiny new QB thing and pay attention to the football trinity. these guys know what they are doing.
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Old 06-25-2008   #214
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

while I'm not ready to bust into next years draft I have taken a glimpse of next years QB class & its nothing to get excited about, lots of guys to develop. Brink will have one year ahead of all em. Sage could easily earn a starting spot in the right situation. I would think Rick & Gary have explained the situation in depth with him so he knows where he stands. It might be in everyones best interest to restructure his contract with incentive layden bonus money so he can fulfill his personel matters with still plenty of time to market his services should that 2nd rd. pick materialize (which I think it will eventually). but as I stated earlier its a great position of strength for the Texans going into this upcoming season.

haven't run this idea by anyone (since the Texans have not had this luxury) but if the game is hand why not sit Matt the last quarter so Sage can get his reps & stay sharp? keeping Matt healthier, longer into the season/playoffs.....
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Old 06-25-2008   #215
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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No one saw that the Eagles were going to take a QB, let alone one that early. That was a total surprise.

Very few people expected Kolb to go that high and most of those were Houston homers. Kolb was a system QB who wasn't accustomed to being under center and had been in the same system through HS and college. There were a ton of doubts whether he could adapt to the NFL. The Eagles saw something and took a risk and it appears they got it right... but that's not for sure, yet.

That whole trading scenario seems extremely unlikely to me.
That is absolutely untrue.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?...earch=&start=0

If you go through all these clips (some are duplicates, so you have to screen them out), you should find that roughly (sometimes they don't show the beginning so you can't tell where he lined up) the numbers are as followed:

11 times under center.
9 times in the shot gun.

Briles' spread offense has many plays similar to the WCO. And notice when Kolb needs to, he releases the ball very quickly.

Like I said, the Texans found a guy who's well suited for their offense in MS.
He also had a few years in the league under his belt.
Their philosophy is to get as much done before the draft as possible.
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Old 06-25-2008   #216
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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and we even added a 3rd round RB--THAT'S a pretty big leap for someone like Kubiak who traditionally has spent late rounders on the position.
Traditionally, Kubiak never was in charge of a draft until getting to Houston. Oh and if you are going to merge Shanahan and Kubiak, they had spent two 2nd rounders in the years preceding their coming here.
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Old 06-25-2008   #217
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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Traditionally, Kubiak never was in charge of a draft until getting to Houston. Oh and if you are going to merge Shanahan and Kubiak, they had spent two 2nd rounders in the years preceding their coming here.
I knew of Clinton Portis (2002), who was the other 2nd round RB??
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Old 06-25-2008   #218
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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I knew of Clinton Portis (2002), who was the other 2nd round RB??
Tatum Bell--9th pick, 2nd round 2004.
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Old 06-25-2008   #219
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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Traditionally, Kubiak never was in charge of a draft until getting to Houston. Oh and if you are going to merge Shanahan and Kubiak, they had spent two 2nd rounders in the years preceding their coming here.
Right. Kubiak was the OC... I'm sure he had his stand on the table moments in the war room, but during Kubiak's time in Denver the draft belonged to GMs Beake, Dahlen, and Sundquist - and of course HC Shanahan.
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Old 06-25-2008   #220
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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Traditionally, Kubiak never was in charge of a draft until getting to Houston. Oh and if you are going to merge Shanahan and Kubiak, they had spent two 2nd rounders in the years preceding their coming here.
They also drafted Maurice Clarett in the 3rd round (Yeah, he was a bust, but he also was another running back taken on the first day of the draft.) Denver drafting Running backs in the top three rounds is not rare, it's actually pretty common.
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