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Old 06-17-2008   #121
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Let's see how your memory comports with the facts:

1st possession--no passing attempts inside RZ
2nd possession--never in RZ
3rd possession--never in RZ
4th possession--never in RZ
5th possession--never in RZ
6th possession--never in RZ
7th possession--never in RZ
8th possession--2 incomplete passes from 4 (set up by 24 yard pass)
9th possession--never in RZ

So you are basing your opinion on a single possession. Gotcha.



Well what you bolded is the point. Having AJ made Sage look better. Comparing one QB with AJ and one without is apples and oranges.



I do, but that wasn't the point hence my not saying anything one way or the other above. The point is you were neglecting to consider a key piece of information.



That would be your assumption. It is just as reasonable to believe Kubiak honestly believes Schaub is clearly better.
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Since when have the Texans capitulated to knee-jerk fans?
What's funny about Rosenfel's situation is that he would have a better chance at being traded had he sat out the camps and OTAs. Because Sage is a class act, the Texans can count on him as a valuable backup and not rocking the boat.

Gary Kubiak believes that Matt Schaub is the better QB. It's his opinion that counts and it's his job that is at stake. I doubt Kubiak is alone in the opinion in the NFL. Schaub's value was two 2nd round draft picks. And that's before he became a NFL starter. Had the Texans been offered two 2nd round draft picks for Rosenfels this offseason, some other fan board would be discussing how good Sage is/isn't.
First Infantry comes in and hits a bunch of body blows and then Lucky comes in with the uppercut and knocks out GP.

Lucky you knowTexans Mgt does this hence we drafted a RB ....... errr Nevermind we drafted the stud DE that was just a workout warrior.
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Old 06-17-2008   #122
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Different situation, Bledsoe was a over the hill has been on his last leg, who ended up losing his starting position midseason to a young up and comer.
not to mention that Romo "got paid" the very next year
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Old 06-17-2008   #123
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
Bledsoe played his way out of that spot. That's kind of my point. You don't bring a guy in, pay him a ton of money, and have him sit on the bench. I'll admit its backwards, but he's going to have to play his way off the field


But if you don't do it that way then you wind up with Brooks Bollinger and Chris Redman fighting to see who's the better QB because typically its QBs of that caliber that are looking for "a chance to compete".

Mike
Not that I agree, but I think that is the point some folks are trying to make. They don't think Matt is light-years ahead of Sage right now. And if given an even chance, Sage could win the starter spot.

Talentwise, right now, there isn't light-years difference between the two. But Matt is younger and therefore, theoretically, has more upside. Sage would have to be significantly better, which he isn't at this moment in time, to pull a Romo and bump Matt out of the starter's job.
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Old 06-17-2008   #124
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Wow, by reading this post you'd think this is Minnesota or something. Seriously you act like Houston is taking the field with Kyle Boller.

Lighten up, both our QBs last year did a pretty good job. We have TWO quality QBs and last year was really their first solid year of starting experience so regardless of who we go with BOTH OF THEM still have room for improvement.

Another thing, I don't like to look back with the mindset "gee we could've had two 2nd round picks", because you don't know how those picks would've turned out. As long as we're getting talent back for picks that we give up in a trade I'm happy. Also the Schaub trade really only cost us one 2nd rounder, because with two 2nd picks.......we did get a player "with talent" back.

I mean, do you think people are questioning the Browns for trading away all those picks for Brady Quinn now that Derek Anderson came out of nowhere......no, because when you have a need, you fill it. At the time, we had a need for a new QB and we filled it........as long as my FO is filling needs on this team, I'll be happy and won't keep looking back with a "woulda shoulda coulda" attitude...........especially when they keep plucking gems out of the later rounds.
Good post and a rep coming for you.

What interests me is a sense I get that perhaps we are over-valuing the worth of a second-round pick. I think the reason for this lies in the fact that the Texans have had exactly one second-round pick in the last five drafts. But, as it happens, we knocked that lone pick right out of the park: DeMeco Ryans. So, in some folks' minds, Schaub cost us two DeMeco's--if that's the metric, even I (the biggest Schaub homer on this board) agree that we paid too much for Matt.

But the fact is that Demeco is the exception rather than the rule for second-round picks. Certainly, you expect a good player in the second round, but to think that we gave up sure-fire future rookies-of-the-year/Pro-Bowlers is ascribing way too much worth to the pick.

Of course, it could also be that we are a bit battle-scarred over giving away/wasting second-rounders for the likes of Tony Hollings, Jason Babin and Philip Buchanon.

If Matt plays like Kubiak believes he is capable, then this will be the best trade the Texans have made so far.

Last edited by Hooston Texan; 06-17-2008 at 09:52 AM. Reason: grammar
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Old 06-17-2008   #125
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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Originally Posted by Hooston Texan View Post
I (the biggest Schaub homer on this board) agree that we paid too much for Matt.
I disagree... to a point.

We got a QB who was ready to start from day one. No way you're going to get that, in the second round, or the first round for that matter.

I criticize the deal, because I think we already had a QB that could have started for us from day one, and done just as well.

I understand some people think Sage could never get us to the Super Bowl, no knock on Matt, but I don't think our chances have greatly increased when we added him to the roster.
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Old 06-17-2008   #126
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I understand some people think Sage could never get us to the Super Bowl, no knock on Matt, but I don't think our chances have greatly increased when we added him to the roster.
I think Schaub is better than Sage, but not two 2nd round draft choices and the millions for his contract better. But we'll all see this season what's up, and maybe our back and forth arguing on this subject will be finally cleared up.
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Old 06-17-2008   #127
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I disagree... to a point.

We got a QB who was ready to start from day one. No way you're going to get that, in the second round, or the first round for that matter.

I criticize the deal, because I think we already had a QB that could have started for us from day one, and done just as well.

I understand some people think Sage could never get us to the Super Bowl, no knock on Matt, but I don't think our chances have greatly increased when we added him to the roster.
Just so that we're on the same page: I was not saying that I think two second-rounders was too much to pay for Matt. I was only saying that two-second rounders would be too much if we were somehow guaranteed that those picks would have produced two DeMeco-caliber players. Of course, there are no such guarantees, even in the most bountiful of drafts.
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Old 06-17-2008   #128
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

Not to be harsh on GP, but what do you guys think that you are saying that's going to make him change his mind? He has been on the Sage kick since the middle of last season. It's not going to change now, and I think really the only thing left is for both QB's to prove it on the field. If GP gets his wish, Schaub will get injured and Sage will step in and win games.

If the others (seeing as how there's about 5 people arguing for Schaub and only 1 against) get their wish, Schaub isn't going to get near injured and will win games himself by being a good QB.

Nothing is going to change until one of those two things happen, so I hope you guys like typing really furiously with red faces and possibly shaking your fist.
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Old 06-17-2008   #129
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
Not to be harsh on GP, but what do you guys think that you are saying that's going to make him change his mind? He has been on the Sage kick since the middle of last season. It's not going to change now, and I think really the only thing left is for both QB's to prove it on the field. If GP gets his wish, Schaub will get injured and Sage will step in and win games.

If the others (seeing as how there's about 5 people arguing for Schaub and only 1 against) get their wish, Schaub isn't going to get near injured and will win games himself by being a good QB.

Nothing is going to change until one of those two things happen, so I hope you guys like typing really furiously with red faces and possibly shaking your fist.
So why do we do it, you ask?

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Old 06-18-2008   #130
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
Not to be harsh on GP, but what do you guys think that you are saying that's going to make him change his mind? He has been on the Sage kick since the middle of last season. It's not going to change now, and I think really the only thing left is for both QB's to prove it on the field. If GP gets his wish, Schaub will get injured and Sage will step in and win games.

If the others (seeing as how there's about 5 people arguing for Schaub and only 1 against) get their wish, Schaub isn't going to get near injured and will win games himself by being a good QB.

Nothing is going to change until one of those two things happen, so I hope you guys like typing really furiously with red faces and possibly shaking your fist.
Thorn and Thunderkyss are saying the same thing I am.

I just take it a step further and say, "Schaub's going to get injured again."

I don't wish it to happen. I don't know why you would accuse me of wishing it to happen. It's just going to happen. Just as we know another Bengals player will be arrested sometime this month, just as T.O. will continue to be T.O., so will Schaub get hurt. Don't see why I'm being made out to be the devil on this.

I don't see Schaub staying healthy through the season. Schaub doing well means my team does well. But my hopes are not pinned to Matt Schaub. Not by a mile.

How many times do I have to say that I think NEITHER quarterback is good enough? They're the same guy but with different attributes.
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Old 06-18-2008   #131
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Thorn and Thunderkyss are saying the same thing I am.

I just take it a step further and say, "Schaub's going to get injured again."

I don't wish it to happen. I don't know why you would accuse me of wishing it to happen. It's just going to happen. Just as we know another Bengals player will be arrested sometime this month, just as T.O. will continue to be T.O., so will Schaub get hurt. Don't see why I'm being made out to be the devil on this.

I don't see Schaub staying healthy through the season. Schaub doing well means my team does well. But my hopes are not pinned to Matt Schaub. Not by a mile.

How many times do I have to say that I think NEITHER quarterback is good enough? They're the same guy but with different attributes.

OK. So here's my question. Why do people predict injuries based on ONE year? Its a fools prediction (not that I'm calling you a fool). I mean ok... you can say that about Freddy Taylor or Griffey JR after several consecutive years on the DL. But about a guy who's had 1 year as a starter? If the line improved... and if we have a running game, wouldn't he be less likely to get hurt? Is Drob Injury prone? Look when Green came here I was critical. I said he would get hurt. But that was based on a six year history and the fact that he was turning 30.


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Old 06-18-2008   #132
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

By that thought process Green Bay should have cut Farve after his one year pain killer addiction. I mean it happened one year, it's down hill from there.
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Old 06-18-2008   #133
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
How many times do I have to say that I think NEITHER quarterback is good enough? They're the same guy but with different attributes.
So they're the exact same thing except different by your resoning. (I love when people bring back the 3rd grade reasoning, it just clears everything up for the rest of us)

Scaub is better then Sage, and I'm a big Sage fan its just that, if Schaub can stay healthy I can't see why that chemistry seen between him and AJ in those 4 games they did play together won't be reinstated into his game (if your looking for stats AJ got 23 copletions 419 yards and 4 TD catches.

I can't disagree with the rest of your post though. I personally don't think Schaub will have a injury plagued career but seeing as Sage is still in town I tend to think that the FO still have there doubts. Sage is a good QB and should get a chance to start after this year plenty of teams have needs under center. (KC, CHI, MIN, possibly CAR if Delhomme can't stay healthy)
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Old 06-18-2008   #134
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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Thorn and Thunderkyss are saying the same thing I am.

I just take it a step further and say, "Schaub's going to get injured again."

I don't wish it to happen. I don't know why you would accuse me of wishing it to happen. It's just going to happen. Just as we know another Bengals player will be arrested sometime this month, just as T.O. will continue to be T.O., so will Schaub get hurt. Don't see why I'm being made out to be the devil on this.

I don't see Schaub staying healthy through the season. Schaub doing well means my team does well. But my hopes are not pinned to Matt Schaub. Not by a mile.

How many times do I have to say that I think NEITHER quarterback is good enough? They're the same guy but with different attributes.
Real classy I tell ya, real classy. Wanting a QB to get hurt just so you are proven right is ... ok I will not go there but you get my meaning.

How any true fan of a team can do this is beyond my comprehention skills, can one of you genius please inlighten me on how a true fan wants the starting QB to get hurt?
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Old 06-18-2008   #135
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

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Real classy I tell ya, real classy. Wanting a QB to get hurt just so you are proven right is ... ok I will not go there but you get my meaning.

How any true fan of a team can do this is beyond my comprehention skills, can one of you genius please inlighten me on how a true fan wants the starting QB to get hurt?
Quote:
I just take it a step further and say, "Schaub's going to get injured again."

I don't wish it to happen. I don't know why you would accuse me of wishing it to happen. It's just going to happen.
Spec, GP said ^^^^ . That hardly sounds like he 'wants' it to happen.

Now with that out of the way, I question why he is sooo sure that Schaub will get hurt. Based on one season? Based on a couple of vicious shots that would have sidelined just about anyone in the league?



Well.... just as long as "they are the same thing only different", we should be fine...
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Old 06-18-2008   #136
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

I don't have any facts to back up my feelings. It's just something that I see in Matt Schaub that doesn't compute with what I see from someone like Brett Favre (whom was mentioned by another poster a few posts ago). Brett Favre is different than Schaub. The guy took a beating and still played. How many games did Brett miss? Comparing Brett to Matt is not a good comparison.

I don't hate Matt Schaub. I don't love David Carr and I certainly was glad to see him leave. And I don't think Sage is any better than Schaub. But just because I'm bold enough to say I don't worship Matt and that I don't drink a gallon of his bathwater...like everyone else is supposed to do, I guess...it makes me a creep; a guy who desires to see him get hurt. (sigh) You guys who have piled onto me have put words into my mouth on that one.

I have my opinion. I suspect others feel this way, too. But obviously by the way I'm getting roasted here on this subject there are some who aren't going to come out and voice it, as well.

And, since this is the way message boards "go," we're not going to make each other accept one another's opinions on this. All I'm saying is that I won't be shocked when some other QB is taking the snaps for us this season.
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Old 06-18-2008   #137
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

I get positive reps and even comments from other posters on these posts, but I don't see those same people supporting my opinions here in the open.

That says a lot about the culture or climate of this board. People see me getting bashed, and they ain't about to jump into it themselves.

Oh well. LOL. This is still the best place for Texans news and conversation, so it's where I hang out. I know that I agree with you guys on about 99% of the other stuff, I just don't see eye to eye on this one. No biggee.
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Old 06-18-2008   #138
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

What worries me most about Schaub's injuries last year was that they reoccurred all season long. If you go back to the post-game quotes from last season, Kubiak mentions Schaub being 'dinged up' in one way or another from the Falcons game, when he got smacked and bruised his thigh breaking for the end zone (4th game of the year), basically through the rest of the season. It wasn't just one or two freak tackles, the guy was hurting in one way or another all year from various injuries, and it admittedly affected his play. Now, I understand that a football player is basically never 100% once the season has begun, but Schaub seemed to take more than his fair share of licks and he either couldn't stay on the field, or his play was affected when he could.

If he'd torn a ligament or some freak injury like that to start the season, I wouldn't be too overly concerned about something like that happening again. But it wasn't just a one time deal last year, it was multiple reoccurring, cumulative, lingering injuries. Schaub's still my guy, but as I said before I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that for various reasons he stays healthier this year.
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Old 06-18-2008   #139
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GP View Post
I get positive reps and even comments from other posters on these posts, but I don't see those same people supporting my opinions here in the open.

That says a lot about the culture or climate of this board. People see me getting bashed, and they ain't about to jump into it themselves.

Oh well. LOL. This is still the best place for Texans news and conversation, so it's where I hang out. I know that I agree with you guys on about 99% of the other stuff, I just don't see eye to eye on this one. No biggee.
You really have a serious victims mentality here. It's you versus the board.
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Old 06-18-2008   #140
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Default Re: Sage want a chance to be a starter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by V3rm0nt3r View Post
So they're the exact same thing except different by your resoning. (I love when people bring back the 3rd grade reasoning, it just clears everything up for the rest of us)
I don't know if this is fair. It's a direct insult to GP, and he definitely doesn't deserve this. His point, is that Matt & Sage are the same type of QB. & there are some similarities to their game. Neither have rocket arms, though they can both throw far enough downfield. They're both technically sound, and understand the game, and the system.


Quote:
Originally Posted by V3rm0nt3r View Post
Scaub is better then Sage, and I'm a big Sage fan its just that, if Schaub can stay healthy I can't see why that chemistry seen between him and AJ in those 4 games they did play together won't be reinstated into his game (if your looking for stats AJ got 23 copletions 419 yards and 4 TD catches.
What can you point to, to say that Schaub is better than Sage?? I didn't see him play better than Sage.

I think Sage is a bit more of a Gambler, so he is more likely to force the ball, leading to more interceptions. I'm not saying Sage is in the same class a Bret Farve(it took me 16 years to actually appreciate Bret's game), but I personally don't have a problem with the gunslinger mentallity. With recievers like ours(AJ at least, Jacoby hopefully), I actually prefer it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by V3rm0nt3r View Post
I can't disagree with the rest of your post though. I personally don't think Schaub will have a injury plagued career but seeing as Sage is still in town I tend to think that the FO still have there doubts. Sage is a good QB and should get a chance to start after this year plenty of teams have needs under center. (KC, CHI, MIN, possibly CAR if Delhomme can't stay healthy)
Sage being a Texan has no reflection on the FOs opinion about Matt. had the team got an offer for a second round pick, Sage would have been gone. In the next few months, if any team would put together a package that holds value to the FO, sage will be gone. If I were the Texans, I'd offer Sage for Ricky Williams straight up. Hell, I'd offer Sage, & Ahman Green for Ricky Williams.

But I have no problem seeing where GP is coming from. Matt only took a small(relatively speaking) number of hits. Two were pretty good shots, both resulted in injury.

I'm not saying he's got a glass jaw or anything, but he is definitely no man of steel.
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