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Old 05-03-2008   #401
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Default Re: Duane Brown: First Round pick of the Texans

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
True the overall performance of the O was better than the D, but there was a clear problem remaining on the O--Salaam giving up 10 sacks and who knows how many QB hurries, hits, etc. How many of those resulted in INT's, fumbles and 3rd downs not converted? Salaam did a great job for who he is supposed to be, a backup, but there were two giant problems on O and those were LT and RB--the Texans addressed both in the off-season.

Here is the other equation--overall value. Imagine the Texans use a point system and are sitting there with Cason and Brown available at 26 with Cason ranked at 86 and Brown at 80 but then they look down their board and see that what's likely in the third are a LT they have ranked at 20 and Molden who they have ranked at 60. The overall better value to the team is Brown and Molden.
I agree with you 100% icak in theory just not in practice in this example. I just feel the team panicked a bit and in hindsight could have gotten more value with Collins or Hills in the 3rd.

I just hate when we keep trying to fit square pegs into round holes. thats all.
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Old 05-03-2008   #402
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Default Re: Duane Brown = Texans' First Round Choice

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
You know, I'm pretty sure you just try to say stuff to get other people to respond with statements like this. It's obvious that people are willing to discuss their points with LZ (See Lucky's very well thought out post above your absolutely crappy one) in a normal and lucid manner. You try to get people mad and embellish your opinions to the point of them being inflammatory (Or you really need some meds to help calm you down some). This is why you get shit on with most of your posts, and people call you a troll and whatnot, while LZ gets tons of respect. Just saying.

To end my thoughts on Brown. It's pretty much a week after the draft. We'll start having mini-camp news and OTA news coming soon, and I think we can only really begin to scratch the surface of what we will think of the Brown pick when that starts. I am glad the Texans got some value for trading down (Slaton, Barber), and they still picked up a guy they were targeting. Sure he went a little early (But he's not getting a 30 million dollar contract either, so it's moot), but I don't see anybody left in the 3rd rounds or later that I would think could fill the shoes of "starting LT" in the NFL.

Oh how soon we forget the pathetic drafting of Asserly.
bong, do you really think i care what you or really anyone on this board thinks about me? i never have and i never will.

sorry that I aint one of the sheeple. never have been and never will be. you would think some of you would learn that its ok to criticize your team and its ok for others to criticize your team. you would think you would have learned that after the littany of errors this team has made in the past but every move was practically championed and praised by all of the sheeple until the whole outhouse went up in flames.

bong, your not a sheeple. you do have a legitiimate non-homer take and that is great. i have liked reading much of your stuff. just dont bash me because I am not on the 'Gibbs Is God' bandwagon before he even coaches one freaking down for us. and don't bash me for feeling they reached and panicked after the run on LTs in the early and mid 1st Round. i get 'shit on' with my posts? generally if people on this board disagree with me, that means I am right, so take that for what its worth.

how many Super Bowls has Gibbs been to without Elway? ZERO. Excuse me if I wait for him to 'Show Me' that he can make it work here. You would think based on some people's opinions of his system that defensive lines will part like Moses at the Red Sea and we will run through the playoffs like a hot knife through butter.

the same argument yall use on me about brown 'wait and see' is the same argument i use about gibbs. i aint crownin' his ass yet.
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Old 05-03-2008   #403
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Default Re: Duane Brown: First Round pick of the Texans

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
It sounds like you think they should have used a 1st round pick on defense "irregardless of value". What info do you have that DBrown wasn't the highest player on the board for them- certainly he was for the Chargers who picked Cason right after us.

Are you actually going to criticize the same team who chose Mario over Reggie and Vince two years ago for under-emphasizing the defense?

Let's look at the attention to defense the past three off-seasons:

2006: 1st and 2nd round- Mario and Demeco, signing of Weaver, Maddox, WRainer, Kalu, Cochran, etc...

2007: 1st, 4th, 5th round- Okoye, Bennett, Harrison, signing of Danny Clark, Fletcher, Demps, trade for M.Boulware.

2008: 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th round- Molden, Adibi, Okam, Barber, signing of J.Reeves, Bentley, CThompson



I'm not sure how anyone could honestly suggest that this team doesn't adequately weight the importance of defense. Your argument really has nothing to stand on. We know other teams also had Brown rated ahead of guys like Cason and that he wouldn't have made it out of the 1st round. Also, clearly, the team has sunk a lot of money and picks into the defense the past 3 years. So, what's your point other than an inability to admit when you are in error.
so in the previous two drafts we get 4 quality defenders and you act like we have devoted our life to defense in Texans land draft-wise. for schaub alone we spent two 2nd Rounders....but that doesnt support your argument now does it?

we have gone defense in the 1st Round but you can't just take that as 'mission accomplished' like Bush did in Iraq. Those players can be individually awesome but the defense still sucks as a unit. Pedigrees and draft position be damned. Production and wins is all that matters....but to ask a former Carr zealot to realize that may be asking a little much. After all, for some of you all you do is parrot what the team says and think you are somehow smart or insightful. Wrong. You probably need to grow a pair and realize that its ok to have opinions and its ok to not agree with the team. you were one of the biggest carr homers of all time so please excuse me if i discount your credibility and objectivity. i have forgotten more about football than you have ever known.

you have no credibility imho on anything texans-related and that is based on history not hyperbole or prejudice.
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Old 05-03-2008   #404
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Default Re: Duane Brown: First Round pick of the Texans

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post

oh and you know 'certainly he was highest rated player for the Chargers'. Oh really? i have read the same report as you but that doesnt make it fact.
Wow, this is an astonishingly stupid comment. Let's review...

The draft tracker at nfl.com says the San Diego Chargers drafted at #27. Norv Turner [on not drafting a tackle in the first round]: “We came up one pick short.”

27-1 = 26.

Hmm, who got drafted at 26?

OH MY IT'S DUANE BROWN! To the Houston Texans!
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Old 05-03-2008   #405
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Default Re: Duane Brown: First Round pick of the Texans

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Originally Posted by Tailgate View Post
FINALLY... some real expert opinions on Brown!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Jpb-YkYO1I
they made more sense than Todd McShay.
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Old 05-03-2008   #406
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Default Re: Duane Brown: First Round pick of the Texans

"Guys, I read the same report but that doesn't make it fact! Pay no attention to what Norv Turner says."

Quote:
Unable to get their right tackle of the future in last weekend's NFL Draft, the Chargers got a backup for now.

They agreed to terms today with veteran L.J. Shelton on a two-year deal, addressing their depth problem at the position.

Shelton started 16 games at right tackle for the Dolphins in 2007. In 10 NFL seasons, he has started 125 games. He has played guard as well.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports...1-shelton.html
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Old 05-03-2008   #407
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Default Re: Duane Brown: First Round pick of the Texans

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
so in the previous two drafts we get 4 quality defenders and you act like we have devoted our life to defense in Texans land draft-wise. for schaub alone we spent two 2nd Rounders....but that doesnt support your argument now does it?

we have gone defense in the 1st Round but you can't just take that as 'mission accomplished' like Bush did in Iraq. Those players can be individually awesome but the defense still sucks as a unit. Pedigrees and draft position be damned. Production and wins is all that matters....but to ask a former Carr zealot to realize that may be asking a little much.

you have no credibility imho on anything texans. you are still blaming capers for all the ills years later. turn page.

Why even converse with you... I'm not sure, because you have no interest in truth, only in defending your angrily entrenched position. But, here goes anyway:

1. Regarding my defense of Carr 3 years ago. I believed it made sense for the team to see if he could respond to quality coaching. I was never a Carr homer, though I was quite optimistic about his future in 2004.

2. I never argued that our defense was good last year or any other time. I simply stated that the evidence the past three off-seasons clearly shows that this organization realizes the significance of defense and hasn't been derilect in its efforts to build ours. I'm not sure how trading for Schaub defeats that argument. We aren't trying to build the 2000 Baltimore Ravens after all, nor was I arguing that we were.

3. You were the one complaining that we didn't take a defensive player in round 1 this year, even though we went defense in rounds 3-6. It was you that used the Duane Brown pick to complain that the organization doesn't get the significance of the defense. So, you were actually doing what you are errantly accusing me of. Personally, I think using 4 of the team's first 6 draft picks on the defensive side of the ball illustrates that the team does realize the defense needs help... For some reason, you do not. Could you possibly explain why that would be?
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Old 05-03-2008   #408
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Default Re: Duane Brown = Texans' First Round Choice

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
bong, do you really think i care what you or really anyone on this board thinks about me? i never have and i never will.

sorry that I aint one of the sheeple. never have been and never will be. you would think some of you would learn that its ok to criticize your team and its ok for others to criticize your team. you would think you would have learned that after the littany of errors this team has made in the past but every move was practically championed and praised by all of the sheeple until the whole outhouse went up in flames.

bong, your not a sheeple. you do have a legitiimate non-homer take and that is great. i have liked reading much of your stuff. just dont bash me because I am not on the 'Gibbs Is God' bandwagon before he even coaches one freaking down for us. and don't bash me for feeling they reached and panicked after the run on LTs in the early and mid 1st Round. i get 'shit on' with my posts? generally if people on this board disagree with me, that means I am right, so take that for what its worth.

how many Super Bowls has Gibbs been to without Elway? ZERO. Excuse me if I wait for him to 'Show Me' that he can make it work here. You would think based on some people's opinions of his system that defensive lines will part like Moses at the Red Sea and we will run through the playoffs like a hot knife through butter.

the same argument yall use on me about brown 'wait and see' is the same argument i use about gibbs. i aint crownin' his ass yet.
Wow, I just wish you would read over some of the garbage you spew from your finger tips. It's obvious that if somebody disagree's with you then "they don't get it" and "they are sheeple" forget it. You're an attention whore who will troll the ever loving piss out of a subject until all parties are just disgusted with even trying to talk to you. I'm glad I won't have to worry about your posts anymore because YOU are sheeple, and YOU are the one going along with all the jock sniffers at ESPN and NFL.com with your evaluation of the draft.

And I wouldn't even have a problem with your posting if you didn't act like such an uppity troll who knows more about football than the entirety of this board.

The bottom line is You don't know more about football than everybody, you aren't always right, and you troll more often than make valid points.

But since you don't care anyway you can just go to my ignore list.

But I like the pick more and more now that there are some posters who are giant trolls and are against it. Go Brown Go.
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Old 05-03-2008   #409
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Default Re: Duane Brown: First Round pick of the Texans

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
so in the previous two drafts we get 4 quality defenders and you act like we have devoted our life to defense in Texans land draft-wise. for schaub alone we spent two 2nd Rounders....but that doesnt support your argument now does it?

we have gone defense in the 1st Round but you can't just take that as 'mission accomplished' like Bush did in Iraq. Those players can be individually awesome but the defense still sucks as a unit. Pedigrees and draft position be damned. Production and wins is all that matters....but to ask a former Carr zealot to realize that may be asking a little much. After all, for some of you all you do is parrot what the team says and think you are somehow smart or insightful. Wrong. You probably need to grow a pair and realize that its ok to have opinions and its ok to not agree with the team. you were one of the biggest carr homers of all time so please excuse me if i discount your credibility and objectivity. i have forgotten more about football than you have ever known.

you have no credibility imho on anything texans-related and that is based on history not hyperbole or prejudice.

I'm not sure I see what is brave about what you do. Cynicism is a coward's defense mechanism. You, and fans like you, can't cope with dissapointment so you develop a cynical and hypercritical view because you lack the coping skills of a mature adult.

Sure, I tend to err on the optimistic side of things. You're damn right! I would hope so. I believe quite confidently that I am an objective fan. However, anyone with limited access to information will often display a bias when making his judgements known. How can one not? As for me, I'll gladly be known for giving the team whom I root for and who has given me moments of great joy the benefit of the doubt.

If that means that I'm not credible and I have no testicles, I guess I'll need to learn to wear such labels with honor.
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Old 05-03-2008   #410
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Default Re: Duane Brown: First Round pick of the Texans

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Originally Posted by Mailman View Post
Wow, this is an astonishingly stupid comment. Let's review...

The draft tracker at nfl.com says the San Diego Chargers drafted at #27. Norv Turner [on not drafting a tackle in the first round]: “We came up one pick short.”

27-1 = 26.

Hmm, who got drafted at 26?

OH MY IT'S DUANE BROWN! To the Houston Texans!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mailman View Post
"Guys, I read the same report but that doesn't make it fact! Pay no attention to what Norv Turner says."

Teams say a lot of things pre-draft that are not factual.

I don't see any reason for them to lie after the draft, especially since what they are saying isn't going to make the player they actually drafted feel real good.

Most teams, ours included, usually say good things about their pick.

"He's the player we targeted, really wanted, yada yada."

They don't usually say " we came up one pick short". JMHO though.

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Old 05-03-2008   #411
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Default Re: Duane Brown: First Round pick of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mailman View Post
Wow, this is an astonishingly stupid comment. Let's review...

The draft tracker at nfl.com says the San Diego Chargers drafted at #27. Norv Turner [on not drafting a tackle in the first round]: “We came up one pick short.”

27-1 = 26.

Hmm, who got drafted at 26?

OH MY IT'S DUANE BROWN! To the Houston Texans!
its really easy for Turner to say that after the fact. i read that report as well and mentioned that in my post...but that would require some reading comprehension.
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Old 05-03-2008   #412
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Default Re: Duane Brown: First Round pick of the Texans

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
the Texans didn't desparately need a tackle so bad they had to use the 1st Round irregardless of value. the OL wasn't the reason we didn't make the playoffs last year. quite the contrary. the porous defense was.
I respectfully disagree.

The reason that the defense was so "porous" was turnovers.

We were 2nd worse in the league in giveaways with 38. That's more than two extra possessions for the other guys each game - quite often on our side of the 50. Very few teams have such a bad-a$$ defense that they can afford to give the ball away twice a game. I know we don't.

We cut down the turnovers maybe our defense has a chance to do a better job.
What happened to the theory that our offense could move the chains and let our defense stay fresh. Giving the ball away twice a game sure didn't help execute that strategy.
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Old 05-03-2008   #413
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Default Re: Duane Brown: First Round pick of the Texans

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
its really easy for Turner to say that after the fact. i read that report as well and mentioned that in my post...but that would require some reading comprehension.
nobody tips their hand before or during the draft do they?
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Old 05-03-2008   #414
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Default Re: Duane Brown: First Round pick of the Texans

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Why even converse with you... I'm not sure, because you have no interest in truth, only in defending your angrily entrenched position. But, here goes anyway:

1. Regarding my defense of Carr 3 years ago. I believed it made sense for the team to see if he could respond to quality coaching. I was never a Carr homer, though I was quite optimistic about his future in 2004.

2. I never argued that our defense was good last year or any other time. I simply stated that the evidence the past three off-seasons clearly shows that this organization realizes the significance of defense and hasn't been derilect in its efforts to build ours. I'm not sure how trading for Schaub defeats that argument. We aren't trying to build the 2000 Baltimore Ravens after all, nor was I arguing that we were.

3. You were the one complaining that we didn't take a defensive player in round 1 this year, even though we went defense in rounds 3-6. It was you that used the Duane Brown pick to complain that the organization doesn't get the significance of the defense. So, you were actually doing what you are errantly accusing me of. Personally, I think using 4 of the team's first 6 draft picks on the defensive side of the ball illustrates that the team does realize the defense needs help... For some reason, you do not. Could you possibly explain why that would be?
1. it made no sense and anyone who wasn't homering could see that the guy was a total scrub and no amount of coddling and coaching would ever change his mechanics, intelligence, and work ethic. but the homers, such as yourself, blamed everything under the moon besides the problem because of blind allegiance to a player much less the team. this shows lack of objectivity.

2. our defense still sucks and may be worse this year. our defense needed more help than our offense IMHO.

3. my point is that other than Adibi, the defensive help we got will probably make little impact in 2008 outside of maybe Moulden as a nickel.
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Old 05-03-2008   #415
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Default Re: Duane Brown = Texans' First Round Choice

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Wow, I just wish you would read over some of the garbage you spew from your finger tips. It's obvious that if somebody disagree's with you then "they don't get it" and "they are sheeple" forget it. You're an attention whore who will troll the ever loving piss out of a subject until all parties are just disgusted with even trying to talk to you. I'm glad I won't have to worry about your posts anymore because YOU are sheeple, and YOU are the one going along with all the jock sniffers at ESPN and NFL.com with your evaluation of the draft.

And I wouldn't even have a problem with your posting if you didn't act like such an uppity troll who knows more about football than the entirety of this board.

The bottom line is You don't know more about football than everybody, you aren't always right, and you troll more often than make valid points.

But since you don't care anyway you can just go to my ignore list.

But I like the pick more and more now that there are some posters who are giant trolls and are against it. Go Brown Go.
translation: you don't agree with the Texans so you are ignored.

if the Texans had a better track record, I may give them the benefit of the doubt, but this pick smells like the Babin pick.
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Old 05-03-2008   #416
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Default Re: Duane Brown: First Round pick of the Texans

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its really easy for Turner to say that after the fact. i read that report as well and mentioned that in my post...but that would require some reading comprehension.
Yes, it really is easy to tell the truth after the fact. Your ego is making you cling to absurdities. You don't really think Turner just blew smoke up everyone's ass, do you? Why would he lie about it? What purpose would it serve? If the Chargers really weren't interested in drafting the last available grade A tackle in the first round, why did they immediately sign a free agent tackle?
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Old 05-03-2008   #417
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Default Re: Duane Brown: First Round pick of the Texans

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
I respectfully disagree.

The reason that the defense was so "porous" was turnovers.

We were 2nd worse in the league in giveaways with 38. That's more than two extra possessions for the other guys each game - quite often on our side of the 50. Very few teams have such a bad-a$$ defense that they can afford to give the ball away twice a game. I know we don't.

We cut down the turnovers maybe our defense has a chance to do a better job.
What happened to the theory that our offense could move the chains and let our defense stay fresh. Giving the ball away twice a game sure didn't help execute that strategy.
I respect your opinion and you make a good point in regards to takeaways putting our defense in a bad spot. I think our talent on defense has more to do with the poor performance but no doubt, the large amount of takeaways were a factor in it's bad stats and bad results.
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Old 05-03-2008   #418
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Default Re: Duane Brown: First Round pick of the Texans

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Originally Posted by Second Honeymoon View Post
its really easy for Turner to say that after the fact. i read that report as well and mentioned that in my post...but that would require some reading comprehension.
Either he meant it or he didn't.

What possible motivation would Turner have in saying such a thing untruthfully?
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Old 05-03-2008   #419
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Default Re: Duane Brown: First Round pick of the Texans

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Originally Posted by cuppacoffee View Post
Teams say a lot of things pre-draft that are not factual.


They don't usually say " we came up one pick short". JMHO though.

Exactly. It wasn't a secret to anyone that the Bolts were seeking a RT to bolster their solid line.
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Old 05-03-2008   #420
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Default Re: Duane Brown: First Round pick of the Texans

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Exactly. It wasn't a secret to anyone that the Bolts were seeking a RT to bolster their solid line.
What?! That's absolutely preposturous that somebody else would be targeting such a HUGE, MASSIVE, OH-MY-GOD-I-HAVE-TO-KILL-MYSELF-REACH. It's obvious that Norv Turner is lying just to make sure that certain trolls look bad on their message board.

Duane Brown (Much like tons of other players in all NFL drafts) appears to have been much more liked as an LT than most media people even knew about. What. A. Shocker.

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