Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-31-2007   #21
dickieb
Veteran
 
dickieb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Not in Texas anymore :(
Posts: 351
Rep Power: 148 dickieb is a quality contributor and well respecteddickieb is a quality contributor and well respecteddickieb is a quality contributor and well respecteddickieb is a quality contributor and well respecteddickieb is a quality contributor and well respecteddickieb is a quality contributor and well respecteddickieb is a quality contributor and well respecteddickieb is a quality contributor and well respecteddickieb is a quality contributor and well respecteddickieb is a quality contributor and well respecteddickieb is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I dont think we need an RB

I think it would be a mistake to get another RB through FA. I think we need to use our free agent pickups on the defensive side of the ball. We all know RB don't have a long expectancy in the NFL. I don't want someone else's used goods there. It makes more sense to upgrade your line and get RB's through the draft IMO. We could make a huge difference in our team by going after any or all of the following in free agency - a great CB, S, or OLB. We definately need depth in the secondary and Oline with all the injuries we had this year and question marks that are there concerning the injured players returns next year. (Oline is another area I prefer drafting players)
__________________
"I wanna win!" - Nacho Libre

Last edited by dickieb; 12-31-2007 at 03:29 PM.
dickieb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2007   #22
Grid
Hall of Fame
 
Grid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,299
Rep Power: 2272 Grid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I dont think we need an RB

Some people seem to have replied without reading my post.

My arguement wasnt that we dont need an RB, so much as "we dont need an RB to beat our divisional rivals..and beating our divisional rivals is paramount".

It doesnt matter if we have the wrost RB group in the division.. if we had the best RBs in the division we would still be struggling to win games against those run defenses.

Better to stick with our strengths and then improve upon those really KEY areas that will allow us to defeat them.. specifically protecting the QB so he can throw, improving our pass rush, and stuffing their run.
Grid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2008   #23
otisbean
All Pro
 
otisbean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 563
Rep Power: 5252 otisbean is a quality contributor and well respectedotisbean is a quality contributor and well respectedotisbean is a quality contributor and well respectedotisbean is a quality contributor and well respectedotisbean is a quality contributor and well respectedotisbean is a quality contributor and well respectedotisbean is a quality contributor and well respectedotisbean is a quality contributor and well respectedotisbean is a quality contributor and well respectedotisbean is a quality contributor and well respectedotisbean is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I dont think we need an RB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid View Post
Some people seem to have replied without reading my post.

My arguement wasnt that we dont need an RB, so much as "we dont need an RB to beat our divisional rivals..and beating our divisional rivals is paramount".

It doesnt matter if we have the wrost RB group in the division.. if we had the best RBs in the division we would still be struggling to win games against those run defenses.

Better to stick with our strengths and then improve upon those really KEY areas that will allow us to defeat them.. specifically protecting the QB so he can throw, improving our pass rush, and stuffing their run.
I get what you are saying, but if we had a better RB then we could keep Manning off the field and we could help prevent the Titans from pinning their ears back and getting after the QB. I don't think we need to draft one in the first round, but we need some help there. I like Walker. I feel like he will end up being a very good number 2 RB. I wish someone could get Dayne to quit eating and take training seriously. If he could drop 20 lbs his forty time would drop as well and he would be much more efffective. He is a good inside runner, but he can't get to the corner at all and this is somewhat limiting.
otisbean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2008   #24
HoustonFrog
Chitown Frog
 
HoustonFrog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chicago
Age: 44
Posts: 12,417
Rep Power: 32311 HoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respectedHoustonFrog is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I dont think we need an RB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid View Post
Some people seem to have replied without reading my post.

My arguement wasnt that we dont need an RB, so much as "we dont need an RB to beat our divisional rivals..and beating our divisional rivals is paramount".

It doesnt matter if we have the wrost RB group in the division.. if we had the best RBs in the division we would still be struggling to win games against those run defenses.


Better to stick with our strengths and then improve upon those really KEY areas that will allow us to defeat them.. specifically protecting the QB so he can throw, improving our pass rush, and stuffing their run.
See, this is what I'm not getting in your argument and what I responded to actually in my first post...we are 1-5 vs the division with the worst RBs..that seems like a good correlation. So why wouldn't an improved running game help?Their defenses aren't always going to be at the top just because of FA and injuries. Not only that, but as I pointed out, the NFC East has been pounding on each other for decades with running games and it has always been a top division. You can't make a blanket statement that we would still be struggling when we haven't seen the other side of the coin. As I said, people said we looked alright without AJ and then he came back and we were 10 times better. Better players give you more options and make the run defenses have to pause and respect the play fakes. You don't know what you could have had until you have seen it and we haven't seen a top RB.
__________________
Desperation is a stinky cologne. -Super Troopers
HoustonFrog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2008   #25
Grid
Hall of Fame
 
Grid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,299
Rep Power: 2272 Grid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I dont think we need an RB

Quote:
Originally Posted by otisbean View Post
I get what you are saying, but if we had a better RB then we could keep Manning off the field and we could help prevent the Titans from pinning their ears back and getting after the QB. I don't think we need to draft one in the first round, but we need some help there. I like Walker. I feel like he will end up being a very good number 2 RB. I wish someone could get Dayne to quit eating and take training seriously. If he could drop 20 lbs his forty time would drop as well and he would be much more efffective. He is a good inside runner, but he can't get to the corner at all and this is somewhat limiting.
And that is the best argument FOR a strong running game...keeping Manning off the field.

My reply would be that the Jaguars have the 2nd ranked running game in the league, and they lost twice to the Colts this season. The only teams that DID beat the Colts are the Patriots and Chargers (and Titans but they dont count). Both defenses have high sack totals..and a good amount of forced turnovers.

Now.. this isnt exactly a strong argument..cause the Colts really only have 2 losses for the season..and thats not a strong enough sampling to make a real valid point about what they are weak against. I could go back over the past few seasons and see if that gives a better idea..but I dont really think it is necessary.

Logic says that a strong running game would be effective against the Colts..as it would keep Manning off the field. Also, a strong pass rush and cornerbacks in order to force turnovers and get Manning back on the sidelines is an effective way of beating them.

My argument isnt that are running game is strong enough as it is.. my argument is that, while our running game COULD use improvement, I think we will get more "bang for our buck" if we focus alot more attention on improving our pass rush. A better pass rush will help us against the Colts, but it will also help us against the Jags and Titans alot more than a better rushing attack would.
Grid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2008   #26
Grid
Hall of Fame
 
Grid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,299
Rep Power: 2272 Grid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I dont think we need an RB

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonFrog View Post
See, this is what I'm not getting in your argument and what I responded to actually in my first post...we are 1-5 vs the division with the worst RBs..that seems like a good correlation. So why wouldn't an improved running game help?Their defenses aren't always going to be at the top just because of FA and injuries. Not only that, but as I pointed out, the NFC East has been pounding on each other for decades with running games and it has always been a top division. You can't make a blanket statement that we would still be struggling when we haven't seen the other side of the coin. As I said, people said we looked alright without AJ and then he came back and we were 10 times better. Better players give you more options and make the run defenses have to pause and respect the play fakes. You don't know what you could have had until you have seen it and we haven't seen a top RB.
I understand where you are coming from, and I dont entirely disagree. All im saying is that a superstar running back shouldnt be our top priority.. it really shouldnt even be in our top 5.. well...maybe as #5 behind Oline, LBs, Dline, and CBs.. but with our passing attack, and the way that Walker and Dayne have looked for us at the end of the season.. I dont think a better RB should take precedent over the MUCH more necessary needs that I listed above.

If we are going to beat our divisional rivals, we need to approach things in a different way, imo. Instead of increasing our defense against their strengths, we need to make our strengths stronger than theirs. I think that the 3 priorities I listed... if we could make great strides in those places.. we would not only be improving greatly upon the strengths of this team, but we would also be addressing alot of our weaknesses.

Sure, we arent focusing on those weaknesses that seem obvious.. but by increasing our overall "productivity"..it lessens our weaknesses. Is this just incredibly confusing?

Lemme give an example that we have all heard before. If you are weak in the defensive secondary, but pretty strong on the defensive line... you could increase the strength of your secondary and become a more balanced defense, or..you could further strengthen the defensive line, thereby increasing your ability to rush the passer and, in a roundabout way, improving your secondary.

I am saying that instead of improving those obvious weaknesses, lets increase our strengths.

If we have a better Oline, we will have better protection for Schaub which will give us a better passing attack. A better passing attack (as well as improved run blocking from our better Oline) makes our running game much more effective despite the fact that we are still using Walker and Dayne.

If we improve our run blocking, we force teams to pass in order to move the ball. If we also improve our pass rush, we make passing the ball more difficult. This forces QBs to make quicker decisions and increases the number of errant and poorly thrown passes..making it easier for our mediocre secondary to cover the receivers and increasing our amount of turnovers.
Grid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2008   #27
dickieb
Veteran
 
dickieb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Not in Texas anymore :(
Posts: 351
Rep Power: 148 dickieb is a quality contributor and well respecteddickieb is a quality contributor and well respecteddickieb is a quality contributor and well respecteddickieb is a quality contributor and well respecteddickieb is a quality contributor and well respecteddickieb is a quality contributor and well respecteddickieb is a quality contributor and well respecteddickieb is a quality contributor and well respecteddickieb is a quality contributor and well respecteddickieb is a quality contributor and well respecteddickieb is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I dont think we need an RB

Wasn't it Mike Ditka that used to say the best defense is a good offense?
__________________
"I wanna win!" - Nacho Libre
dickieb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2008   #28
kiwitexansfan
Give'm a taste
 
kiwitexansfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Age: 36
Posts: 9,197
Rep Power: 60180 kiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I dont think we need an RB

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungTexanFan View Post
. If Sanders hits the open market, I'm taking that chance on him. He probably won't, so we can just play like he won't for now. .
Bob Sanders signed a new contract with the Colts, unless you meant Dieon....
kiwitexansfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2008   #29
Grid
Hall of Fame
 
Grid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,299
Rep Power: 2272 Grid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I dont think we need an RB

Quote:
Originally Posted by dickieb View Post
Wasn't it Mike Ditka that used to say the best defense is a good offense?
If he did he must have been drunk at the time...or high from inhaling all that mustache wax.

Mike Ditka is best known for the 1985 Bears.. considered to be one of, if not THE, best Defense of all time.

And before Peyton Manning's Colts ever went to a Super Bowl, they had the best offense in the league. It wasnt until their defense caught up with their offense that they were able to beat the Patriots and make it to a Super Bowl.

Incidentally, the reason they kept losing to the Patriots in the playoffs was because the Patriot defense would always shut Manning down.

In the NFL.. the best defense is a good defense. The best offense is one that doesn't make mistakes.
Grid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2008   #30
badboy
Site Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Clear Lake
Posts: 22,759
Rep Power: 128525 badboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I dont think we need an RB

I want Jessica Simpson; doesn't mean she is available. I mean other than looks, $ and fame what does Romo have that I don't? Oh, yeah. He has Jessica. Point is what we want or even need is not what we get necessarily. At 18: Jake Long will be gone & he is more of a RT & prob doesn't fit ZBS. Ryan Clady & Sam Baker projected to be gone. Michael Oher may not come out. Gosder Cherilus may be there but is 320 and 5.14and that is reasonable for a big LT. Otah? 5.36 concerns me and do not bring up Spencer's size as we have no idea if he would have made it at LT based on less than two regular games.

RB? McFadden gone and Slaton does not fit. Stewart and Felix Jones may be there if they come out. Do you use a mid first for one of these when similar backs may be available later?

CB? More depth here if all juniors come out. But why not wait for someone like Charles Godfrey 4.38 6.0 208 from Iowa projected in 3rd or maybe 4th? Do you go hot and heavy for a good CB in Free Agency in March and save a draft selection?

Here is what I'd do based on above.

1st: If Ryan Clady available @ 18. He is the pick. If not, pray for a trade down that nets a 2nd or even a third. With lower first select RB Stewart or Felix Jones. If neither available reach for LT Chris Williams from Vanderbilt 6'6" 315 5.25 avg. Senior. Projected into 2nd round but not available where we would be if we pick up a 2nd in trade down. We have to resolved RB, LT and CB.

2nd: From trade down Mike McGlynn is only LT that might be there and if we go RB in first, he is worth a look. 6'5" 318 lbs 5.25. If no RB in 1st, maybe Chris Johnson from East Carolina. 5'11" 200lb senior that looked ok against #24 Boise (home of Ryan Clady and Ian Johnson). Stats: 223 yards rushing, 32 receiving and 153 on six kick returns. Did I mention he has 4.27 speed? Unfortunately he may not be avail at our pick in 2nd.

3rd: If no trade, I'd go with whichever I did not get in first.ALex Boone at LT is tempting.

What I think Texans will do.

Free Agency:sign a lower rated and cheaper CB.

1st Left Tackle
3rd as in no trade RB
__________________
I want to be able to recognize the difference between a "want" and a "need" and then I want to be satisfied with getting a need
badboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2008   #31
Dallas_Texan
Veteran
 
Dallas_Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 35
Posts: 365
Rep Power: 25 Dallas_Texan is a Legendary performerDallas_Texan is a Legendary performerDallas_Texan is a Legendary performerDallas_Texan is a Legendary performerDallas_Texan is a Legendary performerDallas_Texan is a Legendary performerDallas_Texan is a Legendary performerDallas_Texan is a Legendary performerDallas_Texan is a Legendary performerDallas_Texan is a Legendary performerDallas_Texan is a Legendary performer
Default Re: Why I dont think we need an RB

Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyTExan View Post
Just think if we had a Jones-Drew type back. We need a monster running back, especially for this offensive scheme. Hopefully Taylor is "that dude".

I'd like to see depth chart wise:
Taylor or drafted stud
Walker
Dayne


Edit: has anyone noticed how good Walker's vison is on the field?
True, but we if we had a "Monster" O-line, we could make Taylor/Walker/Dayne look like last years Shaun Alexander. You need the line to open the holes, and you need the line to let the QB make his passes. You NEED a great O-line. Pick up Fargas if we need another RB, and platoon them with a Great Oline. That's what we need. I totally agree with this post. The problem is what is available? Faneca is old. Flozell will be franchised. We need to draft an LT in the first, and pray White can step up as the C of the future. Brisel is looking like he could be a beast at LG, and Winston is set. If Spencer can make a come back we could have:

1st round pick - Pitts/Spencer - White/McKinney - Brisel/Weary - Winston

That would be a great young O-line for now, but I would still like to see us draft a Center with our 2nd round pick in 2009. By doing this we can still pick up a Fargas, a big talent CB, and big talent SLB in FA. That along with a FS in the 3rd round would be one heck of a young talented team.
Dallas_Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2008   #32
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
 
The Pencil Neck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Age: 52
Posts: 17,324
Rep Power: 202592 The Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I dont think we need an RB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas_Texan View Post
1st round pick - Pitts/Spencer - White/McKinney - Brisel/Weary - Winston
There's just too much that we don't know about the guys currently on our roster: Studdard, Butler, Frye, Jackson, and that center on the practice squad.

We're trying to make decisions about who to cut and who to keep and what the lineup is going to be but since we're not coaches and we aren't at the practices, we don't know how good these guys are or how good they can be. But the coaches were high on Jackson last preseason. Frye rolled his ankle in preseason and never got a chance to really work. Butler could be a real good pickup. I think we all expected good stuff from Studdard but when his opportunity came, they yanked him back out and put White in at guard. When his next opportunity came, he got hurt the play before.

As I've said before, I think we're set at guard and right tackle but the LT and the C scares me... and I'm most concerned about the C. It scared me seeing Hodgdon back in there at center at the end of the season.
__________________
Adoptee: #55 - Chris Myers.
The Pencil Neck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2008   #33
HJam72
Hall of Fame
 
HJam72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Over here.
Age: 41
Posts: 11,506
Rep Power: 68813 HJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respectedHJam72 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I dont think we need an RB

I know Dayne is slow, especially getting to the hole, but I think he could actually be pretty impressive if we actually had an O-line that was so dominant that he usually had a wide open hole at the line of scrimmage that stayed open long enough for him. When this is the case, he punishes tacklers past the LOS and I can see him wearing out a lot of Ds.

Having said that, what RB wouldn't look great with that kind of line?--IF you can get one.
__________________

HJam72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2008   #34
Grid
Hall of Fame
 
Grid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,299
Rep Power: 2272 Grid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Why I dont think we need an RB

Yah everything is dependent upon what is actually available to us. Im just pointing out what our focus should be on. If opportunities arise that let us address these needs...we need to jump on them and attack them with all the brute force our cap space will allow for.
Grid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger