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Old 12-12-2007   #61
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Default Re: PTI-Mario discussion

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Originally Posted by The1ApplePie View Post
I think having him all over the field like the Saints used him last year is the way to go. He's tough enough to be a feature back, but doesn't have the size to take the beating. In a system where the strech is used alot more, he could be a real weapon. Pretty much, Payton either lines him up in the I or gives it to him on a draw.

Ironically, he would have been a monster in the Texans system last year with all the dump-off passes that Carrbage was throwing. His strength is the outside run, yet he rarely gets to do it. I was at the Hou/NO game, and most of his carries were between the tackles. He flat outruns Karney on a lot of plays. A FB like Askew or Leonard could be a good tool to use with him.
That's just wishful thinking on your part.

If he cant get YAC for the Saints, who have a big-time downfield passing game, then how could he possibly get YAC as David Carr's option in the flats when there was absolutely no threat of Carr throwing deep?
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Old 12-13-2007   #62
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Default Re: PTI-Mario discussion

there's a good write up of mario on the nfl website (sorry if its already been posted) gooooooo mario
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Old 12-13-2007   #63
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Default Re: PTI-Mario discussion

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Eh, I never said Reggie Bush sucks because he doesnt play for the Texans. I said it doesnt make any sense to take a running back second overall and expect him to figure it out over a three year period. Running back is one of the easier positions to translate from NCAA to the pros. Bush rightly has substantially different expectations of him than Barber (a 4th round pick and an expected 3rd down back) and Westbrook (a 3rd rounder) had.
You never said it but I'm talking about in general. There are Texan fans now implying as if Bush is a garbage player, and people are implying all over the nation that he's a bust. That's not fair to him, he did have a impact on his team the first year.

Also I really don't look at expectations, because the reality is he is a small back it might take time for him to adjust and learn how to run between the tackles on a NFL level.

Expectations is what made Mario a bust year one. Because people expected him to blow up the NFL by day 1 because he was a #1 pick, when the reality of it is that it takes time usually for a DE to adjust and adapt to the NFL level.


Also...

I was watching the Around the Horn guys and they make me sick. ALL of them said the Texans made the wrong decision and that VY was the guy to take because we NEED star power...

I just had to get this off my chest, and maybe i'll go post this at a general NFL board so other fans can understand this... THE TEXANS DON'T NEED NO VINCE YOUNG TO SELL TICKETS. Also ever since when did Star Power win superbowls? Those guys just didn't want to admit they were wrong, I am happy the host mute all of them after that crap.

Last edited by Leahmic223; 12-13-2007 at 07:05 AM.
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Old 12-13-2007   #64
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Default Re: PTI-Mario discussion

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Well you MUST give 3 years to judge a player in the first round. A rookie contract is usually around that many years, and just because a RB doesn't have immediate success doesn't mean he can't have success later. The Smaller backs seem to take more time, the Dunn's, Westbrooks, Tiki's of the NFL. I think as a #2 overall pla yer Reggie needs to develop into a pro-bowl player and top notch offensive player by 2010.

That 3 year rule applies for every position
My point is that guys like Dunn, Tiki, & Westbrook would never, and should never go first overall.

My point, is that Reggie Bush should never have been considered a first overall running back.

Mainly because after three years, the running back has most likely suffered a career changing injury, and he won't be as good as he was.

Westbrook(and modern medical practices) may be changing that now, but up until '06, he had not done anything to warrant a #1 overall selection of a player like him(Bush... kinda, but Westbrook is more of a runner where Reggie is more of a reciever)

Sure, after three years Reggie may a top 10 running back, but if it took him that long to develop, he should not have been picked in the top ten.

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twelve coulmn inches of pure bull sh#T. You're better than metamucile there old hoss.

http://www.metamucil.com/our-products.shtml

The last guys to cross the Mario line on the disney sports channel will be Kipper and the college guys, and apperantly our friend thunder kiss. He is not a work out warrior. He was not Reggie White out of the box. The injured foot did mean something. A lot of folks on this board need a six pack of patience.
Vince Young was never an accutare passer. Never has been. And unless Chow can work him over....never will be. He is working on it. Whopped our A$$ for sure...but the five hunderd mark is more than just a trend. There are old QBs and Bold QBs , but there are no Old bold QBs in the NFl. Unless VY finds his mechanics the pack will catch him. Up to you to figgure out whether or not that "it" factor is worth fifty million. From my tree all due respect to thunder kiss and Mattress Mac...we dogded a big old bullet on that one.
You've got me twisted. I'm big on Mario, and I'm pleased that we drafted him. Vince Young being on another team in our division doesn't bother me. There are plenty of good QBs(not saying Vince is a good QB yet) on Good teams that get beat on a daily basis. He'll just be another.

The only reason I'm upset about Vince at all, is that someone looked at David Carr, and said, "We don't need a QB"

But since this organization realized within one season, that David isn't going to get it done, I'm fine, and pleased that they are workinig to remedy that.

I have no problem giving credit where credit is due. Peyton Manning is the best QB in the league. Tom Brady is second. Favre, Hasselback(sp), Palmer are amoung the best in the league.

I think Vince will eventually get there.
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Old 12-13-2007   #65
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Default Re: PTI-Mario discussion

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Originally Posted by GuerillaBlack View Post
Yeah and he has had the same line. I am sure Deuce would have gotten 100 yards, too, if he didn't get injured.
One of the problems I think the Saints have, is that they have this guy they're giving a lot of money to, and they have to figure out how to get him the ball.

What that does, is take the ball out of the hands of the playmakers who are making plays.

It's not uncommon for a guy like Duece to break a 15 or 25 yard run after two consecutive runs for minimum gains. But if you're taking him out of the game to put Reggie in the backfield, you loose that possibility.

Same thing with Joe Horn, Henderson & Copper. Guys who average over 12 yards a catch. But because you have to put the new millionaire(Reggie Bush) in the game, the probability of those guys making those plays goes down.

Just look at Colston. He's on the field, because he's earned his spot. He makes plays. Relatively a small number of touches for a lot of gain(TDs & Yards)

Reggie touches the ball between 15 & 20 times a game, and they consider it good, if he gets a first down.



Quote:
Originally Posted by The1ApplePie View Post
The body of work usually.
Reggie, VY, and Mario have all had a crap year and a good year. Hopefully the next year is a good one for all 3

We'll see when their contracts come up.

Considering what Mario had to work with... No push up the middle, No pass coverage by the LBs, Poor pass coverage from the secondary, a defense led by a rookie, new defensive scheme, new coaches for that scheme, the wrong players for that scheme, etc, etc... Mario had a damn good year.

Considering what Vince had to work with. A team that started what 2-5 or something like that. His best wide reciever became the #2 guy on another team. Heck, he might be a #3 guy now, I don't know. Poor protection from the offensive line, an offensive coordinator who wanted the other guy. I think he did pretty good.

Considering what Reggie had. Veteran QB, Veteran WR, Veteran RB, great protection from the offensive line. A coach with the imagination, and the gumption to do the things needed to get you involved. A winning record. A top ten running game, a top ten passing offense....

he should have done a lot better last year, considering where he was picked up in the draft.

Consider other players drafted later than he was, with more or less the same circumstances. Maurice Jones Drew, Joseph Addai, and Laurence Morony(sp).

I'm not saying he's a bust. I'm saying he hasn't had the one good year yet.
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Old 12-13-2007   #66
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Default Re: PTI-Mario discussion

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That's just wishful thinking on your part.

If he cant get YAC for the Saints, who have a big-time downfield passing game, then how could he possibly get YAC as David Carr's option in the flats when there was absolutely no threat of Carr throwing deep?
How many times did Lundy get a dump off with a wide open field in front of him and get caught from behind by a D-Lineman last year? Reggie would have gotten a lot of plays in space, where the man is money, reguardless how you feel about him.

The Saints line has been terrible this year. They were able to out and out dominate only the Falcons line this year (featuring the bust tastic Jamal Anderson).

Reggie gets knocked for being a decoy, but that was a big part of the Saints success last year. If even a draw was hinted at him, the entire D would come up.
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Old 12-13-2007   #67
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Default Re: PTI-Mario discussion

Just want to say that hype is a dangerous thing, and can get a guy in trouble.

Reggie and AD playing through career threatining injuries because of the preassure put on them. Mario doing the same last year.
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Old 12-13-2007   #68
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Default Re: PTI-Mario discussion

With more film of RB in NFL games, it's apparent that they (defensive coordinator's) found a way to neutralize him and his "decoy" status, thus making him less effective. He was never the "featured back" in college with Lenwhale carrying the load. It is evident in his production this year.

With a short amount of game film, Lundy had the same problem. Our RB guarantee found the smooth going at first, but then the door closed as they figured out his game.

Vy is trying to prove the "naysayer's" he can pass in this league and has abandoned his running abilities, for the most part. His td/int record this year speaks for the play of NFL DB vs. the college ranks.

I hope all three have great/good careers in the NFL (or selling Fuller Brushes), I don't care! Just, not against my team and Mario get's to smoke one or both, each year or every four.
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Old 12-13-2007   #69
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Default Re: PTI-Mario discussion

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Originally Posted by Xetuoh1836 View Post
With more film of RB in NFL games, it's apparent that they (defensive coordinator's) found a way to neutralize him and his "decoy" status, thus making him less effective. He was never the "featured back" in college with Lenwhale carrying the load. It is evident in his production this year.

With a short amount of game film, Lundy had the same problem. Our RB guarantee found the smooth going at first, but then the door closed as they figured out his game.

Vy is trying to prove the "naysayer's" he can pass in this league and has abandoned his running abilities, for the most part. His td/int record this year speaks for the play of NFL DB vs. the college ranks.

I hope all three have great/good careers in the NFL (or selling Fuller Brushes), I don't care! Just, not against my team and Mario get's to smoke one or both, each year or every four.
People are figuring out there is no Decoy. First year hype that got in coordinators minds.IMO what happened was the offense last year was run through Brees and Deuce Running hard, RB did a good job complimenting what was going on. This year Deuce goes down, Payton tried to run the Offense through Bush and Brees. People weren't nearly afraid after last year figuring out it was hype and he's pretty easy to neutralize.
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Old 12-13-2007   #70
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Default Re: PTI-Mario discussion

i missed part of it, but i don't remember any talk of mario on Inside the NFL....

i didn't like how they combined the texans and cowboys highlights...
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Old 12-13-2007   #71
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Default Re: PTI-Mario discussion

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Originally Posted by The1ApplePie View Post
The body of work usually.
Reggie, VY, and Mario have all had a crap year and a good year. Hopefully the next year is a good one for all 3
I disagree.

Vince Young has had two marginal years. Look back at the Titans wins - yes, he lead them to a few victories but he had a heck of a lot of help. His numbers were pretty poor overall.

Bush has had two marginal years as well. Even in his rookie season, he failed to consistenctly make an impact. He had one good game - late in the season.

Mario had had one marginal year and one good (maybe great) season.
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Old 12-13-2007   #72
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Default Re: PTI-Mario discussion

Reggie Bush is an aweful expensive:
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Old 12-13-2007   #73
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Default Re: PTI-Mario discussion

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
My point is that guys like Dunn, Tiki, & Westbrook would never, and should never go first overall.

My point, is that Reggie Bush should never have been considered a first overall running back.

Mainly because after three years, the running back has most likely suffered a career changing injury, and he won't be as good as he was.

Westbrook(and modern medical practices) may be changing that now, but up until '06, he had not done anything to warrant a #1 overall selection of a player like him(Bush... kinda, but Westbrook is more of a runner where Reggie is more of a reciever)

Sure, after three years Reggie may a top 10 running back, but if it took him that long to develop, he should not have been picked in the top ten.
I see what you are saying. But Westbrook is playing pretty good right now.
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Old 12-13-2007   #74
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Default Re: PTI-Mario discussion

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How many times did Lundy get a dump off with a wide open field in front of him and get caught from behind by a D-Lineman last year? Reggie would have gotten a lot of plays in space, where the man is money, reguardless how you feel about him.

The Saints line has been terrible this year. They were able to out and out dominate only the Falcons line this year (featuring the bust tastic Jamal Anderson).

Reggie gets knocked for being a decoy, but that was a big part of the Saints success last year. If even a draw was hinted at him, the entire D would come up.
The Saints have attempted the most passes in the NFL (520), & given up the least sacks (11). That doesnt sound too terrible.
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Old 12-13-2007   #75
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Default Re: PTI-Mario discussion

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They were able to out and out dominate only the Falcons line this year (featuring the bust tastic Jamal Anderson).
The Saints have average 4 yds per carry against the Colts defense, the Jags, Falcons (twice), & the Bucs this year.
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Old 12-13-2007   #76
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Default Re: PTI-Mario discussion

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The Saints have attempted the most passes in the NFL (520), & given up the least sacks (11). That doesnt sound too terrible.
You realize there is a difference between run blocking and pass blocking right?
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Old 12-13-2007   #77
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Default Re: PTI-Mario discussion

The Around the Horn morons sold when asked if Houston drafted the right player after all. They all basically said, "They could have had Vince Young."
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Old 12-13-2007   #78
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Default Re: PTI-Mario discussion

See how good a conversation you guys can have when you think objectively about all three guys. It's really a beautiful thing. This board could become real popular if it continues.
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