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Old 12-12-2007   #301
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
I still contend that coaching screwed up some pretty decent prospects during the C&C years. Casserly made some reasonable picks, as you pointed out. However, he did two very critical things wrong. First, he overpaid players by a large margin. Todd Wade, Robaire Smith, Morlon Greenwood, etc. Second, when he screwed up a deal, it wasn't by a little. The Buchanon deal was incompetent, by any measure. The Babin deal was a debacle. Even if Babin had gone to Pro Bowls here, he wouldn't have lived up to the cost of three picks on a developing team.

Casserly has a seat at the head of the table for who screwed this team up, but that case is sometimes slightly overstated by the message board fans.
Can't argue with any of that.
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Old 12-12-2007   #302
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
It was only a seventh rounder but the guy has found himself apparently.

http://www.nfl.com/players/profile?id=00-0021332
Indeed. White and Gaffney are two prime examples of players drafted by CC who the coaching staff couldn't get to work out in Houston. Gaffney is now making match winning catches for the best team in NFL history and White is putting up the same kind of numbers as Mario.

Casserly made some huge mistakes, but this assumption that he had an inverse Midas touch (everything he touches turn to s...) simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

No one had any trouble pointing the finger at Casserly when it looked like MW was a bust, but now he's putting in good displays people are trying to re-write history.
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Old 12-12-2007   #303
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Originally Posted by run-david-run View Post
Just based on the fact the Mario, along with most every other player we drafted that year, has turned out to be a good/great player, I'm going to assume CC was nowhere near the draft room. Check past draft history for examples/depression.
I know that CC made mistakes, can name me a GM that has not made any mistakes? Some of you guys are just looking for an excuse to bad mouth anybody, and I mean anybody. You got to stop being so darn negative and need to learn to enjoy life.
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Old 12-12-2007   #304
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Originally Posted by Specnatz View Post
OK so he did manage to pick two guys worth a crap, congratulations out of 5 years of picking plauers you got two right, when do you want your F'n parade down S. Bartel Dr? CC and the screw up draft factory did nothing to help this team move out of expansion mode.

Let's see:

Gaffney
C. Pitts
Fred Weary
DFaggins (6th round)
AJohnson
Dom. Davis (4th round)
DRobinson
Travis Johnson
Mario
D.Ryans
Winston
CSpencer
ODaniels (4th round)
Jerome Mathis (4th round)

those are some good picks off the top of my head. One can criticize Casserly without using hyperbole. It just makes you look ignorant.

Reality is that Casserly had a very successful draft working with a good head coach (Kubiak). However, he and Capers were unable to find any success together- moves like the one for Babin and Buchanan were attempts to get the guy that Capers wanted. Personally, I think their communication and understand of one another was part of the problem. Furthermore, I don't think Casserly comprehended the 3-4 defense.
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Old 12-12-2007   #305
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Default Re: Mario Williams

To get this discussion back on track....

I Mario Williams

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Old 12-12-2007   #306
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Default Re: Mario Williams

I am sorry I did not put the sarcsm smiley there, I figured the whole parade might be a give away.

Yeas, I know CC picked more than just two guys who did actually play decent and were not total suckage. But my premis still stands that he did more harm than he did good. I will not include anyone but Daniels from the 2006 draft because he was a lame duck GM.

Now one name I noticed people listing is Travis Johnson, he has gotten called a bost more often than I could possibly count and now he is listed as a good player casserly picked? WTF is up with that.

Murphy you listed Faggins? Do you want anyone to take you seriously?
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Old 12-12-2007   #307
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Originally Posted by Specnatz View Post
Where is Vinny, Second honeymoon and Apple and a few others that would not say anything nice about his play where are they now.

I defended him a few times and got plastered yet when he has a good game those same individuals who trash him when he has some bad plays are no where to be seen.

If you are going to trash any player who has a bad game, when he has a good game you need to suck it up and say he played well. That is for any player. Be objective.




P.S. Dream i know the titans won but put that in your pipe and smoke it or stick it I could careless which.
I donno why you would lump me in with pure haters other than the fact that you dog me to your buddies since you are pretty vocal about not liking me (eh, word travels fast). I just post what I see and I don't tell you guys what you want to hear....you don't like that but hey, there isn't any fun in objective observation. I haven't been around much lately but when he has played well I've commented on it. Heck, I got behind the pick early on and was told I wasn't credible...so I stopped posting at HPF. When I post my football observations they are real and I don't sugar coat them and will call a spade a spade. When Mario played poorly early on I said so....but then again, I just comment on what I see and Mario playing well is very important to our sucess. Have you noticed that we lose alot when our top guys don't play well? Mario had a great game and we beat the Bucs last week...two plus two stuff.
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Old 12-12-2007   #308
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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I donno why you would lump me in with pure haters other than the fact that you dog me to your buddies since you are pretty vocal about not liking me (eh, word travels fast). I just post what I see and I don't tell you guys what you want to hear....you don't like that but hey, there isn't any fun in objective observation. I haven't been around much lately but when he has played well I've commented on it. Heck, I got behind the pick early on and was told I wasn't credible...so I stopped posting at HPF. When I post my football observations they are real and I don't sugar coat them and will call a spade a spade. When Mario played poorly early on I said so....but then again, I just comment on what I see and Mario playing well is very important to our sucess. Have you noticed that we lose alot when our top guys don't play well? Mario had a great game and we beat the Bucs last week...two plus two stuff.
My exact quote was we do not get along because of my comment regarding VY fans. In fact I have never cussed you or said anything really hateful. In fact I also said I respect your opinion in regards to a lot of football discussions, but some people when they talk forget to say everything and only ad what they want to cause issues on a board. Not sure whom you have been talking to but all you have to do is ask me and I would be honest.

You have trashed Mario very bad and when Kubiak said he was the most consistant defensive lineman you trashed that comment as well. I never said any of the critism was not deserved, but it was like he was singled out. Weaver has been the worst defensive player on the team but it was all Marios fault, at least that is how it appeared to me.

I stand by my comment about calling those that have bashed him out. Now granted, I guess in hindsight, I should have not lumped you in with true haters and that may have appeared as I was calling you a true hater which I did not mean to do.
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Old 12-12-2007   #309
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Originally Posted by Specnatz View Post
My exact quote was we do not get along because of my comment regarding VY fans. In fact I have never cussed you or said anything really hateful. In fact I also said I respect your opinion in regards to a lot of football discussions, but some people when they talk forget to say everything and only ad what they want to cause issues on a board. Not sure whom you have been talking to but all you have to do is ask me and I would be honest.

You have trashed Mario very bad and when Kubiak said he was the most consistant defensive lineman you trashed that comment as well. I never said any of the critism was not deserved, but it was like he was singled out. Weaver has been the worst defensive player on the team but it was all Marios fault, at least that is how it appeared to me.

I stand by my comment about calling those that have bashed him out. Now granted, I guess in hindsight, I should have not lumped you in with true haters and that may have appeared as I was calling you a true hater which I did not mean to do.
I’ve heard what you have said about me. I told you I didn’t like you calling me a jock sniffer and I told you what I thought of you privately. Since you have an axe to grind with me just leave me out of your posts and I'll do the same for you.
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Old 12-12-2007   #310
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Iíve heard what you have said about me. I told you I didnít like you calling me a jock sniffer and I told you what I thought of you privately. Since you have an axe to grind with me just leave me out of your posts and I'll do the same for you.
I never called you a jock sniffer, EVER. When I used the term jocksniffer it was in regards to certain VY fans who thinks he walks on water and was referring to the people here in Austin. I tried to explain that to you. You have for the most part been objective about VY, I know you respect his game and I complimented you on that. As far as axe to grind, nope not at all. Not with anyone.
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Old 12-12-2007   #311
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Originally Posted by El cabezon View Post
I know that CC made mistakes, can name me a GM that has not made any mistakes? Some of you guys are just looking for an excuse to bad mouth anybody, and I mean anybody. You got to stop being so darn negative and need to learn to enjoy life.
He was fired for a reason. GM is a position with very low turnover, when someone gets the can, its because they did a bad job for an extended period of time. Everyone is going to find some diamonds in the rough and going to draft some high round busts. However, CC got almost nothing from the 2nd and 3rd round picks. 5 years into our existance, about 2/3 of our draft picks were no longer on the team. That is inexcusable and a direct reflection of the coaching staff and GM, as a result they have been replaced. Its pretty simple.

In regards to Mario: why would you let a person who is about to be fired for a history of bad decisions make the biggest decision in your franchise's history? I'm sure he had input, but there is no way that the final decision came down to him.
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Old 12-12-2007   #312
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Originally Posted by Specnatz View Post
I never called you a jock sniffer, EVER. When I used the term jocksniffer it was in regards to certain VY fans who thinks he walks on water and was referring to the people here in Austin. I tried to explain that to you. You have for the most part been objective about VY, I know you respect his game and I complimented you on that. As far as axe to grind, nope not at all. Not with anyone.
But he does!!! He does!!!!

************************************************** *

I've supported Mario from the beginning BUT, he has deserved criticism and harsh criticism - at times. He played well at the beginning of the season, and has played well the last couple of games. In between those games he disappeared for a little while.
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Old 12-12-2007   #313
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
But he does!!! He does!!!!

************************************************** *

I've supported Mario from the beginning BUT, he has deserved criticism and harsh criticism - at times. He played well at the beginning of the season, and has played well the last couple of games. In between those games he disappeared for a little while.
That critism was fine, heck i have critism for some of his play, that is not what I was referring to. It was he does nothing right and the total lambasting him saying the prise Kubiak gave him by saying he was the most consistant player along the line was not warrented when everything showed that priase was. Now that does not mean he did not need to improve.

Okoye has disapeared since about week 9, TJ the most inconsistant player and Weaver is non-exsistant. I guess you could say Weaver is the most consistant because he plays terrible every week.
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Old 12-12-2007   #314
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Originally Posted by Specnatz View Post
That critism was fine, heck i have critism for some of his play, that is not what I was referring to. It was he does nothing right and the total lambasting him saying the prise Kubiak gave him by saying he was the most consistant player along the line was not warrented when everything showed that priase was. Now that does not mean he did not need to improve.

Okoye has disapeared since about week 9, TJ the most inconsistant player and Weaver is non-exsistant. I guess you could say Weaver is the most consistant because he plays terrible every week.
Context... Context my man!!

Listen, I like Kubiak and I have supported Mario - but there were times where I had to roll my eyes about Kubes' comments. It was Kubiaks attempt to mitigate some of the negative pub surrounding Mario since the draft. And in doing so, I think he may have overcompensated.

I expected Okoye to dissappear. Not making excuses but rookies hit walls. I will say that I was impressed with how he came out of the gate, and it gives him a lot to build on in his second year.
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Old 12-12-2007   #315
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Originally Posted by Specnatz View Post
My exact quote was we do not get along because of my comment regarding VY fans. In fact I have never cussed you or said anything really hateful. In fact I also said I respect your opinion in regards to a lot of football discussions, but some people when they talk forget to say everything and only ad what they want to cause issues on a board. Not sure whom you have been talking to but all you have to do is ask me and I would be honest.

You have trashed Mario very bad and when Kubiak said he was the most consistant defensive lineman you trashed that comment as well. I never said any of the critism was not deserved, but it was like he was singled out. Weaver has been the worst defensive player on the team but it was all Marios fault, at least that is how it appeared to me.

I stand by my comment about calling those that have bashed him out. Now granted, I guess in hindsight, I should have not lumped you in with true haters and that may have appeared as I was calling you a true hater which I did not mean to do.
Because Kubes was FOS when he was talking about him earlier in the season and was basiically covering for his player because he was taking alot of heat. It is OK to see a player struggle and say.."the guy is horrible" and then appreciate it when he finally gets it. I mean it happens.

Quote:
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I know that CC made mistakes, can name me a GM that has not made any mistakes? Some of you guys are just looking for an excuse to bad mouth anybody, and I mean anybody. You got to stop being so darn negative and need to learn to enjoy life.
Dear Lord, do we really have to go through his drafts and trades again?
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Old 12-12-2007   #316
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Context... Context my man!!

Listen, I like Kubiak and I have supported Mario - but there were times where I had to roll my eyes about Kubes' comments.
It was Kubiaks attempt to mitigate some of the negative pub surrounding Mario since the draft. And in doing so, I think he may have overcompensated.

I expected Okoye to dissappear. Not making excuses but rookies hit walls. I will say that I was impressed with how he came out of the gate, and it gives him a lot to build on in his second year.
That I can understand.


Can he also please stop taping the podeum. Geez. I do not think he has ever rematched his press conferance.
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Last edited by Specnatz; 12-12-2007 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 12-12-2007   #317
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Let's see:

Gaffney
C. Pitts
Fred Weary
DFaggins (6th round)
AJohnson
Dom. Davis (4th round)
DRobinson
Travis Johnson
Mario
D.Ryans
Winston
CSpencer
ODaniels (4th round)
Jerome Mathis (4th round)

those are some good picks off the top of my head. One can criticize Casserly without using hyperbole. It just makes you look ignorant.

Reality is that Casserly had a very successful draft working with a good head coach (Kubiak). However, he and Capers were unable to find any success together- moves like the one for Babin and Buchanan were attempts to get the guy that Capers wanted. Personally, I think their communication and understand of one another was part of the problem. Furthermore, I don't think Casserly comprehended the 3-4 defense.
Really, you going to stick with all those guys as legit "good" NFL players? Casserly was a horrible GM that set us back with picks like Ragone. Its funny that he is in this thread because wasn't the rumor that he wanted to announce that Bush was our pick but Reeves had to rein him in so as not to ruin trade value, etc.?How good can a guy be when we have to hire a GM babysitter for him?
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Old 12-12-2007   #318
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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I donno why you would lump me in with pure haters other than the fact that you dog me to your buddies since you are pretty vocal about not liking me (eh, word travels fast). I just post what I see and I don't tell you guys what you want to hear....you don't like that but hey, there isn't any fun in objective observation. I haven't been around much lately but when he has played well I've commented on it. Heck, I got behind the pick early on and was told I wasn't credible...so I stopped posting at HPF. When I post my football observations they are real and I don't sugar coat them and will call a spade a spade. When Mario played poorly early on I said so....but then again, I just comment on what I see and Mario playing well is very important to our sucess. Have you noticed that we lose alot when our top guys don't play well? Mario had a great game and we beat the Bucs last week...two plus two stuff.
i have no problem with alot of the stuff you said, but you did go through a phase a couple of weeks back where you used to trash mario just because a team would run to his side... it seemed hyper-critical
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Old 12-12-2007   #319
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Originally Posted by Maddict5 View Post
i have no problem with alot of the stuff you said, but you did go through a phase a couple of weeks back where you used to trash mario just because a team would run to his side... it seemed hyper-critical
I think "hyper-critical" is a bit of an overstatement. I didn't post much...and most of it centered on my being disappointed in his play. I never called him a bust or droned on and on about him being the wrong pick. I never waxed on and on about how we should have taken Young or anyone else....just made a few comments about how I was really dissapointed in his play at times when I thought we needed our elite players to pick it up a notch. Hell, even Kubiak said as much last week when he stated that he had a talk with his better players stepping up their games in order for this team to improve. In case you haven't noticed, we win games when our elite players play like elite players. When they don't, we tend to lose. Perhaps you just are more ok with losing than I am or you just haven't connected those dots.
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Old 12-12-2007   #320
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
I've supported Mario from the beginning BUT, he has deserved criticism and harsh criticism - at times. He played well at the beginning of the season, and has played well the last couple of games. In between those games he disappeared for a little while.
This is my take, as well. I was on board with picking Mario the night before the 2006 draft, as evidenced in the board's history. Although I tended to be a D'Brick or AJ Hawk fan back then, I was cool with picking a defensive guy, too.

Since then, I've openly expressed being disappointed by certain aspects of his game. I understand the nature of the position is a 2-3 year learning curve, so I've always been patient about it, but losing tends to magnify the frustration. I care about our players and have high expectations for them. It's only human to be down from time to time, especially after six seasons of suck. But that doesn't mean I hate the pick or ever thought he was a 'bust'. Far from it.

I think Vinny comes from the same angle. No homer glasses but still hope for our hometown players, countered with realistic analysis of the product on the field. It doesn't require drinking koolaide or hatorade to be a good football fan.
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