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Old 12-11-2007   #281
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Originally Posted by Runner View Post
Excellent reasoning.
In my opinion MW was a CC pick, I really don't give a little rats behind what you or anyone esle thinks.
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Old 12-11-2007   #282
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Originally Posted by El cabezon View Post
In my opinion MW was a CC pick, I really don't give a little rats behind what you or anyone esle thinks.
Just based on the fact the Mario, along with most every other player we drafted that year, has turned out to be a good/great player, I'm going to assume CC was nowhere near the draft room. Check past draft history for examples/depression.
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Old 12-11-2007   #283
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Originally Posted by run-david-run View Post
Just based on the fact the Mario, along with most every other player we drafted that year, has turned out to be a good/great player, I'm going to assume CC was nowhere near the draft room. Check past draft history for examples/depression.
Didn't he drafted a cornerback while he was at Washington, I forgot his name but he now plays for Denver.
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Old 12-11-2007   #284
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Originally Posted by El cabezon View Post
In my opinion MW was a CC pick, I really don't give a little rats behind what you or anyone esle thinks.
Well said.


Intense anyway.
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Old 12-11-2007   #285
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Default Re: Mario Williams

Didn't Kubiak say that the offensive and defensive staffs held separate meetings, both to decide which player the team should draft first overall, and both sides came back Mario? Isn't it possible, and likely for that matter, that Kubiak and Casserly both wanted to choose Mario? Trying to say it was Casserly's more than Kubiak's choice and vice versa seems like an exercise in futility, IMO.
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Old 12-11-2007   #286
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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I always thought it was a Kubiak pick too. He had a lot of control when he got here. I always noticed Casserly getting bashed for Mario while Kubiak got praised for Demeco, Winston, Spencer, Daniels, etc.

But you're right - we don't know. Maybe they were all Casserly picks.
I will give credit where it is due, from what I recall Kubiak himself said daniels was a CC pick, I never heard him say that about any other guys drafted. I do not recall where I saw it at or the link I am sure it was posted on here more than once and maybe that is where I read it, not sure.

Ryans I thought was one of the Assistance. Geez I wish that kind of info could be had, like in baseball. A player is scouted and or signed (especially non-drafted guys) by a certain person it is always listed.
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Old 12-11-2007   #287
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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I will give credit where it is due, from what I recall Kubiak himself said daniels was a CC pick, I never heard him say that about any other guys drafted. I do not recall where I saw it at or the link I am sure it was posted on here more than once and maybe that is where I read it, not sure.

Ryans I thought was one of the Assistance. Geez I wish that kind of info could be had, like in baseball. A player is scouted and or signed (especially non-drafted guys) by a certain person it is always listed.
I think I did hear that Casserly recommended Daniels now that you mention it. It must have been in the press - a Kubiak quote.

DeMeco was highly touted by the linebackers coach, Johnny Holland.

I think Kubiak was responsible for pulling the trigger on them though. That's all good - listen to advice and make your decision.
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Old 12-11-2007   #288
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Default Re: Mario Williams

Maybe the real problem was Capers and our old DC.

Even so, I'm glad to have Rick Smith.
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Old 12-11-2007   #289
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Originally Posted by El cabezon View Post
Regardless of what you think this was Charley Casserly's pick.
I stand corrected. Or roll on the floor, laughing. Something like that.
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Old 12-11-2007   #290
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Default Re: Mario Williams

Lucky is standing on the floor and rolling.
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Old 12-11-2007   #291
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Default Re: Mario Williams

I don't buy into this "now Mario rocks he must have been a Kubiak pick" nonsense. Casserly was a below average GM, but not every move he made was a disaster and I don't see what's wrong with acknowledging his successes. For every P-Buc and Babin, there's a Johnson and a Robinson. The difference between a good GM and a bad is quite fine, and Rick Smith's success rate so far isn't monumentally better than CC's.

I guess it makes people feel comfortable thinking that every bad thing that happened to the Texans can be blamed on previous management and now that there's a new regime in town everything will be just fine. The world doesn't work that way, there are usually many contributing factors and shades of gray involved. But hey, whatever floats your boat.
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Old 12-11-2007   #292
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Default Re: Mario Williams

not that my opinion or theory means anything.

IMO, Casserly was kept through the draft because, why would a team release a lame duck GM that could possibly be picked up by another team as a "consultant" before the draft..It would make no sense. most could argue that it would be wrong, but say the Saints or Titans (who picked closely behind the Texans)picked him up for his "input".. that would be "corporate" suicide before a "strategy" session(aka draft), no matter what anyone would say, it would give an edge to the team that drafted just behind the Texans and also know what they were thinking about players and how they would rate them

Casserly might have had input as a lame duck GM , but I don't think much because Kubiak, and Smith and such were changing schemes(wouldn't suprise me if Sherman had alot of say)... and those coaches knew what they wanted


of course my opinion means not much
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Old 12-11-2007   #293
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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I don't buy into this "now Mario rocks he must have been a Kubiak pick" nonsense. Casserly was a below average GM, but not every move he made was a disaster and I don't see what's wrong with acknowledging his successes. For every P-Buc and Babin, there's a Johnson and a Robinson. The difference between a good GM and a bad is quite fine, and Rick Smith's success rate so far isn't monumentally better than CC's.

I guess it makes people feel comfortable thinking that every bad thing that happened to the Texans can be blamed on previous management and now that there's a new regime in town everything will be just fine. The world doesn't work that way, there are usually many contributing factors and shades of gray involved. But hey, whatever floats your boat.
OK so he did manage to pick two guys worth a crap, congratulations out of 5 years of picking plauers you got two right, when do you want your F'n parade down S. Bartel Dr? CC and the screw up draft factory did nothing to help this team move out of expansion mode.
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Old 12-11-2007   #294
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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OK so he did manage to pick two guys worth a crap, congratulations out of 5 years of picking plauers you got two right,
I disagree with this. You also have to consider those players who may have been good that the coaches messed up.
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Old 12-11-2007   #295
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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IMO, Casserly was kept through the draft because, why would a team release a lame duck GM that could possibly be picked up by another team as a "consultant" before the draft...
That's a good point. My thought was that Denver wouldn't let Rick Smith leave until after the draft (probably along similar rationale). Plus, Casserly had hired all the scouts and put the system in place. Kubiak probably needed help with with the process and Casserly had all of the contacts.

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Casserly might have had input as a lame duck GM , but I don't think much because Kubiak, and Smith and such were changing schemes(wouldn't suprise me if Sherman had alot of say)... and those coaches knew what they wanted
And that's pretty much the system Casserly had with Capers & staff. They would tell Casserly who they wanted, and Casserly would find a way to get them (remember the '03 draft littered with Senior Bowlers the Texans coached?). You can't blame Casserly for drafting Babin or trading for P-Bust. Just the cost it took to acquire them.
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Old 12-11-2007   #296
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Originally Posted by Specnatz View Post
OK so he did manage to pick two guys worth a crap, congratulations out of 5 years of picking plauers you got two right, when do you want your F'n parade down S. Bartel Dr? CC and the screw up draft factory did nothing to help this team move out of expansion mode.
Well off the top of my head, Gaffney, Pitts, Weary, White, D Davis, Johnson, Robinson, TJ, Mathis, Williams, Ryans, Daniels, Winston were all reasonable draft picks.

Look, I'm not especially defending Casserly - I'm glad he's gone, I just think people should fess up and admit he got a few right.
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Old 12-11-2007   #297
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Originally Posted by El cabezon View Post
In my opinion MW was a CC pick, I really don't give a little rats behind what you or anyone esle thinks.
Spoken like a true "Big Head"...lol

Kudos for standing your ground...even if it's shaky and prone to volcanic activity.
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Old 12-12-2007   #298
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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Well off the top of my head, Gaffney, Pitts, Weary, White, D Davis, Johnson, Robinson, TJ, Mathis, Williams, Ryans, Daniels, Winston were all reasonable draft picks.

Look, I'm not especially defending Casserly - I'm glad he's gone, I just think people should fess up and admit he got a few right.
I still contend that coaching screwed up some pretty decent prospects during the C&C years. Casserly made some reasonable picks, as you pointed out. However, he did two very critical things wrong. First, he overpaid players by a large margin. Todd Wade, Robaire Smith, Morlon Greenwood, etc. Second, when he screwed up a deal, it wasn't by a little. The Buchanon deal was incompetent, by any measure. The Babin deal was a debacle. Even if Babin had gone to Pro Bowls here, he wouldn't have lived up to the cost of three picks on a developing team.

Casserly has a seat at the head of the table for who screwed this team up, but that case is sometimes slightly overstated by the message board fans.
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Old 12-12-2007   #299
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Default Re: Mario Williams

If we're gonna hold somebody accountable for his mistakes, at least we should attempt to consider credit where it's due.
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Old 12-12-2007   #300
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Default Re: Mario Williams

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I think I did hear that Casserly recommended Daniels now that you mention it. It must have been in the press - a Kubiak quote.

DeMeco was highly touted by the linebackers coach, Johnny Holland.

I think Kubiak was responsible for pulling the trigger on them though. That's all good - listen to advice and make your decision.

agreed: You're never going to know for sure...my two cents...Charley Casserly was a "yes" guy...he hunted up the tallent, administered the scouts, told he coches their weaknesse and strengths, options and then pulled he trigger if the coach gave the ok.
He doesn't make waves. He's a team guy. There was a whole lot of reachin' the first five years...I do not believe it was all CC's doing as so many on the board believe. There were many fingers in that dung pie. We saw one last sunday...a 4-3 develppemental guy chosen by at the time a 3-4 team...makes you wonder. It was only a seventh rounder but the guy has found himself apparently.

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Several of my friend's observations on specific picks were also quite interesting. For example, on Jason Babin (LB 2004 first round), Seth Wand (OT 2003 third round) and Travis Johnson (DL 2005) -- all of whom are often cited as Casserly "bust" picks -- my friend disagreed and characterized each of them as decent picks, at least at this point in the evaluation process.

"Babin started and played reasonably well as a rookie, and then he has been injured while learning a new system in his second season," my friend noted. "He may not be a star, but he can still develop into a solid NFL starter."

As for Wand, my friend observed: "He's a small college player who has been pushed too fast at this level. That doesn't mean he won't eventually become at least an average NFL player."

With regard to Johnson, my friend pointed out that his inconsistent play this season is at least partly attributable to being thrown into a poorly-organized defensive unit that is just now adjusting to the change from the 4-3 to the 3-4 defense. "He's not Reggie White," my friend chuckled. "But it's way too early to characterize him as a bust."

So, why don't the Texans have enough good players? "Well, I haven't analyzed Casserly's free agent and trade transactions, so those certainly could have something to do with that," observed my friend. "But remember, quality depth is built up over time and the Texans are still a young franchise. Wand is a good example. He was a decent pick, but he is a project and thus, might not have been the best fit for a team such as the Texans that needs players who can play at the NFL-level as soon as possible."
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