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Old 12-05-2007   #21
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

In any case, we are now without 3 of our 5 "starting" Offensive Linemen. I say "starters" because while obviously McKinney and Weary were the best available options and actually pretty decent for us, Spencer is the big question mark. We only got to see him in what, 1.5 regular season games? That's not hardly enough time to crown him our franchise left tackle- but I do know we were all very excited at what we saw. He really needed to not get injured and have two years of experience under his belt...that was the most unfortunate injury we've had in a long time, imo.
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Old 12-05-2007   #22
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

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Originally Posted by TexanAddict View Post
The Texans are currently on pace to give up only 24 sacks this season, by far the fewest of any season since our inception. The current ranking for sacks allowed:

NO 11
CIN 16
CLE 16
DAL 16
NE 16
SD 16
ARI 17
GB 17
IND 17
HOU 18

Not saying there isn't more room for improvement, but it's not like the OL has been a total sieve as in years past. I personally think we have to get a young upgrade at center during this offseason, and if there is a LT available in the draft that is far better than the DBs and RBs available, then by all means, grab him. Just saying that the OL isn't looking as bad as it has in the past.
There's more to the O-line than sacks allowed. QB hits. QB hurries. Opening up running lanes for the RB and being able to get to the second level to continue to block for the RB. PENALTIES!! That's a big one. Salaam is the false start king, and Eric Winston has been getting a little sloppy as of late as well. Yes, our O-line is not as bad as it was once thought, but it could still use some improvement. In a perfect world, we'd take a LT in the 1st and a Center in the 3rd. We can find help in the secondary through FA. We won't be able to help the O-line much through the secondary. Most lineman who are not franchised and are allowed to go elsewhere suck. See Jordan Black.
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Old 12-06-2007   #23
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

I think it was said that spencer could have actually come back this year, but after being put on the pup list, the team has 3 weeks to decide. There will be too many young qaulity back availible, the texans will not drfat a back. Trust me, i really like peterson, but taylor is avg 5 ypc also, so its more the line than the back. I think a former bronco like portis who might get cut could end up here. Also, Jones,Fragas,Lewis,Bell, and Turner are all 27ish and will be free agents. Why draft a guy when you can have a guy 26-27 who u know can play now and be effective? The robinson injury worries me a little, but the texans actually have some options. What about trading the 1st for Hall and move bennett to safety. Having Bennett at safety, along with Hall and Robinson at corner, now the team would have to play nickel when 3 wides are on the the field. I think another target if the Texans dont get Hall would be going after Sanders from indy. What better way to hurt Indy than to take away their best defensive player? I also think they should cut weaver and sign Suggs or alex Brown after he's cut. Weaver cant get any pressure from the other side and it hurts the team.
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Old 12-06-2007   #24
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

I don't want to trade away any more first day pics for players. If anything I'd like us to trade down and get more draft picks and start building with solid players and then go after Skill positions after 2 more seasons. Either that, or just build our Offensive Line up with hot prospects the same as we're doing on the DL....then around the same time both Lines would be dominating.
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Old 12-06-2007   #25
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Also, Jones,Fragas,Lewis,Bell, and Turner are all 27ish and will be free agents. Why draft a guy when you can have a guy 26-27 who u know can play now and be effective?
Why pay a guy huge money who has high mileage, has been hurt alot, is one drug test from being suspended for 4 games to a year. OK Turner is none of those things, but I do not like paying the RB huge money, the shelf life is short on these guys.

There is a reason the NFL has trended away from taking RB with top 10 picks, a very big reason. Ask the Raiders if they got their moneys worth for LaMont Jordan. I doubt they say yes. And look who is starting for them, Fargus, a 4th rounder.
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Old 12-06-2007   #26
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

Yes, we all know that there is more to grading OL play than sacks alone. However, most people here see a sack or pressure on the QB and then immediately begin to scream, "Are we ever going to get a real LT?!?!" The problem is that these people aren't seeing that the pressure isn't always coming from the left side. Taking the Titans game, on the two plays that took Schaub out of the game, Vanden Bosch hit Schaub coming up the middle and Odom came from the right. I am NOT saying that LT could not be upgraded, but the weakest position on our OL is C more than LT. I believe an upgrade at center would go a long way to both improving the pressure up the middle in passing situations and opening holes for our running game. Especially considering (according to Football Outsiders) more than half our runs are up the middle or off guard. I do believe that the sacks and hits are down in a large part due to our QB play.

To summarize, I would like to see upgrades along the OL this offseason, but these must be achieved while also considering the other holes on our team, specifically RB and DB. If the best RB or DB available when we select in the 1st would be a greater improvement to the team than the best OL available, then I don't think the OL should be selected simply to say we took a OL in the first. That would have been like taking Joe Staley at #10 last year (like several folks wanted us to) when better players were available that could also fill major needs. And Staley hasn't exactly been worth the 1st SF traded to NE to get him.
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Old 12-06-2007   #27
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

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Why pay a guy huge money who has high mileage, has been hurt alot, is one drug test from being suspended for 4 games to a year. OK Turner is none of those things, but I do not like paying the RB huge money, the shelf life is short on these guys.

There is a reason the NFL has trended away from taking RB with top 10 picks, a very big reason. Ask the Raiders if they got their moneys worth for LaMont Jordan. I doubt they say yes. And look who is starting for them, Fargus, a 4th rounder.
Well considering that LaMont Jordan was a 2nd Round pick for the J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS. I'm sure the Raiders are ok with it. He signed a five-year deal worth $27.5 million at the age of 27. Or roughly 3 years younger and close to the same money we're paying Ahman.
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Old 12-06-2007   #28
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

Could this be the year they take a left tackle? Free Agency will tell us. If they free-agent a running back and a billy badass for the defensive secondary (i.e., answer their biggest needs in free agency the way they normally do), then left tackle could be the position they take in the draft.
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Old 12-06-2007   #29
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

We need to address the OL like we've done with the DL over the past few years. Lots of high picks until we get it right
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Old 12-06-2007   #30
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

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Having said that - these injuries are destroying our team and have all but ruined our season.
I really don't see how the injuries have destroyed the season. Most of the guys thave been injured/missed games or out of the season probably would have a tough time getting job somewhere else.

The AJ injury was big hit, but he hasn't done that much since he has been back (I am not saying it is his fault). Dunta's injury is also big hit. Chris Taylor, that is an unknown.

All the other guys, to some extent those injuries are irrelevant because those guys are not quality talent in the NFL.

In addition, the Texan victories at the beginning of the season came against very weak teams. I know KC turned it on for a few weeks, but that first week, they were horrible.

Bottom line is, the Texans lack players. If AJ and Dunta played the entire 2007 year, my estimation is the Texans would probably be a .500 team at best. Meaning they would have probably have beaten the Falcons or Titans at home earlier in the season, but that is it.

Which means, I wouldn't give the Texans organization a "get of jail free card" due to the injuries because most of those players probably wouldn't have made an impact on a winning season anyway.
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Old 12-06-2007   #31
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

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I really don't see how the injuries have destroyed the season. Most of the guys thave been injured/missed games or out of the season probably would have a tough time getting job somewhere else.
Can't agree with that as a fair statement--Schaub, AJ, Dunta certainly would be starting somewhere else. Weary, Mckinney, Green and Mathis would likely have starting jobs elsewhere. Putting that aside on who particularly would be starting you are missing an important point--it doesn't matter if Mckinney wouldn't have a starting job on another team if there is still a drop off when he goes down. That affects a team. Going from a 5 to a 1 on a ten scale is a loss just like going from a 10 to a 5.

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The AJ injury was big hit, but he hasn't done that much since he has been back (I am not saying it is his fault).
So 91 yards per game and 2 TD's in 3 games is not doing much? Funny, there are only 5 WR's with a higher ypg average than that and 6 averaging more TD's per game. What you meant to say was he had one pour outing this year against Cleveland--other than that he has been phenomenal this year.
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Old 12-06-2007   #32
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

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Can't agree with that as a fair statement--Schaub, AJ, Dunta certainly would be starting somewhere else. Weary, Mckinney, Green and Mathis would likely have starting jobs elsewhere. Putting that aside on who particularly would be starting you are missing an important point--it doesn't matter if Mckinney wouldn't have a starting job on another team if there is still a drop off when he goes down. That affects a team. Going from a 5 to a 1 on a ten scale is a loss just like going from a 10 to a 5.



So 91 yards per game and 2 TD's in 3 games is not doing much? Funny, there are only 5 WR's with a higher ypg average than that and 6 averaging more TD's per game. What you meant to say was he had one pour outing this year against Cleveland--other than that he has been phenomenal this year.
You stole my thunder on both points. First, we have certainly lost players that would either start - or play quality minutes for other teams. Secondly, and more importantly, an injury to a starter who is replaced by a guy who couldn't beat him out, is a downgrade.

I have to believe our offense is better if we have McKinney, Spencer, Schaub, Green and AJ on the field for the majority of a season vs Flannagan, Salaam, Sage, Dayne and Andre Davis. With the exception of the QB position, we have seen more of the replacements than the starters. We are not talking about one or two players, you are talking about almost half of the starters on offense who have been injured for a good part of the season.

Same on defense - I believe we have a much more solid backfield with Dunta, Earl, CC Brown and Bennett vs. Faggins/ Von Hutchins, Demps, Brown and Bennett.

You can argue a lot about personnell decisions and coaching moves this season, but there is no denying the toll injuries have had on this team. If we win just one game we've lost, we'd be .500 team. Even if we had half of the injuries we have had, this team could be just as well 7-5, than 5-7...if not better. Just my opinion.
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Old 12-06-2007   #33
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

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Can't agree with that as a fair statement--Schaub, AJ, Dunta certainly would be starting somewhere else. Weary, Mckinney, Green and Mathis would likely have starting jobs elsewhere. Putting that aside on who particularly would be starting you are missing an important point--it doesn't matter if Mckinney wouldn't have a starting job on another team if there is still a drop off when he goes down. That affects a team. Going from a 5 to a 1 on a ten scale is a loss just like going from a 10 to a 5.

So 91 yards per game and 2 TD's in 3 games is not doing much? Funny, there are only 5 WR's with a higher ypg average than that and 6 averaging more TD's per game. What you meant to say was he had one pour outing this year against Cleveland--other than that he has been phenomenal this year.
My point was improving the win column without any injuries.

AJ has been back for 3 straight games and the Texans are 1-3. At this point, I am not really concerned about stats.

As for Schaub, I don't know if him playing over Rosenfels really gives the Texans a better chance for victory.

As for Weary and McKinney, maybe they could start somewhere and I overstated that a bit. But I was attempting to demonstrate something that you didn't get from my post.

I will restate what I posted earlier that you removed when responding my post, which was the bigger point I was making and that is:

Quote:
I wouldn't give the Texans organization a "get of jail free card" due to the injuries because most of those players probably wouldn't have made an impact on a winning season anyway.
I just don't see that if these injuries hadn't happened to such the degree that they did, the Texans would be contending for a playoff spot at this time. Maybe the Texans would have 1 more victory this season, but that is it.
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What you meant to say was he had one pour outing this year against Cleveland--other than that he has been phenomenal this year.
AJ is having a great year. The Cleveland game was Kubiak's fault regarding AJ's performance though. Poor gameplan and play calling.

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Old 12-06-2007   #34
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

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Even if we had half of the injuries we have had, this team could be just as well 7-5, than 5-7...if not better. Just my opinion.
What games are you referring to?

Probably Atlanta and Tennesse at home.

I would give them one of those game without the big injury bug.

Sitting at 6-6 going into a tough 4 game stretch against playoff contenders.
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Old 12-06-2007   #35
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

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I just don't see that if these injuries hadn't happened to such the degree that they did, the Texans would be contending for a playoff spot at this time. Maybe the Texans would have 1 more victory this season, but that is it.
I just don't see how you can be so conclusive that it would be 1 more victory at most. 1-3 plays can totally reverse a game. AJ not fumbling a ball Davis does, Green getting the 4th down and 1 Dayne missed and chewing up the clock, etc. I can't predict it would be 2-3 more wins any more than you can say it would only be 1. We can say with a certainty though that they would have been better--quantifying how much just isn't possible.
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Old 12-06-2007   #36
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

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I just don't see how you can be so conclusive that it would be 1 more victory at most. 1-3 plays can totally reverse a game. AJ not fumbling a ball Davis does, Green getting the 4th down and 1 Dayne missed and chewing up the clock, etc. I can't predict it would be 2-3 more wins any more than you can say it would only be 1. We can say with a certainty though that they would have been better--quantifying how much just isn't possible.
Very objective critique. Yeah, I am definitely eye balling things here and totally see your perspective.

More or less, I am really trying to show a different perspective than, "geezzz, if we wouldn't haven't had all those injuries."

After watching 5 1/2 seasons of Texans football, I am really skeptical the Texans would really be that much better in the win column this year without the injuries.

This year, like many others, the Texans don't seem to have a quality win, other times don't show up for some games, or just pack it in at some point.

That seems to be an issue regardless of injuries.
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Old 12-06-2007   #37
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Default Re: Secondary, Left Tackle, & Running Back....

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This year, like many others, the Texans don't seem to have a quality win, other times don't show up for some games, or just pack it in at some point.

That seems to be an issue regardless of injuries.
They always seem to start the game good, then run out of gas.
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