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Old 10-23-2007   #41
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Default Re: Defense

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Originally Posted by Joe Texan View Post
I am not singling anyone out but there are a few of you who want to throw the team under the Bus. The Defense did all they could barring a coaches decision to give Dunta some help after the first pass on the last drive. Coaches lost the game plain and simple, the offense helped, the defense did all they could to keep us in it.
Exactly. when you limit them to just field goals with crappy position all game long, it is up to the offense to stop giving them the damn ball on a short field.

Oh was Dexter Wynn not active for the game?
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Old 10-23-2007   #42
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Default Re: Defense

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Originally Posted by Joe Texan View Post
I am not singling anyone out but there are a few of you who want to throw the team under the Bus. The Defense did all they could barring a coaches decision to give Dunta some help after the first pass on the last drive. Coaches lost the game plain and simple, the offense helped, the defense did all they could to keep us in it.
We've won with just defensive effort before. This just wasn't one of them.

I'm not throwing the D under a bus, but they had to prevent the Titans from scoring, not just touchdowns. Their kicker set an NFL record in our house, and I'm supposed to give them props?

Sorry, man, the entire team stunk it up and I'm not letting any of them off the hook. I'm tired of being a fanatic for a lost cause, and this is just words of frustration and aggravation on my part....obviously because I still care (damnit! )

I do agree, though, that the coaches should bear the brunt. The team did not seem to be prepared for this game, from both a mental and physical standpoint.
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Old 10-23-2007   #43
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Default Re: Defense

OK, whatever...38 points and 422 yards....the defense was out-freaking-standing. Yee-haw!!
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Old 10-23-2007   #44
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Default Re: Defense

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Originally Posted by Speedy View Post
OK, whatever...38 points and 422 yards....the defense was out-freaking-standing. Yee-haw!!
What do you expect when they get the ball within our 40 on 6 possessions? They're in field goal range the moment they get the ball. We're lucky more of those weren't TD's.
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Old 10-23-2007   #45
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Default Re: Defense

Look, there's no doubt that the offense left them in some bad positions for most of the day, but some of you are acting like Ten. got the ball in FG goal range all day, got a couple of yards, then kicked it and that's not what happened out there. Yeah, thanks to the offense, Ten. started 7 drives in Houston territory. And from those 7 drives, 5 FG's were kicked, 15 points. 112 yards were gained on those 7 possessions. No, you can't really throw that on the D. I get that.

BUT!!!

Their other 9 possessions were started on their own side of the field and Ten. picked up 23 points, 2 TD's and 3 FG's, and gave up 310 yards. Not one of those possessions were started from a turnover. 9 possessions, that's a little below the average amount for an entire game. 23 points, 310 yards and scoring on over half your possessions. That doesn't look all that great to me.

Short field, long field, it really didn't matter much because the Titans drove the ball and put points on the board either way. Yeah, they scored 5 times out of 7 possessions starting on the Houston side of the field and the majority of that blame goes to the offense, but they scored on 5 of 9 possessions from their side of the field as well, including both of their TD's.

Make excuses for them if you must, but it doesn't change the way they played in that game or the way they can't stop anybody on 3rd down (47% going into that game) all season long. And it doesn't change the fact they didn't get close enough to see the number on the jersey of Kerry freaking Collins!!!!

The Texans have given up 60 points off of turnovers this season, WORST in the NFL. I realize turnovers put a huge burden on the D, but they've got to make some stops, get some negative yardage with some sacks or something, back teams up out of FG range every once and a while, and they don't do it. Even with turnovers, you're not worst in the league giving up points if your defense is playing great.
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Old 10-23-2007   #46
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Default Re: Defense

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Originally Posted by Speedy View Post
Look, there's no doubt that the offense left them in some bad positions for most of the day, but some of you are acting like Ten. got the ball in FG goal range all day, got a couple of yards, then kicked it and that's not what happened out there. Yeah, thanks to the offense, Ten. started 7 drives in Houston territory. And from those 7 drives, 5 FG's were kicked, 15 points. 112 yards were gained on those 7 possessions. No, you can't really throw that on the D. I get that.

BUT!!!

Their other 9 possessions were started on their own side of the field and Ten. picked up 23 points, 2 TD's and 3 FG's, and gave up 310 yards. Not one of those possessions were started from a turnover. 9 possessions, that's a little below the average amount for an entire game. 23 points, 310 yards and scoring on over half your possessions. That doesn't look all that great to me.

Short field, long field, it really didn't matter much because the Titans drove the ball and put points on the board either way. Yeah, they scored 5 times out of 7 possessions starting on the Houston side of the field and the majority of that blame goes to the offense, but they scored on 5 of 9 possessions from their side of the field as well, including both of their TD's.

Make excuses for them if you must, but it doesn't change the way they played in that game or the way they can't stop anybody on 3rd down (47% going into that game) all season long. And it doesn't change the fact they didn't get close enough to see the number on the jersey of Kerry freaking Collins!!!!

The Texans have given up 60 points off of turnovers this season, WORST in the NFL. I realize turnovers put a huge burden on the D, but they've got to make some stops, get some negative yardage with some sacks or something, back teams up out of FG range every once and a while, and they don't do it. Even with turnovers, you're not worst in the league giving up points if your defense is playing great.
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Old 10-23-2007   #47
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Default Re: Defense

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Originally Posted by Speedy View Post
Look, there's no doubt that the offense left them in some bad positions for most of the day, but some of you are acting like Ten. got the ball in FG goal range all day, got a couple of yards, then kicked it and that's not what happened out there. Yeah, thanks to the offense, Ten. started 7 drives in Houston territory. And from those 7 drives, 5 FG's were kicked, 15 points. 112 yards were gained on those 7 possessions. No, you can't really throw that on the D. I get that.

BUT!!!

Their other 9 possessions were started on their own side of the field and Ten. picked up 23 points, 2 TD's and 3 FG's, and gave up 310 yards. Not one of those possessions were started from a turnover. 9 possessions, that's a little below the average amount for an entire game. 23 points, 310 yards and scoring on over half your possessions. That doesn't look all that great to me.

Short field, long field, it really didn't matter much because the Titans drove the ball and put points on the board either way. Yeah, they scored 5 times out of 7 possessions starting on the Houston side of the field and the majority of that blame goes to the offense, but they scored on 5 of 9 possessions from their side of the field as well, including both of their TD's.

Make excuses for them if you must, but it doesn't change the way they played in that game or the way they can't stop anybody on 3rd down (47% going into that game) all season long. And it doesn't change the fact they didn't get close enough to see the number on the jersey of Kerry freaking Collins!!!!

The Texans have given up 60 points off of turnovers this season, WORST in the NFL. I realize turnovers put a huge burden on the D, but they've got to make some stops, get some negative yardage with some sacks or something, back teams up out of FG range every once and a while, and they don't do it. Even with turnovers, you're not worst in the league giving up points if your defense is playing great.
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Old 10-23-2007   #48
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Default Re: Defense

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Originally Posted by hookinreds View Post
Team 1: 422 yards on 16 possessions = 26.375 yards per possession
Team 2: 324 yards on 9 possessions = 36.000 yards per possession
Team 3: 308 yards on 12 possessions = 25.666 yards per possession
Team 4: 226 yards on 10 possessions = 22.600 yards per possession
Team 5: 382 yards on 12 possessions = 31.833 yards per possession

Index:
Team 1=Houston (Rank #21 Def YPG)
Team 2=Pittsburgh (Rank #1 Def YPG)
Team 3=Baltimore (Rank #2 Def YPG)
Team 4=Indianapolis (Rank #3 Def YPG)
Team 5=New England (Rank #4 Def YPG)

8 times the Titans started at midfield or closer 6 of which started in FG range.
(TN49,H49,38,33,32,30,23,17) resulting in 6 FG; 1 Fum; 1 Punt

I'd say they did ok this week based on the number of possessions they had to defend.
This is by far the most relevant post in this thread.

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Old 10-23-2007   #49
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Default Re: Defense

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy View Post
Look, there's no doubt that the offense left them in some bad positions for most of the day, but some of you are acting like Ten. got the ball in FG goal range all day, got a couple of yards, then kicked it and that's not what happened out there. Yeah, thanks to the offense, Ten. started 7 drives in Houston territory. And from those 7 drives, 5 FG's were kicked, 15 points. 112 yards were gained on those 7 possessions. No, you can't really throw that on the D. I get that.

BUT!!!

Their other 9 possessions were started on their own side of the field and Ten. picked up 23 points, 2 TD's and 3 FG's, and gave up 310 yards. Not one of those possessions were started from a turnover. 9 possessions, that's a little below the average amount for an entire game. 23 points, 310 yards and scoring on over half your possessions. That doesn't look all that great to me.

Short field, long field, it really didn't matter much because the Titans drove the ball and put points on the board either way. Yeah, they scored 5 times out of 7 possessions starting on the Houston side of the field and the majority of that blame goes to the offense, but they scored on 5 of 9 possessions from their side of the field as well, including both of their TD's.

Make excuses for them if you must, but it doesn't change the way they played in that game or the way they can't stop anybody on 3rd down (47% going into that game) all season long. And it doesn't change the fact they didn't get close enough to see the number on the jersey of Kerry freaking Collins!!!!

The Texans have given up 60 points off of turnovers this season, WORST in the NFL. I realize turnovers put a huge burden on the D, but they've got to make some stops, get some negative yardage with some sacks or something, back teams up out of FG range every once and a while, and they don't do it. Even with turnovers, you're not worst in the league giving up points if your defense is playing great.
There ain't a big enough but in the world to hide the first part of your diatribe. The defense held in the first quarter and scored the only points. The offense flat out failed - fumble, punt, interception, punt, punt, punt fumble, interception, punt. That was the first nine possessions and they tallied 26 plays. At this point we are half way through the third quarter.

Yep the defense needs to get better. Yep individuals need to produce. But the incessant overstatement of the demise of the Texans defensive personnel is shockingly gleeful through this virtual voyeur's ocular cavities. Get us one FS, one LB and a new DC and we will be terrific.
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Old 10-24-2007   #50
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Default Re: Defense

1st drive: started at TEN 31: 6 plays, 35 yards- 52 yd fg
2nd drive: started at HOU 23: 3 plays, fumble recovery
3rd drive: started at TEN 39: 1 play, fumble recovery,td
4th drive: started at TEN 24: 3 plays, 1 yard, punt
5th drive: started at HOU 38: 9 plays, 31 yards- 25 yd fg
6th drive: started at HOU 49: 4 plays, 45 yards-21 yd fg
7th drive: started at TEN 23: 9 plays 77 yards- 1 yd td
8th drive: started at HOU 32: 4 plays, 18 yards- 28 yd fg
9th drive: started at HOU 30: 6 plays, 5 yards- 43 yd fg
10th drive: started at TEN 27: 12 plays, 73 yards- 4yd td

NOTE: TO THIS POINT (3 MINS LEFT- 3 Q), THE TEXANS OFFENCE HAD 9 DRIVES AND AVERAGED EXACTLY 3 PLAYS PER DRIVE IN THIS TIME WITH (OBVIOUSLY) 0 POINTS AND 1 FIRST DOWN AND HAD HELD THE BALL FOR A WHOPPING 11 MIN 46 SEC OUT OF 42 MINUTES WHICH MEAN THE D HAD AN AVERAGE 1 MIN 18 SEC REST BEFORE BEING OUT ON THE FIELD AGAIN

THIS NOTICEABLY TIRED THE D IN THE 10TH DRIVE WHERE THEY NEVER EVEN FORCED A 3RD DOWN


the D has now 'conceded' 35 points but imo has made plenty of stops and forced a turnover when the tacks scoring position as well as scoring a defensive TD.. im really surprised at the people who are blaming the D for this mess when its so blatantly obvious that they made plenty of stops which, if they hadnt been given such ridiculous field position should've been punts.. some of the established posters should know better and DB, personally, id be thinking rob bironas would be sending thank you cards to the texans offence not the D

and look at the td's even:
1st- had the tacks in 3rd and long when petey got a harsh enough PI cal in the endzone
2nd- they were obviously gassed from being on the field



and just to finish it off:
11th drive: started at TEN 20, 4 plays, 31 yards, punt
12th drive: started at TEN 24, 3 plays, 6 yards, punt MUFF
13th drive: started at HOU 33, 3 plays, -6 yards, punt1 off play- int
14th drive: started at HOU 17, 3 plays, 6 yards, fg
Great job D- 3 stops in a row
Last drive: well you know- incomplete, incomplete, big gain for fg


My conclusion: the D came to play- got loads of stops and kept us in it.. this could have be an epic loss (im talking 50-60 points) if they hadn't played so well and many of the posters above me are just pissed about the game and want to blame everybody.. well not me, the D was great given the circumstances

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Old 10-24-2007   #51
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Default Re: Defense

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Oh, except they have 'heart' now, so that accounts for something I hear.
I said that once...I'm thinking of taking it back. I'll wait for a few more games to make that call.
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Old 10-24-2007   #52
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Default Re: Defense

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Originally Posted by Maddict5 View Post
1st drive: started at TEN 31: 6 plays, 35 yards- 52 yd fg
2nd drive: started at HOU 23: 3 plays, fumble recovery
3rd drive: started at TEN 39: 1 play, fumble recovery,td
4th drive: started at TEN 24: 3 plays, 1 yard, punt
5th drive: started at HOU 38: 9 plays, 31 yards- 25 yd fg
6th drive: started at HOU 49: 4 plays, 45 yards-21 yd fg
7th drive: started at TEN 23: 9 plays 77 yards- 1 yd td
8th drive: started at HOU 32: 4 plays, 18 yards- 28 yd fg
9th drive: started at HOU 30: 6 plays, 5 yards- 43 yd fg
10th drive: started at TEN 27: 12 plays, 73 yards- 4yd td

NOTE: TO THIS POINT (3 MINS LEFT- 3 Q), THE TEXANS OFFENCE HAD 9 DRIVES AND AVERAGED EXACTLY 3 PLAYS PER DRIVE IN THIS TIME WITH (OBVIOUSLY) 0 POINTS AND 1 FIRST DOWN AND HAD HELD THE BALL FOR A WHOPPING 11 MIN 46 SEC OUT OF 42 MINUTES WHICH MEAN THE D HAD AN AVERAGE 1 MIN 18 SEC REST BEFORE BEING OUT ON THE FIELD AGAIN

THIS NOTICEABLY TIRED THE D IN THE 10TH DRIVE WHERE THEY NEVER EVEN FORCED A 3RD DOWN


the D has now 'conceded' 35 points but imo has made plenty of stops and forced a turnover when the tacks scoring position as well as scoring a defensive TD.. im really surprised at the people who are blaming the D for this mess when its so blatantly obvious that they made plenty of stops which, if they hadnt been given such ridiculous field position should've been punts.. some of the established posters should know better and DB, personally, id be thinking rob bironas would be sending thank you cards to the texans offence not the D

and look at the td's even:
1st- had the tacks in 3rd and long when petey got a harsh enough PI cal in the endzone
2nd- they were obviously gassed from being on the field



and just to finish it off:
11th drive: started at TEN 20, 4 plays, 31 yards, punt
12th drive: started at TEN 24, 3 plays, 6 yards, punt MUFF
13th drive: started at HOU 33, 3 plays, -6 yards, punt1 off play- int
14th drive: started at HOU 17, 3 plays, 6 yards, fg
Great job D- 3 stops in a row
Last drive: well you know- incomplete, incomplete, big gain for fg


My conclusion: the D came to play- got loads of stops and kept us in it.. this could have be an epic loss (im talking 50-60 points) if they hadn't played so well and many of the posters above me are just pissed about the game and want to blame everybody.. well not me, the D was great given the circumstances

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Old 10-24-2007   #53
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Default Re: Defense

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Originally Posted by Speedy View Post
The Texans have given up 60 points off of turnovers this season, WORST in the NFL. I realize turnovers put a huge burden on the D, but they've got to make some stops, get some negative yardage with some sacks or something, back teams up out of FG range every once and a while, and they don't do it. Even with turnovers, you're not worst in the league giving up points if your defense is playing great.
that might be because, by my calculations, we've turned the ball over the 3rd most in the league (only behind STL and CHI) and as im going off stats, i have no idea where those teams turned the ball over but i suspect they weren't anywhere near as bad as we were against the titans on sunday.. so that stat means zilch imo

Last edited by Maddict5; 10-24-2007 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 10-24-2007   #54
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Default Re: Defense

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Originally Posted by hookinreds View Post
Team 1: 422 yards on 16 possessions = 26.375 yards per possession
Team 2: 324 yards on 9 possessions = 36.000 yards per possession
Team 3: 308 yards on 12 possessions = 25.666 yards per possession
Team 4: 226 yards on 10 possessions = 22.600 yards per possession
Team 5: 382 yards on 12 possessions = 31.833 yards per possession

Index:
Team 1=Houston (Rank #21 Def YPG)
Team 2=Pittsburgh (Rank #1 Def YPG)
Team 3=Baltimore (Rank #2 Def YPG)
Team 4=Indianapolis (Rank #3 Def YPG)
Team 5=New England (Rank #4 Def YPG)

8 times the Titans started at midfield or closer 6 of which started in FG range.
(TN49,H49,38,33,32,30,23,17) resulting in 6 FG; 1 Fum; 1 Punt

I'd say they did ok this week based on the number of possessions they had to defend.
Your statistics are flawed by the fact that there was such a short field to defend. If the Titans had longer fields, chances are they would of had longer drives.

As the field gets shorter it gets harder to move the ball because the defense becomes more concentrated, e.g. harder to stretch the field etc. This essentially is why bend don't break defenses work.

Also depending on the coaching, when a team gets into 'scoring position' playcalling can change to ensure that field position is not lost and the points are indeed scored.

I appreciate your work in doing these stats, but stats only tell part of the story, please don't let stats lie to your eyes. The defense got beat down in the three quarters that the Titans came to play and the only minute that counted.
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Old 10-24-2007   #55
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Default Re: Defense

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Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
Your statistics are flawed by the fact that there was such a short field to defend. If the Titans had longer fields, chances are they would of had longer drives.

As the field gets shorter it gets harder to move the ball because the defense becomes more concentrated, e.g. harder to stretch the field etc. This essentially is why bend don't break defenses work.

Also depending on the coaching, when a team gets into 'scoring position' playcalling can change to ensure that field position is not lost and the points are indeed scored.

I appreciate your work in doing these stats, but stats only tell part of the story, please don't let stats lie to your eyes. The defense got beat down in the three quarters that the Titans came to play and the only minute that counted.
Flawed? All I did was take statistics that included every possession for each of the teams last week as a comparison of what each defense did that week. I didn't place the ball on a particular yard mark for any of the games, and I didn't check where each of there opponents drives started from either, but I guess I could do that.

Are you suggesting that the NFL should only count possessions that include drives of say 40+ yards? Last time I checked, you could still stretch a defense from outside the 30 and only need to get around the 33-35 yard line to have a "statistical" chance at making a field goal. Should the NFL disregard drives where the opponent starts on their own 40yd line and drives 25yds to kick a winning field goal?

All defenses (well most) are able to tighten up the reigns as the ball gets closer to the goal line. Making it more difficult to punch it in, that's why the Red Zone starts at the 20, not outside the 20, as you are expected to come away with a TD, a FG is a failure but still puts points on the board. 8 times the Titans had the ball in close and 6 times could only muster field goals. If the defense never went on the field and the Titans only attempted to kick, they would have probably hit 7-8 of them. So, the defense kept two of the possessions out of box score and the other 6 ended up what we prayed they would only become.

Please note that I am mearly expressing my perspective, not attacking you or any other poster personally...I would be doing the same thing if we were sitting next to each watching the game.
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Old 10-24-2007   #56
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Default Re: Defense

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Originally Posted by hookinreds View Post
Flawed? All I did was take statistics that included every possession for each of the teams last week as a comparison of what each defense did that week. I didn't place the ball on a particular yard mark for any of the games, and I didn't check where each of there opponents drives started from either, but I guess I could do that.

Are you suggesting that the NFL should only count possessions that include drives of say 40+ yards? Last time I checked, you could still stretch a defense from outside the 30 and only need to get around the 33-35 yard line to have a "statistical" chance at making a field goal. Should the NFL disregard drives where the opponent starts on their own 40yd line and drives 25yds to kick a winning field goal?

All defenses (well most) are able to tighten up the reigns as the ball gets closer to the goal line. Making it more difficult to punch it in, that's why the Red Zone starts at the 20, not outside the 20, as you are expected to come away with a TD, a FG is a failure but still puts points on the board. 8 times the Titans had the ball in close and 6 times could only muster field goals. If the defense never went on the field and the Titans only attempted to kick, they would have probably hit 7-8 of them. So, the defense kept two of the possessions out of box score and the other 6 ended up what we prayed they would only become.

Please note that I am mearly expressing my perspective, not attacking you or any other poster personally...I would be doing the same thing if we were sitting next to each watching the game.
I'm just saying that stats without context are meaningless.

As the saying goes, there are lies, damn lies and statistics.
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Old 10-29-2007   #57
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Default Re: Defense

My apoligies, I didn't realize that we were posting threads a week in advance. You were right, it looked horrible.

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Old 10-29-2007   #58
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Default Re: Defense

Buddy Ryan! Buddy Ryan! For the love of god BUDDY RYAN!

Better Idea. Let's see if we can get some DNA from Art Rooney, George Hallis, Vince Lombardi, Bear Bryant & Tom Landry. Spice all that DNA and create a SUPERCOACH! HA. HA HA. BWAH...HA HA HA HA HAAAAA!
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Old 10-29-2007   #59
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Default Re: Defense

As I said at the 3rd base. " Never give up and never surrender. " Our defense wasn't "GOOD" by any means, but am I the only one who noticed that on the Teetons last drive the play clock had ticked down to 0 then started up again and ticked to 37 before they ever snapped the ball? I always thought the home field advantage as far as time goes usually goes to the friggin HOME TEAM!!!!
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Old 10-29-2007   #60
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Default Re: Defense

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As I said at the 3rd base. " Never give up and never surrender. " Our defense wasn't "GOOD" by any means, but am I the only one who noticed that on the Teetons last drive the play clock had ticked down to 0 then started up again and ticked to 37 before they ever snapped the ball? I always thought the home field advantage as far as time goes usually goes to the friggin HOME TEAM!!!!
I actually resuscitated this thread as it was completely relevant to this weeks defense...or lack thereof.

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