Why some people don't like Kevin Walter

[BigBull17]

Originally Posted by HOU-TEX

Culpepper

Close, the guy Im thinking about has a little more Hardware.

[Specnatz]

Originally Posted by Vinny

Don't kid yourself...he will keep making mistakes...they all do. The great ones make plays to overcome their mistakes.

Was not my point. I know he will make mistakes but I was referring to that mistake in particular. Where he held the ball out in front and it was an easy strip.

[New_Texans]

Hes not a number 1, he can catch all the balls he want and eat up yards but he can't score touchdowns with is YAC ability. Hes a number 2-3...We really need to have Andre Davis, Jacoby Jones, and Walter out there. Two burners and two clutch receivers (including Daniels).

[Runner]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

Who was also sacked 3 times, too, IIRC.

Brady, huh? Did they score any offensive touchdowns?

[Malloy]

Honestly I had no feelings about him as a player, neither good nor bad before last sunday. Kevin Walter did impress me and I hope he keeps doing that!

[BigBull17]

Originally Posted by Runner

Brady, huh? Did they score any offensive touchdowns?

Yeah, but is their # 3 David Anderson?

[Texanmike02]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

props to you KJ3, Walter's showing why Kubes was so high on him in the 1st place. I remember in previous threads folks were wondering why he wasn't doing more & he should be demoted to 3rd string b/c of it.

Dude has no problem getting open, no problem catching the ball. As far as i'm concerned, he's perfect as a possession WR. Schaub has just missed him 2 the tune of at least 3 TD's this season. It's probably the speed differential between him & the other WR's, but shcaub has to get better at that.

Schaub's deep ball has been less than impressive. He's missed several receivers deep. One of the reason I haven't given him an A when I reviewed the games.

You must be able to hit that deep ball especially when your receiver gets a step.

as far as KW... He has EXCELLENT hands. I think the best on the team. He's not the best athlete on the team but he runs very crisp routes and shields the ball with is body well when catching in traffic. He is a classic possession receiver. As Schaub works on his game... he will be a valuable part of this offense.

Mike

[BigBull17]

Originally Posted by Texanmike

Schaub's deep ball has been less than impressive. He's missed several receivers deep. One of the reason I haven't given him an A when I reviewed the games.

You must be able to hit that deep ball especially when your receiver gets a step.

as far as KW... He has EXCELLENT hands. I think the best on the team. He's not the best athlete on the team but he runs very crisp routes and shields the ball with is body well when catching in traffic. He is a classic possession receiver. As Schaub works on his game... he will be a valuable part of this offense.

Mike

I agree he has had a few bad deep throws, but at least he freakin throws them. YKW was so scared of makeing mistakes he refused to throw them. You cant be that way. He will get his aim down and learn the placing he needs. But other than that, he has been having a great year.

[Kaiser Toro]

I likes these Kevins Walters.

[Texanmike02]

Originally Posted by BigBull17

I agree he has had a few bad deep throws, but at least he freakin throws them. YKW was so scared of makeing mistakes he refused to throw them. You cant be that way. He will get his aim down and learn the placing he needs. But other than that, he has been having a great year.

That may be true. But I'm pretty much done measuring players on our roster today by the standards set in the past. MS has to be judged on his own merit. That really goes for the whole team. Especially when talking about what their skill set is.

Mike

[Fox]

Do you guys think the short throws on deep routes are an issue with accuracy, arm strength, or timing? It's probably a little of each, but I've seen some posters and Lance Zierlein refer to it as an arm strength issue. On Andre's 70 some odd yard TD to start the season he didn't have to slow down for the ball, so we know Schaub has the ability to hit the deep ball on the money. I've also seen him overthrow receivers deep so I don't think it's all arm strength. I tend to think at this point he may be just throwing the ball too late and not throwing it too deep for fear of overthrowing his target.

It's not a horrible problem, a 30-40 yard reception is still a 30-40 yard reception, but if he can get the timing worked out to hit them in stride we're going to score more touchdowns and force teams to keep their safeties back.

[Texanmike02]

Originally Posted by Fox

Do you guys think the short throws on deep routes are an issue with accuracy, arm strength, or timing? It's probably a little of each, but I've seen some posters and Lance Zierlein refer to it as an arm strength issue. On Andre's 70 some odd yard TD to start the season he didn't have to slow down for the ball, so we know Schaub has the ability to hit the deep ball on the money. I've also seen him overthrow receivers deep so I don't think it's all arm strength. I tend to think at this point he may be just throwing the ball too late and not throwing it too deep for fear of overthrowing his target.

It's not a horrible problem, a 30-40 yard reception is still a 30-40 yard reception, but if he can get the timing worked out to hit them in stride we're going to score more touchdowns and force teams to keep their safeties back.

I'm not sure. Judging from what I've seen its a timing/accuracy issue if you ask me. I've seen him make long throws... longer than some of the ones he misses on. It seems to be a placement issue if you ask me. Take for example the one to AD on the right sideline in the ATL game. It was thrown over the wrong shoulder (unless I suppose AD was supposed to leave more room on the sideline when he ran his route).... AD had to turn and contort his body and wasn't able to reel it in. That throw was about as deep as he's been asked to throw the ball, other than the one he under threw KW to in the Miami game on the left side.... maybe he's trying to lay it in there with too much touch... because KW did have his man beat when he got to that spot.. he just had to wait for the ball If its thrown at a lower trajectory its prob 6.

Mike

[BigBull17]

Originally Posted by Texanmike

That may be true. But I'm pretty much done measuring players on our roster today by the standards set in the past. MS has to be judged on his own merit. That really goes for the whole team. Especially when talking about what their skill set is.

Mike

That wasnt really my goal to compair the two. I just said that to win in this leauge, you have to take that chance. If you dont, then D's can just take the away the shallow/intermediate and you're dead in the water. It happened to use repeatedly in the past, and to Tampa with Brad Johnson. If there is no threat deep, its harder to play offense. Thus, even if he hasnt had sucess that he wants, he still has shown the ballz to let it rip. So, as a defense, you cant shorten your coverage against us. I guess I should have been more clear.

I know it sounds like rambling, but to my mind, it makes perfect sense.

[Texanmike02]

Originally Posted by BigBull17

That wasnt really my goal to compair the two. I just said that to win in this leauge, you have to take that chance. If you dont, then D's can just take the away the shallow/intermediate and you're dead in the water. It happened to use repeatedly in the past, and to Tampa with Brad Johnson. If there is no threat deep, its harder to play offense. Thus, even if he hasnt had sucess that he wants, he still has shown the ballz to let it rip. So, as a defense, you cant shorten your coverage against us. I guess I should have been more clear.

I know it sounds like rambling, but to my mind, it makes perfect sense.

I get what you're saying. And to be honest... I think HWWDNSO threw a decent deep ball early in his career. But they started messing around with him and it regressed alot between 2004 -2006. I asked on the old texanstalk.com if he was injured because he started throwing ducks. But then it continued in 2005/2006 and I just assumed they tried to change his launch point or something.

Mike

[BigBull17]

Originally Posted by Texanmike

I get what you're saying. And to be honest... I think HWWDNSO threw a decent deep ball early in his career. But they started messing around with him and it regressed alot between 2004 -2006. I asked on the old texanstalk.com if he was injured because he started throwing ducks. But then it continued in 2005/2006 and I just assumed they tried to change his launch point or something.

Mike

Yeah, he had a better touch early. I know people dont want to hear psyco babble, but I think he was so worried about throwing a pick, he let it get to him. Of corse, he started throwing them and then became scared to even think about it.

On a side note, Im completly not on topic. So, I have no idea why poeple get wierd on Walter. I guess its because he is nothing like you would expect your #2 to look like. He isnt fast. He isnt a huge guy. He isnt a fantastic leaper. He just does all the blue collor things that make you successful. Hes not gonna get you 150 every game. Hes not a 2 TD a game guy. Hes not a YAC guy. He will just catch 5 balls for around 50-70 yards, and 4 of them will be first downs.

I will admit, I think Davis gives us our best threat opposite Dre, but Walter should be on this team for a while as a #3. When Jacoby is ready, he will still be there and thats not a bad thing. You could do worse at the spot than Walter. Remember Corey Bradford?

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by Texanmike

I get what you're saying. And to be honest... I think HWWDNSO threw a decent deep ball early in his career. But they started messing around with him and it regressed alot between 2004 -2006. I asked on the old texanstalk.com if he was injured because he started throwing ducks. But then it continued in 2005/2006 and I just assumed they tried to change his launch point or something.

Mike

I've always thought he injured something in his rotator cuff and lost the strength necessary to make those throws. I've said that before and been told that I was wrong. But something happened to make him stop throwing the deep ball.

[Texanmike02]

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck

I've always thought he injured something in his rotator cuff and lost the strength necessary to make those throws. I've said that before and been told that I was wrong. But something happened to make him stop throwing the deep ball.

didn't he separate it or something at one point? Because I know the last two or 3 years he just couldn't throw it... the few times he tried they weren't the same.

Mike

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by Texanmike

didn't he separate it or something at one point? Because I know the last two or 3 years he just couldn't throw it... the few times he tried they weren't the same.

Mike

Eh, i know in 1 of our buffalo games something happened to his throwing shoulder, but i don't think arm strengh was the issue with his deep ball towards the end of his tenure here. he just got so paranoid of throwing a pick that he often times just tried to throw it where no one, not even his WR, could catch it.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by Texanmike

I'm not sure. Judging from what I've seen its a timing/accuracy issue if you ask me. I've seen him make long throws... longer than some of the ones he misses on. It seems to be a placement issue if you ask me. Take for example the one to AD on the right sideline in the ATL game. It was thrown over the wrong shoulder (unless I suppose AD was supposed to leave more room on the sideline when he ran his route).... AD had to turn and contort his body and wasn't able to reel it in. That throw was about as deep as he's been asked to throw the ball, other than the one he under threw KW to in the Miami game on the left side.... maybe he's trying to lay it in there with too much touch... because KW did have his man beat when he got to that spot.. he just had to wait for the ball If its thrown at a lower trajectory its prob 6.

Mike

It is timing and accuracy, but it may not all be on the QB. Classic counter example from Brady last week. Watson down the middle with the DB tight on his left shoulder. Brady throws the ball to the left of the DB and then Watson breaks across the front of the DB and gets the ball. Watson isn't on the same page with Brady on that play and the ball looks horribly mis-thrown. A lot of stuff happens after the ball leaves the QB's hand--receivers changing pace, direction, looking over a different shoulder than anticipated, etc. It shouldn't be surprising at all that a new QB operating with backup receivers is going to have some miscommunication/timing for a while.

For comparison sake:

Matt Schaub 31-40 yards in the air--71.4% 40+ yards--50%
HWWNBN (career) 31-40 yards--39% 40+ yards--23%
Manning (the good one--last three years) 31-40 yards--65% 40+ yards--50%

[Texans_Chick]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

It is timing and accuracy, but it may not all be on the QB. Classic counter example from Brady last week. Watson down the middle with the DB tight on his left shoulder. Brady throws the ball to the left of the DB and then Watson breaks across the front of the DB and gets the ball. Watson isn't on the same page with Brady on that play and the ball looks horribly mis-thrown. A lot of stuff happens after the ball leaves the QB's hand--receivers changing pace, direction, looking over a different shoulder than anticipated, etc. It shouldn't be surprising at all that a new QB operating with backup receivers is going to have some miscommunication/timing for a while.

True. Also, it is hard to say how Schaub's thigh bruise suffered a couple of weeks ago has affected his throwing. I've seen some wicked thigh bruises, and it's not like you just ran into the side of your desk or something. If they are bad enough, you can get a divot in your muscle and it kills you to walk