Some qoutes and some thoughts.

[Marcus]

Originally Posted by Porky

I heard Steve Mckinney this morning claim his line was top 10 material. If I would have been eating my Wheaties, I would have choked to death. I think Steve needs to retire and go shoot some more defenseless animals to put over his fireplace, and let's get a real center in here. Instead of arguing with the ref's he could bag a Zebra. That takes a real man.

McKinney should be fined by league for hiding his obvious head injury. He's in such a state of denial, I can't see him even trying to improve himself during the offseason. I wish they would just cut him, and screw the cap hit.

And I want Casserly to take a center with the 2nd pick. Send a message to that imbecile.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by SESupergenius

I for one like the idea of us re-signed Foley last year. I thought he play pretty good for us when he was in and looked forward to him eventually challenging Foreman. WE would have had Wong, Sharper, Foley, and Peek starting this year with Foreman and Polk as backups. That's not a bad lineup and instead of Babin (who I do like) we could have had a decent DL drafted last year. This is all hindsight but that scenario was very much in the works before Foley wasn't resigned and we drafted Babin.

We were and are in agreement on this one. I wanted a replacement for Foreman last year. Of course Foley is getting all this glory at OLB in SD but I see no reason he couldn't have been an ILB. Running a 3-4 I would rather see them keep someone like Foley or now maybe Anderson to develop/learn their talent and to have great special teams than some other spots on the team.

[Wolf]

throw stats out of the window with Carr versus Vick (however that started in this thread)... Major difference between the 2.. Carr plays against 11 defenders.. Vick plays against 10 defenders.. Makes no sense? Teams have to respect Vick and put a "spy" on Vick.. that leaves 1 guy strickly in no mans land instead of doubling a TE or maybe doubling a WR.

And Yes Carr can run.. But can Carr beat you with his feet like Vick can? No, Vick can go the distance...And that is the same as a DD compared to a LT comparison.

[Grid]

There is no doubt that what Vick does, gives defenses a hard time. There is also no doubting that when it comes to actually being a QB.. meaning.. throwing the ball to the open receiver. Carr is 10x better than Vick.

Now.. which is better for their team? I dunno... I cant predict the future. The Falcons are in the playoffs this year because of their defense... their offense did their part, but it was their defense that won games. Did Vick help? most definatly.. but he isnt a one man show.. he didnt single handedly win any games this year.. for the most part, his contributions came from making big runs at important times.

anyway.. this is a pointless debate. Can I compare Carr to Vick? yes I can.. Carr has better stats all around. The only difference between the two teams is the wins and losses .. and neither of the teams records can be laid at the feet of their QBs. Vick did not push them into the playoffs, and Carr did not keep us out of it. All i know is that its an unfair statement to say Vick is better than Carr.. when he has a dominating top 10 defense taking him to the playoffs.. and an Oline that gives him protection. Put Carr and our WRs on the Falcons team and we would be in the superbowl. Then again who knows.. without Vick's scrambling.. maybe the Oline wouldnt be as good.


Anyway.. I understand your arguements. Vick is exciting to watch.. he makes plays at important times, and his team is in the playoffs. My only point is that you cannot say he is a better QB than Carr, when Carr has better stats and does not have the help that Vick has

[Texan Gal 312]

Originally Posted by The Wal-Mart

. Comparing Carr to Vick is like comparing apples to oranges. .

The stats were originally posted in response to the statement I even think Vick's arm is stronger than Carr's. Then everybody went off on a tangent.
Vick brings many things to the table but be a strong armed accurate passer is not one of them.

[Wolf]

Originally Posted by Grid

There is no doubt that what Vick does, gives defenses a hard time. There is also no doubting that when it comes to actually being a QB.. meaning.. throwing the ball to the open receiver. Carr is 10x better than Vick.

Now.. which is better for their team? I dunno... I cant predict the future. The Falcons are in the playoffs this year because of their defense... their offense did their part, but it was their defense that won games. Did Vick help? most definatly.. but he isnt a one man show.. he didnt single handedly win any games this year.. for the most part, his contributions came from making big runs at important times.

anyway.. this is a pointless debate. Can I compare Carr to Vick? yes I can.. Carr has better stats all around. The only difference between the two teams is the wins and losses .. and neither of the teams records can be laid at the feet of their QBs. Vick did not push them into the playoffs, and Carr did not keep us out of it. All i know is that its an unfair statement to say Vick is better than Carr.. when he has a dominating top 10 defense taking him to the playoffs.. and an Oline that gives him protection. Put Carr and our WRs on the Falcons team and we would be in the superbowl. Then again who knows.. without Vick's scrambling.. maybe the Oline wouldnt be as good.


Anyway.. I understand your arguements. Vick is exciting to watch.. he makes plays at important times, and his team is in the playoffs. My only point is that you cannot say he is a better QB than Carr, when Carr has better stats and does not have the help that Vick has

All I know is without vick last year,it got Dan Reeves fired, then they went 3-1 to close out the season with him... And look at their record this year with him playing and without him playing.. there is some intangable with him playing.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by Wolf

All I know is without vick last year,it got Dan Reeves fired, then they went 3-1 to close out the season with him... And look at their record this year with him playing and without him playing.. there is some intangable with him playing.

Very true, on the other hand it isn't like the Falcons still had Brett Favre waiting in the wings as a back up. The guys they had played miserably.

[brickmantexanfan]

You have see the mistakes to fix them(thats the coaches job)Maybe i just see all the good things that have happened to this team since 2002,and can't find a reason to believe that the set backs it has encountered out weighs the progress.What I mean is i don't see the team taking 2 steps forward then 2 steps back,more like 2 forward and 1 back,but thats just me,not really going anywhere with this but just tired of the negative stuff when i see so many psitive sides.thats all

[The Wal-Mart]

Originally Posted by Grid

There is no doubt that what Vick does, gives defenses a hard time. There is also no doubting that when it comes to actually being a QB.. meaning.. throwing the ball to the open receiver. Carr is 10x better than Vick.

Now.. which is better for their team? I dunno... I cant predict the future. The Falcons are in the playoffs this year because of their defense... their offense did their part, but it was their defense that won games. Did Vick help? most definatly.. but he isnt a one man show.. he didnt single handedly win any games this year.. for the most part, his contributions came from making big runs at important times.

anyway.. this is a pointless debate. Can I compare Carr to Vick? yes I can.. Carr has better stats all around. The only difference between the two teams is the wins and losses .. and neither of the teams records can be laid at the feet of their QBs. Vick did not push them into the playoffs, and Carr did not keep us out of it. All i know is that its an unfair statement to say Vick is better than Carr.. when he has a dominating top 10 defense taking him to the playoffs.. and an Oline that gives him protection. Put Carr and our WRs on the Falcons team and we would be in the superbowl. Then again who knows.. without Vick's scrambling.. maybe the Oline wouldnt be as good.


Anyway.. I understand your arguements. Vick is exciting to watch.. he makes plays at important times, and his team is in the playoffs. My only point is that you cannot say he is a better QB than Carr, when Carr has better stats and does not have the help that Vick has

Not trying to disrespect your opinions or philosophy Grid. I can appreciate a fan sticking to their guns and sticking up for their quarterback. I have a lot of respect for David Carr and what he does on and off the field. He's a classy guy especially reading about the whole incident with his wife. He rarely loses his temper (that might be a bad thing though), hasn't openly criticized his teammates or the organization, and I've never seen him mouth an F-bomb on television (unlike Jake Delhomme in the SB). My whole thing with stats is even journeymen Qbs are prone to put up good numbers in a particular season. Does that mean they made their team any better or are more important than franchise Qbs? I don't think so. I'm not ready to compare Carr's skills and on-field performance to that of Vick. They're just too different. If your defintion of a pure quarterback is one that stands in the pocket and hands off to the running back, than Carr has more in common with Troy Aikman (maybe even Plummer) than he does Michael Vick. And no Vick's not the Falcon savior, but you have to admit they're a completely different team when he doesn't play. Anyway that's just my 2 cents and I need to boost my post level.

[The Wal-Mart]

Originally Posted by Texan Gal 312

The stats were originally posted in response to the statement I even think Vick's arm is stronger than Carr's. Then everybody went off on a tangent.
Vick brings many things to the table but be a strong armed accurate passer is not one of them.

I was referring to how far they can throw the ball and the velocity they put on it. Coming out of college Vick was touted as having one of the strongest if not the strongest arm in the draft. Same thing with Carr, but I believe Vick's a stronger passer but less accurate.