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Old 08-04-2007   #121
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Default Re: VY in fight!

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Originally Posted by Blazing Arrow View Post
That still gives no argument for selecting a 3rd rounder going ot the Super Bowl.

Yes Montana and Brady are on different calabers of player. They have that leadership and get it done style of play that is hard to scout. BUt lets be honest here and look at the most recent Super Bowl QBs and leaders in passing at the QB position ...

1. Farve '91 2nd
2. Elway '83 1st
3. P. Manning '98 1st
4. Aikman '89 1st
5. Kelly ' 83 1st
6. Esiason '84 2nd
7. McNair '95 1st
8. Grossman '03 1st
9. Roethlisberger '04 1st
10. McNabb '99 1st

Allot of SB winning QBs in that group all selected pre 3rd round. Care to give me a list 10 SB Qbs since 1985 (a 22 year span) who were 3rd or below?
No, but I will tell you I just passed gas and it smelled alot like the upcoming season for the titans.
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Old 08-04-2007   #122
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Default Re: VY in fight!

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Originally Posted by Blazing Arrow View Post
That still gives no argument for selecting a 3rd rounder going ot the Super Bowl.

Yes Montana and Brady are on different calabers of player. They have that leadership and get it done style of play that is hard to scout. BUt lets be honest here and look at the most recent Super Bowl QBs and leaders in passing at the QB position ...

1. Farve '91 2nd
2. Elway '83 1st
3. P. Manning '98 1st
4. Aikman '89 1st
5. Kelly ' 83 1st
6. Esiason '84 2nd
7. McNair '95 1st
8. Grossman '03 1st
9. Roethlisberger '04 1st
10. McNabb '99 1st

Allot of SB winning QBs in that group all selected pre 3rd round. Care to give me a list 10 SB Qbs since 1985 (a 22 year span) who were 3rd or below?
1.Matt Hasselback Round 6
2.Tom Brady Round 6
3.Joe Montana Round 3
4.Brad Johnson Round 9
5.Rich Gannon Round 4
6.Chris Chandler Round 3
7.Mark Rypien Round 6
8.Stan Humphries Round 6
9.Neil O'Donnell Round 3
10.Jeff Hostetler Round 3

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Old 08-04-2007   #123
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Default Re: VY in fight!

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Originally Posted by Blazing Arrow View Post
That still gives no argument for selecting a 3rd rounder going ot the Super Bowl.

Yes Montana and Brady are on different calabers of player. They have that leadership and get it done style of play that is hard to scout. BUt lets be honest here and look at the most recent Super Bowl QBs and leaders in passing at the QB position ...

1. Farve '91 2nd
2. Elway '83 1st
3. P. Manning '98 1st
4. Aikman '89 1st
5. Kelly ' 83 1st
6. Esiason '84 2nd
7. McNair '95 1st
8. Grossman '03 1st
9. Roethlisberger '04 1st
10. McNabb '99 1st

Allot of SB winning QBs in that group all selected pre 3rd round. Care to give me a list 10 SB Qbs since 1985 (a 22 year span) who were 3rd or below?
1 David Carr
2 Joey Harrington
3 Ryan Leaf
4 Jeff George
5 Dan McGwire
6 Patrick Ramsey
7 Aaron Rogers
8 Heath Shuler
9 Akili Smith
10 Rick Mirer

The list continues......................

And M Shadows answered your other question.
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Old 08-04-2007   #124
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Default Re: VY in fight!

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Originally Posted by Overalls View Post
Another thing I noticed on the NFL Network show on the Titans last night was that if the Defense was allowed to touch vy he would have been sacked on about half his throws.



I also liked this quote about the Titans.
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By Tom Curran
NBCSports.com Updated: Aug02, 2007, 04:47 PM EDT

I've gone to three training camps so far and have eight left to visit. But I can already say with confidence that the nastiest camp of all is going to be the Tennessee Titans.

While I was in Tennessee Sunday and Monday, bodies crashed, tempers flared and expletives flew. Even in shorts, helmets and shoulder pads ("shells" to you football-talkin' folk) the Titans camp is just this side of mayhem.

They might not know how to play football, but it looks like it's because they don't know what they are doing in camp.
I like how you sidestep the fact that this comment was meant as a good thing.

I'll lay odds that Shammy will run for more yards than VY this year,your problem is that all of those yards will be behind the line of scrimmage. He will be the face for Kroger.
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Old 08-04-2007   #125
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Default Re: VY in fight!

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Originally Posted by M Shadows View Post
1.Matt Hasselback Round 6
2.Tom Brady Round 6
3.Joe Montana Round 3
4.Brad Johnson Round 9
5.Rich Gannon Round 4
6.Chris Chandler Round 3
7.Mark Rypien Round 6
8.Stan Humphries Round 6
9.Neil O'Donnell Round 3
10.Jeff Hostetler Round 3


You left out Delhomme and Kurt Warner, both UDFA's.
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Old 08-04-2007   #126
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Default Re: VY in fight!

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Originally Posted by Blazing Arrow View Post
Allot of SB winning QBs in that group all selected pre 3rd round. Care to give me a list 10 SB Qbs since 1985 (a 22 year span) who were 3rd or below?
Here's a more complete answer:

Since the 1985 season, the winner of the SB has been a #1 or #2 pick 13 times, 3+ 8 times, and an UDFA 1 time. The loser of the SB has been a #1/#2 pick 15 times, 3+ 5 times, and an UDFA 2 times.

Number one picks have faced off 7 times. 4 times, both QB's were drafted in the 3rd or less. 6 times, someone drafted in the 3rd round (or worse) has beaten a #1 or #2 pick.

QB's by round (if someone sees a mistake, let me know):

FIRST: Manning, Grossman, Roethlisberger, McNabb, Dilfer, Collins, McNair, Elway, Bledsoe, Aikman, Young, Kelly, Simms, McMahon, Eason, Williams.

SECOND: Favre, Esiason

THIRD: Hostetler, Montana, O'Donnell, Chandler

FOURTH: Gannon

SIXTH: Hasselbeck, Brady, Humphries, Rypien

NINTH: Johnson

UDFA: Delhomme, Warner

Last edited by The Pencil Neck; 08-04-2007 at 10:20 PM. Reason: Fixing things. Again.
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Old 08-04-2007   #127
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Default Re: VY in fight!

Chandler was a 3rd not a 1st.

Gannon 4th round.

O'Donnell 3rd round.

Young is an odd inclusion in any draft argument given his route to the NFL and eventual success there.

Tony Eason and Trent Dilfer as examples of QB success--hmmm.
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Last edited by infantrycak; 08-04-2007 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 08-04-2007   #128
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Default Re: VY in fight!

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Chandler was a 3rd not a 1st.

Gannon 4th round.

O'Donnell 3rd round.

Tony Eason and Trent Dilfer as examples of QB success--hmmm.
Thanks. I had Gannon and O'Donnell right on my spreadsheet and missed them when I made the list at the end.

I don't know why I thought Chandler was a 1st rounder.

I was thinking about making some first rounders have asterisks if they weren't with the team that drafted them originally but decided not to.
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Old 08-04-2007   #129
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Default Re: VY in fight!

Also omitted Doug Williams 1st rounder.

Good effort, but isn't the overall conclusion the same it is for the draft generally--you can make it and will have to make it at times with players from all over the draft but if you examine one position, you are overall going to get better results from higher draft picks?
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Old 08-04-2007   #130
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Default Re: VY in fight!

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Young is an odd inclusion in any draft argument given his route to the NFL and eventual success there.

Tony Eason and Trent Dilfer as examples of QB success--hmmm.
There was Young and Kelly who came in via the USFL.

Then, you've got Young, Collins, Dilfer, and of course Elway who weren't with the teams that originally drafted them when they got to the SB.

I'm tempted to take this back all the way to SB 1.
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Old 08-04-2007   #131
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Default Re: VY in fight!

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
There was Young and Kelly who came in via the USFL.
Young has three oddities going for him--(1) USFL, (2) being traded/not being with the drafting team and (3) sitting behind a hall of fame QB for four years under the tutelage of a hall of fame coach to inherit a Super Bowl team. What would Young have been like without #3?
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Old 08-04-2007   #132
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Default Re: VY in fight!

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Also omitted Doug Williams 1st rounder.

Good effort, but isn't the overall conclusion the same it is for the draft generally--you can make it and will have to make it at times with players from all over the draft but if you examine one position, you are overall going to get better results from higher draft picks?
I had Williams as a first when I was counting but left him off the list at the end.

Personally, I had no interest in the argument about QB's and draft position. I just found the information itself interesting.

Players are selected in the first round because someone thinks that they're talented AND that they'll fill a need. Usually those people are right but sometimes they're wrong. Sometimes a guy drops for reasons out of his control that have nothing to do with how he plays. Sometimes a guy just needs to be in the right place at the right time. As long as a guy can play, I really don't care where he's drafted but I'm not going to hold it against a guy if he's drafted in the first round, either.
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Old 08-04-2007   #133
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Default Re: VY in fight!

Honestly, I haven't read back thru the whole thread for whatever silly draft generalization argument may have been going on--seem to have been several lately. Thought your post was interesting but there were a couple nits to pick. Agree with your last post--bottom line, does the guy play football.
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Old 08-05-2007   #134
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Default Re: VY in fight!

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
You left out Delhomme and Kurt Warner, both UDFA's.
Thanks, even better. The fact is, it doesn't matter where you are drafted if you have a good team around the QB and the QB does not lose the game for you. You do not have to invest a high draft pick in a QB to go to the SB.

Teamwork and leadership can go a long way.
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Old 08-05-2007   #135
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Default Re: VY in fight!

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
You left out Delhomme and Kurt Warner, both UDFA's.
and Warren Moon. He went to the CFL.
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Old 08-05-2007   #136
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Default Re: VY in fight!

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and Warren Moon. He went to the CFL.
We were talking about Super Bowl QB's. Moon is, unfortunately, not on that list.
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Old 08-06-2007   #137
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Default Re: VY in fight!

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Here's a more complete answer:

Since the 1985 season, the winner of the SB has been a #1 or #2 pick 13 times, 3+ 8 times, and an UDFA 1 time. The loser of the SB has been a #1/#2 pick 15 times, 3+ 5 times, and an UDFA 2 times.

Number one picks have faced off 7 times. 4 times, both QB's were drafted in the 3rd or less. 6 times, someone drafted in the 3rd round (or worse) has beaten a #1 or #2 pick.

QB's by round (if someone sees a mistake, let me know):

FIRST: Manning, Grossman, Roethlisberger, McNabb, Dilfer, Collins, McNair, Elway, Bledsoe, Aikman, Young, Kelly, Simms, McMahon, Eason, Williams.

SECOND: Favre, Esiason

THIRD: Hostetler, Montana, O'Donnell, Chandler

FOURTH: Gannon

SIXTH: Hasselbeck, Brady, Humphries, Rypien

NINTH: Johnson

UDFA: Delhomme, Warner
Nice work my question was baited but and expected someone to come out with the players .....

I was going to then list another 5 QBs in my favor and ask for "round 2" but the wife took most of the weekend .... so ......
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