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Old 07-21-2007   #21
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Default Re: Guess Mac really wanted VY

I can spread some rep, so TC its coming your way. This train does not go in reverse, let look ahead and maybe someday we can put this VY nonsense to bed.
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Old 07-22-2007   #22
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Default Re: Guess Mac really wanted VY

"An experienced agent, someone like a Leigh Steinberg might have made the case in JANUARY to the Texans that VY by any measure should be the first pick in the draft and as worth giving up on Carr"
**************************
Oh it's now VYs agents fault that the Texans didn't draft him ? That's downright silly. Its the Texans fault, nobody elses that they held on to Carr and passed on VY. That kind of statement might make you the supreme apologists for the bumbling incompetence of the Texans in the 2006 Draft.
Now I'm not a big Reggie Bush fan - yet. But obviously he's looking much better than what we got so far. But to blame bad-timing (really another way of saying bad-luck), is also silly. Didn't seem to stop the Saints from quickly making the smart decision ? I think it has more to do with being overly prudent and too tentative and too risk aversive.
I have to wonder where the man was who effectively and decisively dealt with the shrewd and evil corporate bad guys like Ken Lay & Jeff Skilling at the former energy titan Enron when negotiating a sweet deal to cash out his Cogeneration business and become a billionaire in liquid terms ?
IMO that guy deserted Bob McNair big-time when he needed him most in terms of making the best decisions for his franchise during the 2006 NFL Draft.
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Old 07-22-2007   #23
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Default Re: Guess Mac really wanted VY

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Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
"An experienced agent, someone like a Leigh Steinberg might have made the case in JANUARY to the Texans that VY by any measure should be the first pick in the draft and as worth giving up on Carr"
**************************
Oh it's now VYs agents fault that the Texans didn't draft him ? That's downright silly. Its the Texans fault, nobody elses that they held on to Carr and passed on VY. That kind of statement might make you the supreme apologists for the bumbling incompetence of the Texans in the 2006 Draft.
Now I'm not a big Reggie Bush fan - yet. But obviously he's looking much better than what we got so far. But to blame bad-timing (really another way of saying bad-luck), is also silly. Didn't seem to stop the Saints from quickly making the smart decision ? I think it has more to do with being overly prudent and too tentative and too risk aversive.
I have to wonder where the man was who effectively and decisively dealt with the shrewd and evil corporate bad guys like Ken Lay & Jeff Skilling at the former energy titan Enron when negotiating a sweet deal to cash out his Cogeneration business and become a billionaire in liquid terms ?
IMO that guy deserted Bob McNair big-time when he needed him most in terms of making the best decisions for his franchise during the 2006 NFL Draft.
I'm tired of these assertions that it has been proven that the Texans made a mistake in 2006 by drafting Mario Williams. On the other hand, one of the areas of concern for Reggie Bush was validated when it was shown last season that he struggled to run between the Offensive Tackles. Critics of Mario Williams often point to his unimpressive statistics. Meanwhile, Vince Young was given nearly all the credit for the Titans success despite his pathetic statistics. And all of these conclusions are after only 1 season of performance to judge. I say, given time, we will all see how each of the top 3 picks of the 2006 draft really can perform.

As for the Saints, they tried to shop the 2nd Overal Draft pick to others just as the Texans had tried to shop the 1st and the Saints said the same thing that the Texans did, nobody made them an offer.

You have it backwards, drafting Reggie Bush would have been risk aversive. It takes real guts to draft someone you believe will make your team better that isn't the darling of the sports media. You look at the manner in which the Texans organization has been derided in the sports media since then and you're going to tell me they were risk aversive. Who took the bigger risk, the Texans or the Saints?
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Old 07-22-2007   #24
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Default Re: Guess Mac really wanted VY

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Originally Posted by BattleRedToro View Post
I'm tired of these assertions that it has been proven that the Texans made a mistake in 2006 by drafting Mario Williams. On the other hand, one of the areas of concern for Reggie Bush was validated when it was shown last season that he struggled to run between the Offensive Tackles. Critics of Mario Williams often point to his unimpressive statistics. Meanwhile, Vince Young was given nearly all the credit for the Titans success despite his pathetic statistics. And all of these conclusions are after only 1 season of performance to judge. I say, given time, we will all see how each of the top 3 picks of the 2006 draft really can perform.
As for the Saints, they tried to shop the 2nd Overal Draft pick to others just as the Texans had tried to shop the 1st and the Saints said the same thing that the Texans did, nobody made them an offer.
You have it backwards, drafting Reggie Bush would have been risk aversive. It takes real guts to draft someone you believe will make your team better that isn't the darling of the sports media. You look at the manner in which the Texans organization has been derided in the sports media since then and you're going to tell me they were risk aversive. Who took the bigger risk, the Texans or the Saints?
My comment about the Texans being risk aversive was in reference to allegations that the Texans balked at taking Bush because of issues involving his family and freebe rent from an agent. The truth is we may never know for sure what went down, but this is one of the more popular reported reasons for the Texans not taking Bush. I suppose its still possible they really preferred Mario ? I for one definitely dunno for sure ?
But what you say about Bush and his short comings is true, however what he could give us in terms of being a real 2nd home-run threat in addition to AJ and diverting some attention away from AJ as a slot-receiver would be very valuable to the team. But whether or not he becomes a "feature back" in the NFL is still very much an open question, you're right. But so far based on early returns, he and VY certainly have done better in this league than Mario.
But I hope Mario proves me wrong with a blazing sophomore year ! Please, please Mario make us all feel good about drafting you #1 in 2006. And its certainly far from being too late for him to demonstrate his potential as a premiere defensive player in this league.
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Old 07-22-2007   #25
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Default Re: Guess Mac really wanted VY

#1 Mario was the top defensive player in the draft and our defense stunk due to a lack of talent.
#2 If the Texans would have taken Bush or Young we would have had over 60m spent on the offensive side of the ball and 25m wrapped up in three skill positon players - Carr, AJ and Bush or VY - on a 102m cap. Talk about being out of balance and not recognizing your weaknesses with a long term fiscal strategy.

Since the 2006 draft only one team has won the Super Bowl and the Texans, Saints and Titans were not that team. However, the Texans were the last team to beat the Super Bowl Champions which Mario had an impact on that game.

The draft was not about Mario. The draft was about getting better in the long term.

Impatience is a core competency for losers in my opinion.
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Old 07-22-2007   #26
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Default Re: Guess Mac really wanted VY

Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
"An experienced agent, someone like a Leigh Steinberg might have made the case in JANUARY to the Texans that VY by any measure should be the first pick in the draft and as worth giving up on Carr"
**************************
Oh it's now VYs agents fault that the Texans didn't draft him ? That's downright silly. Its the Texans fault, nobody elses that they held on to Carr and passed on VY. That kind of statement might make you the supreme apologists for the bumbling incompetence of the Texans in the 2006 Draft.
Now I'm not a big Reggie Bush fan - yet. But obviously he's looking much better than what we got so far. But to blame bad-timing (really another way of saying bad-luck), is also silly. Didn't seem to stop the Saints from quickly making the smart decision ? I think it has more to do with being overly prudent and too tentative and too risk aversive.
I have to wonder where the man was who effectively and decisively dealt with the shrewd and evil corporate bad guys like Ken Lay & Jeff Skilling at the former energy titan Enron when negotiating a sweet deal to cash out his Cogeneration business and become a billionaire in liquid terms ?
IMO that guy deserted Bob McNair big-time when he needed him most in terms of making the best decisions for his franchise during the 2006 NFL Draft.

I think the only thing you can blame the Texans for at this point is totally bungling the PR aspects of the 2006 draft and putting Mario Williams in a rich but horrible spot. No one knew any information about him, and to date, I am the only one on the planet who wrote anything in depth about his background and skills coming out of school. That reflects the trend toward dogpile journalism. The Chronicle and most of the fanbase was blindsided by the choice, and chose to slam him as a bust before he played a down.

The 2006 draft was completely mishandled in that regard. To me, it is too early to evaluate the players themselves.

I do not blame VY and his agent for the Texans not picking him. It's a factor that didn't help. I really really wanted the Texans to pick VY but I also knew that it would have been a wildly unconventional football move to take VY as the #1 QB. Remember, at the time, most people thought that he would just be a great hometown hero--there was no football people advocating that he should be the #1 pick in the draft. I was saying that I thought he was the BPA, but nobody consults with me. He needed an agent to bust the Texans doors down in January and make the case that VY was the BPA because there was an uphill battle to get rid of Carr--in January, VY's agent was more interested in getting $200 autographs signed at the Co-op.

(It also didn't help that Mike Vick had a down year that year. The NFL is a league of copy cats, and people were comparing VY to Vick, a comparison that I think is not accurate. Had Vick had a huge year, more people would have been advocating for VY).

I'm just saying that had he had better representation to advocate on his behalf immediately, he mighta had a chance to make the case that the Texans should do the wildly unconventional thing and chuck Carr and decide to go with a QB that some observers thought was the 3rd best QB coming out in 2006 and basically show their hand in February that they are not going with Bush.

The Texans picked up Carr's option right away, and got Carr working with Kubiak right away. To put VY's contract on top of that would have been crazy. And if we canned Carr in February, VY and his inexperienced agent would have impossibly big leverage over the team. Even before the combine and workouts and interviews. You would have to pick VY. I know a lot about negotiating deals, and that's about as much leverage as you could possibly have. No QBs on the roster and home town hero knows he has to be picked #1.

Call me an apologist, but it truly was the perfect storm of badness. I watched it as it was happening like a train wreck. Titans with the third pick and all.
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Old 07-22-2007   #27
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Default Re: Guess Mac really wanted VY

I think that it was possible that the Texans didn't really wanted VY as the face of the team, perhaps lack of poise, maturity, professionalism or any number of things. It is possible that the organization knew by draft time that David Carr wasn't the answer, but to not have to answer for passing over VY, they signed Carr, knowing that would minimize the outcry, wait a year, then select their quarterback.
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Old 07-22-2007   #28
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Default Re: Guess Mac really wanted VY

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I think that it was possible that the Texans didn't really wanted VY as the face of the team, perhaps lack of poise, maturity, professionalism or any number of things. It is possible that the organization knew by draft time that David Carr wasn't the answer, but to not have to answer for passing over VY, they signed Carr, knowing that would minimize the outcry, wait a year, then select their quarterback.
So..... conspiracy?
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Old 07-22-2007   #29
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Default Re: Guess Mac really wanted VY

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So..... conspiracy?

No, business.
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Old 07-22-2007   #30
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Default Re: Guess Mac really wanted VY

Oh lord.... I just found it humorous that Mac pulled out of his advertising, yes understand about the free market. Didn't mean to bring up (another) "who they should've drafted debate.
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Old 07-22-2007   #31
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Default Re: Guess Mac really wanted VY

I think we screwed up royally not taking Ryans #1.
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Old 07-22-2007   #32
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Default Re: Guess Mac really wanted VY

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I think we screwed up royally not taking Ryans #1.
other than press coverage, does it actually matter?
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Old 07-22-2007   #33
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Default Re: Guess Mac really wanted VY

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other than press coverage, does it actually matter?
That's kinda my point. We had a great draft. No doubt about it. How Williams compares to Young and Bush in the long run is only part of it. We will remember the 2006 draft as a big part of what got us going in the right direction.

I didn't want Williams #1 either, but I always did see him as a top 5 pick. So, even if he doesn't give us more than Bush or Young would've, he will probably do much, much more than we've seen so far. Furthermore, that draft throws in Ryans, Spencer, Winston, Daniels, and Lundy. The future is getting bright.
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