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Old 03-22-2007   #21
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Default Re: Vikings disinterest in Carr

well even if this is true that still leaves oakland (probably the favorite for carr) and miami...i think miami probably offers the best chance for carr to succeed...plus who could turn down living in miami for a few years?...but oakland is probably where carr wants to go
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Old 03-22-2007   #22
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Default Re: Vikings disinterest in Carr

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
have you ever tried to throw a deep ball sidearm or semi side arm? Try it sometime and come back and tell me how much harder it is than to throw it from your ear, over the top. Heck, just sit at your desk and put your arm thru the motions. It's awkward at best.
yeah but throwing motion isn't everything...you'd probably have a hard time convencing many that vince young will not be a good QB because of his side-arm release...being a good QB is more than just the tangibles and the mechanics...it's leading a team...we'll have to see if our boy schaub can do that full-time...right now i'm all for him though...if he needs a good caddie just call me up
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Old 03-22-2007   #23
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Default Re: Vikings disinterest in Carr

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
have you ever tried to throw a deep ball sidearm or semi side arm? Try it sometime and come back and tell me how much harder it is than to throw it from your ear, over the top. Heck, just sit at your desk and put your arm thru the motions. It's awkward at best.
Actually Vinny, I always had more power sidearm, but better accuracy with an overhand release. I've always been pretty accurate, and have had a fairly strong arm, but there isn't much call for a QB that barely stands 5'-10", and on a good day runs a 5 flat forty.
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Old 03-22-2007   #24
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Default Re: Vikings disinterest in Carr

The only release I care about with Carr is the one he will be getting from the Texans very soon.


I don't see any way someone is going to take his contract when the guy is backup material in this league. I said it earlier today, and I stand by it. He will be released, not traded. There is no market for this guy at the current contract price, and there are going to be a lot of disillusioned fans who think he is garbage here, but everyone else loves him. Simply not true, and totally illogical.
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Old 03-22-2007   #25
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Default Re: Vikings disinterest in Carr

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
maybe with a baseball...but with a football? Side arming a football over a long distance isn't easy unless you hitch up your left shoulder and contort your body...its a huge tell, and it's just not near as easy as flicking a ball from your ear hole. All the guys listed above are more overhand or have a variation of their side arm that is more over the top for their deeper balls. Carr throws a miserable deep ball compared to all of them.
Yes, with a football, but not a true sidearm...more of a 3/4. With a baseball, I threw overhand better from the outfield. It was just a more natural motion when doing the crow-hop and throwing home from the outfield. I never was much of a pitcher, but I had more snap on the ball while throwing from the mound if I threw sidearm or sub-marined it.
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Old 03-22-2007   #26
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Default Re: Vikings disinterest in Carr

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
You can snap a baseball sidearm with great velocity using body torque...you can't do that with a football and get good air plus velocity on a long pass....hurts my shoulder to try it.
I think I know what my body can do.
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Old 03-22-2007   #27
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Default Re: Vikings disinterest in Carr

Hey look! The Carr Lovers are rewriting the laws of physics.....what WONT they do for the guy.
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Old 03-22-2007   #28
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Default Re: Vikings disinterest in Carr

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
Heck, just sit at your desk and put your arm thru the motions. It's awkward at best.
Oh the subliminal, unconscious thoughts that creep into one's posts... are we as Texans fans trained to think that a QB should be throwing while in the seated position all the time?
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Old 03-22-2007   #29
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Default Re: Vikings disinterest in Carr

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
have you ever tried to throw a deep ball sidearm or semi side arm? Try it sometime and come back and tell me how much harder it is than to throw it from your ear, over the top. Heck, just sit at your desk and put your arm thru the motions. It's awkward at best.
yeah, but that's me.

I have seen Kosar and Young nail those deep outs with accuracy and velocity. I bet I have seen Stabler do it too, I just don't remember or recall one right off of the top of my head. Let me look for one.
http://www.superbowl.com/video
there's at least two in that SB XI clip

I just got through watching a few clips of Rivers ( just college ). While it looked like most of the deeper balls where not of his signature sidearm, I did see him nail a few mid range outs with the sidearm delivery. A bit like Stabler.

Really there are a bunch of schools of thought in QB mechanics. Some coaches like the body throwers over the arm throwers.

just grabbing some stuff off of the web
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John from Napa, CA: Does it look to you like Eli Manning is a duck-and-cover thrower? Many times I've seen him throw off his back foot and immediately spin around to turn his back to the pass-rush.
Vic: I saw it in the Denver game earlier in the season. I immediately thought to myself, you got a big problem with your quarterback, Tom. Chuck-and-duck is ugly. Everybody knows what it means. Bad mechanics? A lot of quarterbacks have been successful with bad releases and throwing motions. Sonny Jurgensen, Bernie Kosar and Ken Stabler threw sidearm. Vince Young is the hottest prospect in football and Ive never seen a worse throwing motion. Ive only known one quarterback, however, who made chuck-and-duck work; Brett Favre.
I forgot about Jurgensen. Baugh and Theisman threw with a bit side arm too.

that's too many succesful QBs with a sidearm throw over a too long of a period for me to say it is a big problem in a passing game.
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Old 03-22-2007   #30
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Default Re: Vikings disinterest in Carr

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If you are trying this at home, please go outside, and by all means, stand up. I forgot that we live in a society that needs warning stickers on their coffee telling them that it is hot.
Thanks for the PSA. Carr seemed to think that he needed to be seated to throw most the time.
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Old 03-22-2007   #31
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Default Re: Vikings disinterest in Carr

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
Ok, I guess your shoulder has some amazing abilities that mine doesn't possess. You rock on.
I guess so, and since you were a power lifter, you have trained your body to use different muscles. When you do something for a long time, your body gets used to it, and the muscles that are used for that activity are built up. Just because I can do something different than you is know reason for you to be condescending. Just because I can't do the splits doesn't mean that it can't be done. Get over yourself.
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Old 03-22-2007   #32
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Default Re: Vikings disinterest in Carr

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Hey look! The Carr Lovers are rewriting the laws of physics.....what WONT they do for the guy.
I don't think I am trying to re-write laws here.

I am saying that the mechanics aren't necessarily the problem with poor range or strength. It can be other things. Nor am I saying that Carr has a good midrange throw. I am saying the mechanics don't condem a QB to a poor passing game.
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Old 03-22-2007   #33
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Default Re: Vikings disinterest in Carr

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good lord...Show me where I say that you CAN'T make it as an NFL QB if you don't have a perfect release. I just made a statement that is is much harder to have a good deep ball when you drop down...and Carr struggles with deep and intermediate passes. I think that much is a fact, regardless of how much you Carr fan boys want to deny it. Perhaps he will have to be released one day for you guys to figure out that he can only throw short passes well.
Well... I was actually kicking into this thread off of what Childress said, not what you said. Childress didn't think he could make all of the throws.

which I think is true, but that doesn't mean it has anything to do with the sidearm delivery or the mechanics of Carr's delivery. Meaning Carr could be throwing like Bradshaw and still have a poor midrange pass.
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Old 03-22-2007   #34
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Default Re: Vikings disinterest in Carr

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
good lord...Show me where I say that you CAN'T make it as an NFL QB if you don't have a perfect release. I just made a statement that is is much harder to have a good deep ball when you drop down...and Carr struggles with deep and intermediate passes. I think that much is a fact, regardless of how much you Carr fan boys want to deny it. Perhaps he will have to be released one day for you guys to figure out that he can only throw short passes well.
That's ripe...Vinny you were bashing me in the first year when I tried to point out Carr's obvious problems. When you finally realized it for yourself, you tried to act like you had always thought like that. I have said since the very first year that Carr had so much potential, but until he learns to do the things that good QB's do, he will never be successful. As for Carr not being able to throw a good deep ball with his sidearm motion, you seem to forget the throw Carr made to Jermaine Lewis in the very first game against the Cowboys. Lewis dropped the ball, but Carr threw it on a rope for 60 yards, and he threw it with his sidearm motion. It wasn't until they tried to make him put more air under the ball that he lost his command of the deep ball. If you will remember, Carr always threw the ball too hard, and his WR's couldn't hold onto it.
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Old 03-22-2007   #35
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Default Re: Vikings disinterest in Carr

I'm the #1 carr hater on this board and yesterday was the greatest day this board has ever witnessed. I feel I did my part in running this bum out of town. I always knew he was garbage and I have been proven correct.

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Old 03-22-2007   #36
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Default Re: Vikings disinterest in Carr

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I call HUGE BS on this one. I've questioned Carr since 2003...and everyone called me a knee jerk then,.

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/fo...?threadid=2319

I posted this thread 4 years ago.
yeah Vinny, I remember reading that, I thought about calling you a hypocrite then. Too bad we can't pull up posts from this board from 2002. By the time you posted that thread, I had already been saying those things for a year. I had already gotten to the point by that time that I decided that I wouldn't even say anything to you.
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Old 03-22-2007   #37
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Default Re: Vikings disinterest in Carr

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Well, make that 30 teams that want him now.

just a thought - I don't think the Steelers want him either

better make that 29 teams
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Old 03-22-2007   #38
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Default Re: Vikings disinterest in Carr

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lol, That wasn't my first post questioning Carr, just the one that got the most attention and fed into most of our fan base calling me crazy and a hater. I can give you more examples but you can look them up yourself. There are not too many posts where I say I'm loving Carrs game back in 02.
I know that wasn't your first time questioning Carr. As a matter of fact, I had said something about Carr on this board about midway though the first season, and gotten bashed by you, only to find you write basically the same thing on hpf the next week.

like I said way back then...you aren't worth it...I'm done.
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Old 03-22-2007   #39
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Default Re: Vikings disinterest in Carr

Gotta love a "I said he sucked first" thread.
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Old 03-22-2007   #40
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Default Re: Vikings disinterest in Carr

Now you're a dumb, crazy, hypocrite hater. See how you are man.

I've changed positions on a lot of things over time and probably forgot to give credit to the "pioneers" in the field of Carr-hating when I changed my position too.

Anyone worrying that much about who spotted the problem with David Carr needs to let go of some of that inner rage (in a healthy way of course). If I'd decided to not say anything about someone years ago I'd be damned if I'd then throw it out there along with the (implied) admission that it had been bothering me for almost half a decade.
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