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Old 03-20-2007   #21
Luv Ya Blue 2007
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Thumbs down Re: Double Trade Down

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
what if Peterson is available come draft day @ #8?

I would have no problem taking him, but think of the offers?

Buffalo (12th) seems logical, we pick up an extra 3rd and move down only 4 spots. players who could be available are Okoye, Branch, Nelson, Carriker & Houston to name a few. plenty of prospects who could improve the Texans right?

Maybe a team like the Jaguars really want Reggie Nelson & know Carolina loves Nelson @ #14, FS being a huge need for all three teams & offer us their 1st rd. pick (17th) & 2nd rd. pick (48th) to get him?

so now the Texans are on the clock (17th) they have passed on Adrian Peterson (#8) & Reggie Nelson (#12) but have aquired two extra picks (#48 & #74).

for sheer fun I'll go ahead Mock this out & see what you think

#17 Darrelle Revis, CB Pitt 5114 204 4.38
#39 Charles Johnson, DE Georgia 6020 270 4.84
#48 Anthony Gonzalez, WR Ohio State 6000 193 4.44
#73 Eric Weddle, S Utah 5112 203 4.48
#74 Kevin Kolb, QB Houston 6031 218 4.85
#104 James Marten, OT Boston College 6074 309 5.08
#135 Doug Datish, C Ohio State 6041 302 5.13
#169 Kevin Boss, TE Western Oregon 6064 252 4.78
#200 Keith Jackson, DT Arkansas 6002 305 5.05

extra picks highlighted in bold
Ok Beerlover, let me ask you this. Is Darrelle Revis, Anthony Gonzalez and Kevin Kolb worth Adrian Peterson? I think not. No team in the NFL would take that trade if it were proposed to them. Therefore, you have answered your own question. Was it worth trading back and passing on a Franchise RB prospect?

Any answer other than NOWAY is incorrect, regardless of the A. Green signing.
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Old 03-20-2007   #22
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Thumbs down Re: Double Trade Down

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
in mind this is only a starting point (gotta start somewhere) the possiblities are seemingly endless. the point is the Texans have alot of needs so it begs the question do you try & address as many needs as possible via the draft & build your core team with picks or have the confidence to put all your eggs in one basket so to speak.

I'm not afraid to take Peterson, Landry or Levi Brown with the 8th pick. all I'm trying to demonstrate are the dynamics of using the draft to add value to the picks. as you can see it allows you to address mutliple positions of need, maybe not with the best @ each position but as upgrades over what we currently have on the active roster.

by trading down you actually can still address those positions (lesser talent) plus in this case your future franchise QB & #2 WR. not sure if its worth it but something to think about
Beerlover,
We used a #1 pick overall to try and get a future franchise qb. This is like playing craps on a cruise ship where the odds are extremely stacked against us. Secondly, we can add Gonzalez type talent in the second or the third. Excluding the #17 pick, I see no real improvement to the team, but only a crap shoot for a possible starting qb. Man when you have talent like AD you take it and let him run with it. Have you not yet heard the saying "it's better to have one bird in hand than two in the bush". Enough of this, I understand your point, but it's ludicrus.
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Old 03-20-2007   #23
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Default Re: Double Trade Down

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
I really can't understand the Jamaal Anderson hype machine, why just tonight (NFL network path to the draft) was listed as one of the players who was "sliding" & I don't mean up the draft boards. he has a real narrow frame & has put on about 15 pounds or so from his ideal playing weight. I'd take Carriker anyday & you don't need to spend a top 10 pick to get him
The guy is actually the 2nd biggest DE in the draft. If you watch any film on the guy, you'd see that he's the real deal. The biggest knock on him is that he made a name for himself in one year...ok, so what? He showed up every game he had the opportunity to play and had 14.5 sacks playing in the SEC. The hype is because he has tons of room for growth but already has tons of football instincts. Just about every team in the draft would like a 6'6" 285 athletic, pass rushing, run stopping, sack machine bookend. Think of how feared our Dline would be.....

Jamaal Anderson----Anthony Weaver----Travis Johnson-----Mario Williams

Ok, so Johnson kinda screws that up but that is as solid as a Dline will get.
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Old 03-20-2007   #24
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Default Re: Double Trade Down

I think it more be likely

Anderson / Weaver / Maddox / Williams


But to the original poster. I like it all except Kolb. I don't think he's a franchise QB nor do I think this draft has a franchise QB. That and we have to have a legit o-line first.... unless we want another Carr.

So I'd substitute the second 3rd round pick with:

Rufus Alexander / Buster Davis / Desmond Bishop
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Old 03-21-2007   #25
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Default Re: Double Trade Down

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Originally Posted by Luv Ya Blue 2007 View Post
Ok Beerlover, let me ask you this. Is Darrelle Revis, Anthony Gonzalez and Kevin Kolb worth Adrian Peterson? I think not. No team in the NFL would take that trade if it were proposed to them. Therefore, you have answered your own question. Was it worth trading back and passing on a Franchise RB prospect?

Any answer other than NOWAY is incorrect, regardless of the A. Green signing.
opinions are like *******s everyones got one right

pick who you want with those three, count them three extra picks for one

I've even seen you start another post http://forums.houstontexans.com/show...767#post632767 to address this post & your concerned about what happens if one or more of these guys gets hurt
Quote:
Keep in mind this is the NFL and these guys fly around crashing into each other and injuries are a part of the game.
the same could happen to Adrian Peterson or whoever the Texans would select & #8 then you have nothing. at least this way if one goes down because of injury you still have two guys producing.

What was I thinking like the Texans need to improve the overall talent with good young prospects on both sides of the ball focusing on positions like QB, DE, CB, OT that are either too expensive via free agency or unavailable period, guess til hell freezes over huh
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Old 03-21-2007   #26
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Default Re: Double Trade Down

and another thing -
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Originally Posted by YoungTexanFan View Post
Kolb is a joke for this team and people need to get off their stinkin man crushes and move along. Gonzo is nothing special in a deep WR class. If you wanted to go WR in the second, you might as well get a real talent like Meachem or Rice or Bowe...one will fall.
ytf- you of all people should know, should know. that Meachem/Rice/Bowe are all 1st rd. picks, cmon dude you know the draft too well to even suggest they'll be around in the 2nd. if I where to PROJECT them to be available at least in my own draft mind would lose all creds cause thats just not realistic. do you have something against Gonzalez? he is a great route runner, goes over the middle & will make the catch in traffic, has a great pair of hands, very good to excellent speed especially on cuts, has played in a pro-style system under Weis so is well schooled in blocking etc...also good character & plays without needing the spotlight or attention of a #1. remember his job is to support Andre Johnson, nothing more nothing less.

ytf- can't let you get away with the "man crush" Kolb remarks. we all have em, I suspect Luv Ya Blue 2007 "man-crush" is Adrian Peterson, your "man-crush" among others is Jared Gaither, mine is not Kolb you should know that too (its Levi Brown) yet I'm able to consider other options & not yeild to my own wants or desires. what exactly is it that you don't like Kolb? if the Texans had a pair of 3rd picks & Kolb is there I don't think it takes a huge stretch of imagination that Kubiak might consider Kolb. I've actually watched him in person & I thought he threw with accuracy, strength, moved around the pocket well & ran the offense which is a key to Kubiaks style- he likes QB's who grasp the offense, a system QB if you will that can make plays on occassion but also run the plays called effectively & the way Gary invisioned.

just be realistic & make your own picks, thats what your good at

#17 Darrelle Revis, CB Pitt 5114 204 4.38
#17
#39 Charles Johnson, DE Georgia 6020 270 4.84
#39
#48 Anthony Gonzalez, WR Ohio State 6000 193 4.44
#48
#73 Eric Weddle, S Utah 5112 203 4.48
#73
#74 Kevin Kolb, QB Houston 6031 218 4.85
#74
#104 James Marten, OT Boston College 6074 309 5.08
#104
#135 Doug Datish, C Ohio State 6041 302 5.13
#135
#169 Kevin Boss, TE Western Oregon 6064 252 4.78
#169
#200 Keith Jackson, DT Arkansas 6002 305 5.05
#200
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Old 03-21-2007   #27
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Default Re: Double Trade Down

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Originally Posted by HomeBred_Texan View Post
Here are my thoughts, and as an old guy, I always look ahead. This year we do not even address the QB situation. That will be addressed in next year's draft when some premier guys come out. Out of the 5 college QB's next year, let's say 3 will be busts. So that leaves us a chance to get 1 of the 2 premier guys needed. This year's need is a franchise RB, hence Adrian Peterson if available. We do not need Brown, we have Spencer. We do however have to address the CB and Safety position in this draft as well as find a diamond in the rough WR to compliment AJ. Another OL wouldn't hurt either, but not with a first round pick.

Last year we saw many good players falling into the 2nd and 3rd rounds. It will also happen this year with defensive players. We will find some more gems like Ryans again. I have faith in the Texans now and know they will do the right thing. But trading down instead of taking a gem like Peterson is just ignorance.... IMHO


OK I highlighted two things I have a serious issue with. First with we do not need Brown we have Spencer. By the way he is hurt and you can not take a gamble (ala charlie) and wait and see if Boselli ..... errr I mean Spencer gets healthy. No real rushing game except for two games last year giving up more sacks in the last few years than almost any team and yet we do not need to draft O-Lineman.

Now on to waiting for a franchise QB in nexts years draft? I am just curious what franchise QB are you referring to? Brohm? Brennen? Booty? I guess you are expecting the Texans to be worse next year not better because generally these so called franchise QB go in the top 10 and I do not think the Texans will be drafting there, so they will have to give up all there picks to move up.

You want CB and Safety and a WR, which I am not oppssed to but at the same time I have no delusions that the Texans are set in the trenches on either side of the ball. Until that happens they will be going no where in a playoff push.
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Old 03-21-2007   #28
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Default Re: Double Trade Down

[quote=Specnatz;632872] First with we do not need Brown we have Spencer. By the way he is hurt and you can not take a gamble (ala charlie) and wait and see if Boselli ..... errr I mean Spencer gets healthy. No real rushing game except for two games last year giving up more sacks in the last few years than almost any team and yet we do not need to draft O-Lineman. QUOTE]


Dude.. I think you need to apologize to Spencer. That is quite unfair to compare him to Boselli, and he has worked his tail off coming off a possible CAREER ENDING injury to come back to us. Your comments are insulting and uncalledfor to Spencer in what your implying and I dont appreciate it. He didnt have a FULL career like Boselli had before injury, but might have to settle for 1/50th of the money he could of made playing for this team if its over. I, as a Texan fan, turn my back on you.
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Old 03-21-2007   #29
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Default Re: Double Trade Down

I think you are reading way to much into what I am saying. Spencer is hurt and we all hope he comes back and be able to play at the same high level. Neither Spencer or Boselli are bad guys, injuries are a part of football, but the Texans should not sit on there hands and hope and pray for the best. That is what I was referring to, that is exactly what casserly did.

You think I am putting a player down, then you are flat out wrong.
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Old 03-21-2007   #30
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Default Re: Double Trade Down

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I think you are reading way to much into what I am saying. Spencer is hurt and we all hope he comes back and be able to play at the same high level. Neither Spencer or Boselli are bad guys, injuries are a part of football, but the Texans should not sit on there hands and hope and pray for the best. That is what I was referring to, that is exactly what casserly did.

You think I am putting a player down, then you are flat out wrong.
From the way I am reading it, you stated he could be another Boselli which didnt not contribute anything to the team. Boselli tried but turn out to be unable to come back, thus ending his Career with us. Spencer, however, is a new kid who got hurt with a injury before he could get started. Saying or comparing him to Boselli now is pre-mature, and showing we have already given up to this kid on him coming back isnt right either.

There are a few people around here when they say Boselli, they are meaning 'the costly error we kept Boselli for, paying him top dollar to ride the bench'. From your statement above, I was given the impression you were saying the same thing about Spencer. If that was not what you were trying to convey, then I am sorry for my comment.
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Old 03-21-2007   #31
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Default Re: Double Trade Down

No I am just saying that it is very risky to have a wait and see attitude and not getting another lineman in round one or two. And if Spencer comes back and can play great now he can play LT or RT and move Winston to Guard or whatever.

All I am saying not getting a lineman until round 4 or whatever is a huge mistake, and not hedging your bets when it comes to injuries is a huge mistake. The Texans waited on DD .... errr ... DW and nothing really developed until the last few games of the season.

He who hesitates is lost.
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Old 03-21-2007   #32
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Default Re: Double Trade Down

#17 Darrelle Revis, CB, Pitt
#39 Ryan Kalil, C, USC
#48 Brandon Merriweather, FS, Miami
#73 Aundrae Allison, WR, East Carolina
#74 Kevin Kolb, QB, Houston

4th Michael Bush?/ Chris Henry
5th Daniel Sepuldeva

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Old 03-21-2007   #33
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Default Re: Double Trade Down

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Originally Posted by Specnatz View Post
No I am just saying that it is very risky to have a wait and see attitude and not getting another lineman in round one or two. And if Spencer comes back and can play great now he can play LT or RT and move Winston to Guard or whatever.

All I am saying not getting a lineman until round 4 or whatever is a huge mistake, and not hedging your bets when it comes to injuries is a huge mistake. The Texans waited on DD .... errr ... DW and nothing really developed until the last few games of the season.

He who hesitates is lost.

Ahh... but good things come to those who wait. I dont think Kub and Rick will wait till the 4th round for a lineman, but they had decent luck last year waiting till the 3rd, and then picking up to good ones. I think Spencer will be back in his prime, and I would be willing to bet Kub is really going to evaluate it even before we draft in case it impacts his drafting stradegy (sp-brain aint working today).
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Old 03-21-2007   #34
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Default Re: Double Trade Down

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#17 Darrelle Revis, CB, Pitt
#39 Ryan Kalil, C, USC
#48 Brandon Merriweather, FS, Miami
#73 Aundrae Allison, WR, East Carolina
#74 Kevin Kolb, QB, Houston

4th Michael Bush?/ Chris Henry
5th Daniel Sepuldeva

nice

do you really project Merriweather available @ #48 or are you just being wishfull?
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Old 03-21-2007   #35
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Default Re: Double Trade Down

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Originally Posted by Luv Ya Blue 2007 View Post
Ok Beerlover, let me ask you this. Is Darrelle Revis, Anthony Gonzalez and Kevin Kolb worth Adrian Peterson? I think not. No team in the NFL would take that trade if it were proposed to them. Therefore, you have answered your own question. Was it worth trading back and passing on a Franchise RB prospect?

Any answer other than NOWAY is incorrect, regardless of the A. Green signing.
Answer Way !

Very nice thread beerlover. rep your way.

IF .....

the texan's are going to turn their nose at the second rated OLT prospect yet again....I could live with this aproach. Infuse the over all rooster with speed and tallent. This is the correct draft to do it in. Plenty of speed all though the positions especailly at DB and WR.

I do not like Sidney Rice at all. You guys went balistic in your anger over Gaffney and Bradford's production. You're going to have a melt down over Rice. He is very, very raw and is no where near ready to go against front line NFL tallent. Agreed, Gonzales makes more sense for a number two prospect. He is the safer pick.
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Old 03-21-2007   #36
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Default Re: Double Trade Down

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nice

do you really project Merriweather available @ #48 or are you just being wishfull?
mostly wishful but you never know...eric winston? (different situation but still)..if dallas sign hamlin that should drop nelson a couple places maybe which could also affect merriweather

both with the decent talent at the top of the 2nd and how teams sometimes ignore guys with perceived character issues..our lack of secondary moves in FA may suggest we might be taking a look on day1
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Old 03-21-2007   #37
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Default Re: Double Trade Down

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mostly wishful but you never know...eric winston? (different situation but still)..if dallas sign hamlin that should drop nelson a couple places maybe which could also affect merriweather

both with the decent talent at the top of the 2nd and how teams sometimes ignore guys with perceived character issues..our lack of secondary moves in FA may suggest we might be taking a look on day1
I see, higher probablity of course @ #39 & I was not going to project Kalil being there (I've seen him projected as high as #24).

while I like Merriweather @ #39 I like Charles Johnson even more. gives Mario another bookend & they would be interchangeable, meaning both can play strong side or weakside. I think he did 33 reps, ran a 4.68 forty & plays with a nasty streak, likes contact & gets under would be blockers pads & don't forget I used the 3rd rd. pick on a FS Eric Weddle

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Old 03-21-2007   #38
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Default Re: Double Trade Down

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No I am just saying that it is very risky to have a wait and see attitude and not getting another lineman in round one or two. And if Spencer comes back and can play great now he can play LT or RT and move Winston to Guard or whatever.

All I am saying not getting a lineman until round 4 or whatever is a huge mistake, and not hedging your bets when it comes to injuries is a huge mistake. The Texans waited on DD .... errr ... DW and nothing really developed until the last few games of the season.

He who hesitates is lost.
That's what I've been thinking since Spencer went down. What is so wrong about having two top flight young OTs ? IF Spencer makes it back, whoever the QB is, gives the Texans some prety good options in the future. Seems like there's a franchise back in every draft. Can't say the same about OTs. They don't, the good ones anyway, grow on trees and teams do not let them walk off. It's been a problem since day one. We're in a position to solve that problem...fix it. Seems pretty simple to me. What's so wrong with open compitition in the '08 off season between Winston, Spencer and Levi Brown ?
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Old 03-21-2007   #39
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Default Re: Double Trade Down

Quote:
Originally Posted by threetoedpete View Post
That's what I've been thinking since Spencer went down. What is so wrong about having two top flight young OTs ? IF Spencer makes it back, whoever the QB is, gives the Texans some prety good options in the future. Seems like there's a franchise back in every draft. Can't say the same about OTs. They don't, the good ones anyway, grow on trees and teams do not let them walk off. It's been a problem since day one. We're in a position to solve that problem...fix it. Seems pretty simple to me. What's so wrong with open compitition in the '08 off season between Winston, Spencer and Levi Brown ?
you'll get no arguement from me

but I'm getting prepared for anything, hence this maximize picks double trade down scenero

I could live with addressing the offensive line in the later rounds provided we have the extra picks & can address most of the Texans vital needs. I've presented a way it could be possible to get a lockdown cb, pass rushing de, #2 wr, starting fs, developmental qb, developmental ot/c, sleeper te & more meat in the middle of the defensive line as realisticly as hell freezes over
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Old 03-21-2007   #40
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Default Re: Double Trade Down

goodby Charles Johnson see where you end up getting drafted
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