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Old 03-24-2006   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tulexan
You don't fill major needs through the draft. You fill them with veterans. If we didn't sign Weaver you would have a case, but we signed him to a pretty big contract and I don't see us drafting Mario Williams so that we can move Weaver to the inside, which will give us even more DTs, or have Weaver and Williams both as the DEs and having Peek and Babin sitting on the sidelines for most of the game.

You also can't fix both sides of the team in one season. I expect us to fix the offense this year and the defense next year.

Whether you like it or not, Bush is going to be our pick.
Whether you like it or not it is not a done deal that we are drafting Bush, any NFL bean counter can tell you that. As it stands right now our cap for the offense in 2006 will be $45,851,108. While our defense will be $35,747,332.

This does not include the Flanagan signing nor does it include Special Teams or dead cap. The numbers were taken off of HPF's cap estimate for the top 51player's contracts.
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap.html

We are top heavy on offense which will amount to a ~12 million delta. There is not much wiggle room (savings) with the contracts on the offensive side of the ball, that are expiring after the 2006 season, to get any credible goodness for cap implications. Yes Wade is there, signed through 2009, but has prorated bonus in 2006 of $1,673,387 and 2007. I can only assume that 2008 and 2009 will carry that proartion as well, which means if we cut him we would have $6,693,548 more in dead money. Surely a June cut would lessen the blow for accounting on the 2006 cap, but there is big pain already in 2007with Walker's dead cap of $5,499,999. I do not see us cutting Wade, unless we have a bunch of renegotiating going on with multiple players.

Back to the point at hand adding an RB with the #1 pick would make that delta jump to 20 million dollars and we will not be able to spend money on the worst defense in the league for years. We must address the defense!
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Old 03-24-2006   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightymike
we don't draft a center and leave flanagan to groom hodgon for future?
helps our draft out alot, not to mention the team
I thiink Enslinger would still be worth consideration in the 3rd. Flanagan can't play forever and has been injured. Enslinger is the 2nd best center in this draft, has 4 yrs experience in the zone blocking system, and is being compared to Nalen, whom most were hoping Kubiak would bring with him from Denver. He may not be worth a pick in the 3rd, depending on who else is available (FS or MLB), but if he's there in the 4th I don't think he could be passed on.
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Old 03-24-2006   #43
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Originally Posted by Runner
Fixing the the defense and drafting Bush aren't mutually exclusive. We can draft defense in the 2-4 rounds and possibly find a couple of players that would upgrade our weakest positions. It's much easier for rookies on defense to make an impact than on offense.
True.
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Old 03-24-2006   #44
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Originally Posted by thunderkyss
Just out of curiousity, How'd you do in the 2004 draft?? did you get 7 out of 7 picks right?? 5 out 7 positions(LB, OL, RB) picked right?? 0 for 7??
thanks for making me dig out my notes and re-hash that mess, don't you remember the Texans gave up the top pick in the 2nd rd. using it in the supplemental draft (Tony Hollings- I would never have traded that pick for a inexperienced rb coming off acl reconstructive surgery) then about three picks to trade up for Babin, yeah I guess you got me there... 0 for 13

my Mock went something like this-

10 - Tommie Harris DT Oklahoma

33 - too late done deal with Hollings, would have loved to take Bob Sanders, SS Iowa

40 - Michael Bowlware OLB Florida State

71 - Matt Starks OT Florida

103 - Nathan Vasher CB Texas

122 - Johnnie Morant WR Syracuse

138- Nathaniel Adibi OLB Virgina Tech

170 - Cody Spencer ILB Texas

175 - Josh Sewell C Nebraska

200 - Tony Pape G Michigan

210 - Isaac Hilton DE Hampton

211 - Matt Mauck QB Louisiana State

248 - Carlos Joseph OT Miami


as oppossed to what the Texans actually ended up with, win some lose some-
http://www.houstontexans.com/history...time_draft.php
2004

Round 1: CB Dunta Robinson (South Carolina, 10); DE Jason Babin (Western Michigan, 27)

Round 2: Traded to Tennessee

Round 3: Traded to Tennessee

Round 4: SS Glenn Earl (Notre Dame, 122)

Round 6: CB Vontez Duff (Notre Dame, 170); FS Jammal Lord (Nebraska, 175); LB Charlie Anderson (Mississippi, 200)

Round 7: LB Raheem Orr (Rutgers, 210); WR Sloan Thomas (Texas, 211); QB B.J. Symons (Texas Tech, 248)
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Old 03-24-2006   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
Cedric Griffen is a 3rd round pick for us. Maybe if we had a late second rounder.. but #33 is too high for him.

If I was gonna pick up a CB in the second, it would be either Youboty, or Marshall (who I wanted in the 3rd, but has been flying up draft boards)

Another Possibility if he falls is Donte Whitner... who could fill our need at FS. I was a big Ko Simpson supporter..but his wonderlic turned me off to him. FS is a thinking man's position.

Anyway, if we didnt address the secondary, other possibilities are MLB Abdul Hodge, Sinorice Moss, Nick Mangold, Eric Winston, and Davin Joseph. Other than those 5.. I cant think of anyone else id be REALLY interested, outside of the DBs I mentioned.
I agree with almost everything said here. I still think if one of the top OTs drops to us (Winston or Justice, maybe McNeill but he may not have the lateral movement required) we take them with our second. Otherwise,, I like going for FS or CB here, whichever has the best prospect available. I like Whitner and would take Cromartie if he falls here, although he had an awesome Pro Day and most likely will be gone.
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Old 03-24-2006   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
Back to the point at hand adding an RB with the #1 pick would make that delta jump to 20 million dollars and we will not be able to spend money on the worst defense in the league for years. We must address the defense!
KT, I'm always amazed at your grasp of the financial side to this debate. However, (you knew it was coming) I think that in this case, finances will go out the window.

*The following is pure conjecture

Kubiak is an offensive-minded coach. He's coming into his first head coaching job after years of fielding offers and turning them down. This team's offensive last season was a freaking joke. He'll want to turn that around immediately. The only player that can provide that kind of instant gratification is Bush.

I'm not saying that Bush will be the Texans pick. What I am saying is that Bush will be the first player chosen in the draft. If the Texans trade down and go defense, I'd be a happy camper.
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Old 03-24-2006   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
We must address the defense!
Did we not sign Anthony Weaver?

Did we not offer a contract to Sam Cowart?

Did we not change the defense to fit our players better?


We have addressed the defense. We are going to continue to add players through the draft and FA and it will get better. This reminds me of the talk before of how we have to draft D'Brick with the #1 overall pick because we have a terrible line. There are 7 rounds in the draft and we have 4 of the first 66 picks. If we are so desperate for a DE (which we aren't anymore after Weaver), we can might be able to get Mathias Kiwanuka or Tamba Hali in the 2nd round. Or we can take Darryl Tapp in the third. Maybe we can take Mario's counterpart Manny Lawson? If we need a DB we can go after Antonio Cromartie or Jonathan Joseph or Darnell Bing. How about D'Qwell Jackson? He could fill our MLB hole.
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Old 03-24-2006   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tulexan
Did we not change the defense to fit our players better?
I'm not convinced this is the case .... but I'm glad we did ...
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Old 03-24-2006   #49
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Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
Whether you like it or not it is not a done deal that we are drafting Bush, any NFL bean counter can tell you that. As it stands right now our cap for the offense in 2006 will be $45,851,108. While our defense will be $35,747,332.

This does not include the Flanagan signing nor does it include Special Teams or dead cap. The numbers were taken off of HPF's cap estimate for the top 51player's contracts.
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap.html

We are top heavy on offense which will amount to a ~12 million delta. There is not much wiggle room (savings) with the contracts on the offensive side of the ball, that are expiring after the 2006 season, to get any credible goodness for cap implications. Yes Wade is there, signed through 2009, but has prorated bonus in 2006 of $1,673,387 and 2007. I can only assume that 2008 and 2009 will carry that proartion as well, which means if we cut him we would have $6,693,548 more in dead money. Surely a June cut would lessen the blow for accounting on the 2006 cap, but there is big pain already in 2007with Walker's dead cap of $5,499,999. I do not see us cutting Wade, unless we have a bunch of renegotiating going on with multiple players.

Back to the point at hand adding an RB with the #1 pick would make that delta jump to 20 million dollars and we will not be able to spend money on the worst defense in the league for years. We must address the defense!

So you address the defense by taking a player at #1 who you'll have to move the DE you just signed to make room for? If redundancy is why you don't pick Bush then what's the case for Williams?

$ for $, Bush gives you a greater impact today.
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Old 03-24-2006   #50
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Would still love Mario Williams ... And remember, Peek/Babin might not be considered starting-caliber DEs in the coaching staff's minds. Do not get me wrong, I would not lose any sleep over us drafting Bush and I think he and Davis in tandem are really powerful ... but it is hard for me to pass on Super Mario.
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Old 03-24-2006   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tulexan
Did we not sign Anthony Weaver?

Did we not offer a contract to Sam Cowart?

Did we not change the defense to fit our players better?


We have addressed the defense. We are going to continue to add players through the draft and FA and it will get better. This reminds me of the talk before of how we have to draft D'Brick with the #1 overall pick because we have a terrible line. There are 7 rounds in the draft and we have 4 of the first 66 picks. If we are so desperate for a DE (which we aren't anymore after Weaver), we can might be able to get Mathias Kiwanuka or Tamba Hali in the 2nd round. Or we can take Darryl Tapp in the third. Maybe we can take Mario's counterpart Manny Lawson? If we need a DB we can go after Antonio Cromartie or Jonathan Joseph or Darnell Bing. How about D'Qwell Jackson? He could fill our MLB hole.
You know our current needs and you stated very good prospects, but this is simple forecasting. If we go Bush and no other needs are addressed via FA you have heavily invested in the offense until 2008 with no chance of signing any top Defensive FA's and hope that our defensive unit grows organically. A ~20 million dollar delta is huge, not just for next year, but possibly for the next three years with DC, AJ and a prospective Bush all signed through 2008.

In any business you cannot be that weighted from an investment standpoint in one of your two lines of business, as you will stymie incremental growth.
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Old 03-24-2006   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tulexan
Did we not sign Anthony Weaver?

Did we not offer a contract to Sam Cowart?

Did we not change the defense to fit our players better?


We have addressed the defense. We are going to continue to add players through the draft and FA and it will get better. This reminds me of the talk before of how we have to draft D'Brick with the #1 overall pick because we have a terrible line. There are 7 rounds in the draft and we have 4 of the first 66 picks. If we are so desperate for a DE (which we aren't anymore after Weaver), we can might be able to get Mathias Kiwanuka or Tamba Hali in the 2nd round. Or we can take Darryl Tapp in the third. Maybe we can take Mario's counterpart Manny Lawson? If we need a DB we can go after Antonio Cromartie or Jonathan Joseph or Darnell Bing. How about D'Qwell Jackson? He could fill our MLB hole.
Exactly. Now with the Flanagan signing and with Bush at #1 the rest of the draft can be used to address the D. Then you have '07 when you can also use that draft to address the D.
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Old 03-24-2006   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tulexan
If we are so desperate for a DE (which we aren't anymore after Weaver), we can might be able to get Mathias Kiwanuka or Tamba Hali in the 2nd round. Or we can take Darryl Tapp in the third. Maybe we can take Mario's counterpart Manny Lawson? If we need a DB we can go after Antonio Cromartie or Jonathan Joseph or Darnell Bing. How about D'Qwell Jackson? He could fill our MLB hole.
This all sounds possible and OK, except for Darnell Bing. Bing would ost likely translate as a SS in the NFL, a position we already have adequate players at without addressing the more pressing need of a FS. I would also add Ray Edwards and Victor Adeyanju as DEs that should be available on day 2.
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Old 03-24-2006   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
You know our current needs and you stated very good prospects, but this is simple forecasting. If we go Bush and no other needs are addressed via FA you have heavily invested in the offense until 2008 with no chance of signing any top Defensive FA's and hope that our defensive unit grows organically. A ~20 million dollar delta is huge, not just for next year, but possibly for the next three years with DC, AJ and a prospective Bush all signed through 2008.

In any business you cannot be that weighted from an investment standpoint in one of your two lines of business, as you will stymie incremental growth.
Totally understand where you are coming from, BUT I don't think your conclusion is absolute. I'd bet the Colts are even more weighted to the O over the D. No they haven't won the SB but they have been in the hunt for years now.
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Old 03-24-2006   #55
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Who said that you have to have an unbelievable defense? I believe with our current additions, current scheme change, most importantly our coaching change, and our draft picks, we can be a middle of the pack defense.

If you have a middle of the pack defense and an all world offense you can be very successful. The Seahawks were tied for the 16th best defense this year. Denver had the 15th best defense. Cincinnati had the 28th best defense. New England had the 26th best defense.

On offense. Seattle had the 2nd best, Indy had the 3rd best, Denver had the 5th best, Cincy had the 6th best, New England had the 7th best.

Now I know that there were top ranked defenses were in the playoffs and there were also bad offenses in the playoffs. But the idea that you have to have a great defense is wrong.
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Old 03-24-2006   #56
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Originally Posted by tulexan
Who said that you have to have an unbelievable defense? I believe with our current additions, current scheme change, most importantly our coaching change, and our draft picks, we can be a middle of the pack defense.

If you have a middle of the pack defense and an all world offense you can be very successful. The Seahawks were tied for the 16th best defense this year. Denver had the 15th best defense. Cincinnati had the 28th best defense. New England had the 26th best defense.

On offense. Seattle had the 2nd best, Indy had the 3rd best, Denver had the 5th best, Cincy had the 6th best, New England had the 7th best.

Now I know that there were top ranked defenses were in the playoffs and there were also bad offenses in the playoffs. But the idea that you have to have a great defense is wrong.

Yep. Having an offense that can chew up yards and the clock while putting points on the board is quite conducive to winning. The team has not ignored the D in free agency and I suspect they will not in this draft. Going with Bush, given the moves thusfar in the offseason, gives you the best opportunity to have one side of the ball that is well above average. Why clip its wings to achieve cap equivalence?
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Old 03-24-2006   #57
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I still think between now and the start of the season we MUST find a #2 WR and a starting MLB. We may even find stop-gap veterans for both positions then draft prospects for one or both. Other positions that should to be addressed this year or next are FS (sorry but CC Brown and Glenn Earl are NOT a dynamic duo), CB2, OT, and a DE prospect.

I would love to take Winston in the 2nd.

LT Pitts
LG McKinney
C Flanagan
RG Wiegert
RT Winston
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Old 03-24-2006   #58
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Is finding a #2 WR the same as finding another weapon on offense ? If this is so then Bush is on paper the most lethal offensive weapon in the draft . This is not a great WR draft as far as depth at the top goes so you can't get a number 2 WR easily .
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Old 03-24-2006   #59
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seems universal on this board at least if Winston is available #33 the Texans take him. however I hope the Texans don't want him so bad they feel the need to trade up to get him. if he falls to us fine, if not look at the bpa.
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Old 03-24-2006   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el toro
They could still draft a lineman prospect at #33.

Agreed, but I think this signing puts Mangold in the luxuary catigory. I think there are enough RB's in the draft that someone will take a shot at Mangold
at the bottom of the first.
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