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View Poll Results: Should the Washington Redskins change their name?
Yes 33 28.70%
No 82 71.30%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-18-2014   #241
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
Hmm - So, Redskins is out but these are in? http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield

Nope, none of these could possibly offend.
From my perspective, it seems like this is beyond simply 'being offended'.

It concerns a sordid history of indigenous peoples who were systematically slaughtered by the U.S. government through various genocidal policies in order to dishonor all treaties to steal and exploit their lands.

The term speaks to a very ugly past and racial attitudes in this country for many people.

But, just my two cents, fwiw.
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Old 06-18-2014   #242
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Both my grandparents were full blooded indian, so my dad was full blooded my mother was white/mutt. So that makes me half.

Should the redskins change their names ? I dont think so, everything in the world could offend one person. People these days are to soft and get their feelings hurt over nothing IMO.
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Old 06-18-2014   #243
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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Old 06-19-2014   #244
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

No.
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Old 06-19-2014   #245
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
Both my grandparents were full blooded indian, so my dad was full blooded my mother was white/mutt. So that makes me half.

Should the redskins change their names ? I dont think so, everything in the world could offend one person. People these days are to soft and get their feelings hurt over nothing IMO.
So I guess the bottom line here is we only have to be super sensitive when it comes to black Americans. If this were about their race the name would have been changed years ago.

BTW, being technically half NA doesn't really put you in their shoes. Now if you were posting from a reservation in North Dakota and dealing with racial tension daily for being Indian that would be another story.
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Old 06-19-2014   #246
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

As the descendant of African slaves, the French bastards who owned them and the Indians from whom they stole the land in the first place...I don't like ANYBODY! I aint too crazy about my DAMN self!
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Old 06-19-2014   #247
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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Originally Posted by Hookem Horns View Post
BTW, being technically half NA doesn't really put you in their shoes. Now if you were posting from a reservation in North Dakota and dealing with racial tension daily for being Indian that would be another story.
So the one drop rule only applies to blacks.
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Old 06-19-2014   #248
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
So the one drop rule only applies to blacks.
I was curious about the 'one drop rule', so I looked it up.

Turns out it originated with white folks during 1960s Jim Crow laws in the south. Go figure.

So, yeah, because of racist whitey, it did only apply to blacks in order for them to be officially discriminated against.
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Old 06-19-2014   #249
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
I was curious about the 'one drop rule', so I looked it up.

Turns out it originated with white folks during 1960s Jim Crow laws in the south. Go figure.

So, yeah, because of racist whitey, it did only apply to blacks in order for them to be officially discriminated against.
I'm just being facetious about the whole thing because I find the entire affair to be ludicrous on both sides. Hook'Em's comment about being half NA not mattering struck me funny after 6 years of hearing about our "black" President that grew up between Asia and a beach in Hawaii.

So I'm pretty much rolling my eyes at both threads on the topic every other post.
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Old 06-19-2014   #250
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
I'm just being facetious about the whole thing because I find the entire affair to be ludicrous on both sides. Hook'Em's comment about being half NA not mattering struck me funny after 6 years of hearing about our "black" President that grew up between Asia and a beach in Hawaii.

So I'm pretty much rolling my eyes at both threads on the topic every other post.
yeah, I knew you were being facetious. I was just curious about the one drop rule, because I've heard it my whole life. Thought it was interesting that it came from Jim Crow, as I've read many black folks embracing the concept the past few years, especially as it pertains to some entertainers and President Obama.
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Old 06-19-2014   #251
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
yeah, I knew you were being facetious. I was just curious about the one drop rule, because I've heard it my whole life. Thought it was interesting that it came from Jim Crow, as I've read many black folks embracing the concept the past few years, especially as it pertains to some entertainers and President Obama.
The tribes tend to be a might pickier to get your CIB. (Except maybe the Cherokee)
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Old 06-20-2014   #252
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Change the name to Natives ... keep the logo.
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Old 06-20-2014   #253
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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Originally Posted by Hookem Horns View Post
So I guess the bottom line here is we only have to be super sensitive when it comes to black Americans. If this were about their race the name would have been changed years ago.

BTW, being technically half NA doesn't really put you in their shoes. Now if you were posting from a reservation in North Dakota and dealing with racial tension daily for being Indian that would be another story.
My full blooded grandmother is still alive and she thinks the whole issue is dumb.

And i do consider myself white, they can name the team craker skins for all i really care. The whole point is that everyone gets offended over the littlest things, and people take things way out of context.

Kinda like people who say they dont like the color blue on the wall, well i say dont look at the fing wall then.

Pretty simple IMO, the best way to get rid of rascism is that everyone stop accusing everyone else of it.
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Old 06-20-2014   #254
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
My full blooded grandmother is still alive and she thinks the whole issue is dumb.

And i do consider myself white, they can name the team craker skins for all i really care. The whole point is that everyone gets offended over the littlest things, and people take things way out of context.

Kinda like people who say they dont like the color blue on the wall, well i say dont look at the fing wall then.

Pretty simple IMO, the best way to get rid of rascism is that everyone stop accusing everyone else of it.
I don't think people supporting the name "Redskins" are racists. Most (including Snyder) are sentimental to the name because they grew up Redskins fans and to them it's just the name of their team. The same way many of us had a connection to the Oilers name.

However that said, there is no denying the name is a slur. It is what many whites called Native Americans back in days of the Indian wars.

The "redskin" to most whites back then was the enemy. A threat. They weren't viewed as honorable people, but redskin savages.

I don't think the name was given to the team to honor Indians either. It was more than likely taking the villain mascot approach. "We're the nasty Redskins coming for your scalp!".

To me the name is comparable to "Japs". "Japs" and "Nips" are what Americans labeled the enemy Japanese during WWII. That generation continued using "Japs" and "Nips" to refer to Japanese people. However you couldn't name a team "Japs" nowadays as it's considered slur.
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Old 06-20-2014   #255
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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Originally Posted by Hookem Horns View Post
I don't think people supporting the name "Redskins" are racists. Most (including Snyder) are sentimental to the name because they grew up Redskins fans and to them it's just the name of their team. The same way many of us had a connection to the Oilers name.

However that said, there is no denying the name is a slur. It is what many whites called Native Americans back in days of the Indian wars.

The "redskin" to most whites back then was the enemy. A threat. They weren't viewed as honorable people, but redskin savages.

I don't think the name was given to the team to honor Indians either. It was more than likely taking the villain mascot approach. "We're the nasty Redskins coming for your scalp!".

To me the name is comparable to "Japs". "Japs" and "Nips" are what Americans labeled the enemy Japanese during WWII. That generation continued using "Japs" and "Nips" to refer to Japanese people. However you couldn't name a team "Japs" nowadays as it's considered slur.
Great post, man. :

My own perspective is not from being offended. I've said it many times before, but words do not offend me. I've got thick reptilian skin about these kinds of things and don't sweat most of it. I get offended by actions (i..e. rape, genocide, child abuse, etc.).

That said, this matter is one of principle for me. The simple fact is that all respected dictionaries reveal that the name is a racial slur. Take that and consider the deplorable treatment by native peoples by our government throughout its history, and it's a no brainer for me.

I've talked with a lot of Native Americans (through BSA's Order of the Arrow) about this subject, and there seems to be a general consensus against the name (and really against the stereotypical image of the war bonnet, which is highly revered in Indian cultures).

However, none of them that I talked with trust the government and do not want government action to force a change. They would rather it change 'organically' as a result of a shift in public attitudes. Seeing the government FORCE someone to do something reminds them of a very ugly history of government coercion by force. It makes sense.

Interesting that some of the most patriotic and fiercely loyal people to this country I have ever met are Native Americans. They might dislike government, but they certainly love this country.
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Old 06-20-2014   #256
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

As a vet of the 101st airborne division, I've been wondering when PETA is gonna start griping about the unit icon (which is the head of a "screaming eagle"/Bald Eagle) that is the shoulder patch on unit uniforms.
I'm actually 'bout 50 % serious here, so I wouldn't be surprised if at some point we hear that screw-ball group start claiming that it's some how abusive or disrespectful and inappropriate policy for the big predators and start demanding a change in 101st uniform policy.
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Old 06-21-2014   #257
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

Quote:
why redskins decision is wrong

by marc randazza
2:36 pm edt, sat june 21, 2014

(cnn) -- the washington redskins find themselves under (deserved) fire for their name, which many native americans and others find to be a racial slur. Previously the target of protests and opprobrium, the redskins have now lost their federal trademark registration for the name, as it was deemed too disparaging to remain protected. There are two issue to consider here: One is technical and the other is one we should all find troubling.

The first: This case was about a trademark, and the primary purpose of trademark law is to protect the public so that the public can accurately know the source or origin of goods and services. But headlines that say the redskins lost their trademark are inaccurate.

All they lost was their trademark registration, not the right to use the racist term to identify their team -- and that is a key point. In the united states, trademark rights flow from an organization using the trademark; technically, you don't need to register a trademark in order to have trademark rights. (in other countries, you need a registration).

With its common law rights intact, the team is free to continue to call itself the "redskins." moreover, it can still sue you for selling counterfeit washington redskins gear, and it can still block someone from starting a washington redskins dodgeball team. The washington redskins still have trademark rights, and strong rights at that.

If the team owners still have rights in the trademark, why is losing the registration a big deal? What does a registration give you? It gives you a few statutory presumptions in the event that you go to court over enforcement of your trademark. It gives a presumption of ownership and validity. In simple terms, the cancellation only means that if there is a trademark infringement lawsuit, the washington redskins team is going to have to pay a bit more in attorneys' fees to win its case.

Opinion: Is end near for redskins? It's about time

but nobody can seriously argue that dan snyder's football team is not the owner of the still-intact trademark rights, nor that the public associates his team with the racist name.

The second issue: There is something even more offensive than the team's name: The fact that this case happened at all. The decision, i believe, has first amendment implications that we shouldn't ignore.
the rest of the story

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Old 06-21-2014   #258
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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the rest of the story
...link no workie
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Old 06-22-2014   #259
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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Originally Posted by Hookem Horns View Post
I don't think people supporting the name "Redskins" are racists. Most (including Snyder) are sentimental to the name because they grew up Redskins fans and to them it's just the name of their team. The same way many of us had a connection to the Oilers name.

However that said, there is no denying the name is a slur. It is what many whites called Native Americans back in days of the Indian wars.

The "redskin" to most whites back then was the enemy. A threat. They weren't viewed as honorable people, but redskin savages.

I don't think the name was given to the team to honor Indians either. It was more than likely taking the villain mascot approach. "We're the nasty Redskins coming for your scalp!".

To me the name is comparable to "Japs". "Japs" and "Nips" are what Americans labeled the enemy Japanese during WWII. That generation continued using "Japs" and "Nips" to refer to Japanese people. However you couldn't name a team "Japs" nowadays as it's considered slur.
I would invite you to read this article and give your thoughts after reading it, as well as all of the others who voted yes, or assert that the term is actually a racial slur.

Quote:
In 2005, the Indian language scholar Ives Goddard of the Smithsonian Institution published a remarkable and consequential study of redskin's early history. His findings shifted the dates for the word's first appearance in print by more than a century and shed an awkward light on the contemporary debate. Goddard found, in summary, that "the actual origin of the word is entirely benign."
Full Article
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Old 06-22-2014   #260
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Default Re: Should the Redskins change their name?

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I would invite you to read this article and give your thoughts after reading it, as well as all of the others who voted yes, or assert that the term is actually a racial slur.

Full Article
Thanks Nitro, that interesting and ironic because it sounds similar to the origin of another word.

Quote:
The word originated as a neutral term referring to black people, as a variation of the Spanish/Portuguese noun negro, a descendant of the Latin adjective niger ("color black")
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/n*gger (replace the * to see the link)

Quote:
The history of the word ****** is often traced to the Latin word niger, meaning Black. This word became the noun, Negro (Black person) in English, and simply the color Black in Spanish and Portuguese. In early modern French, niger became negre and, later, negress (Black woman) was unmistakably a part of language history. One can compare to negre the derogatory ****** and earlier English substitutes such as negar, neegar, neger, and niggor that developed into its lexico-semantic true version in English. It is probable that ****** is a phonetic spelling of the White Southern mispronunciation of Negro.

No matter what its origins, by the early 1800s, it was firmly established as a derogative name
http://www.aaregistry.org/historic_e...-brief-history

Just like the word above, redskin too became a derogatory word used by whites. Interesting how both started as just referring to someone by their skin color.
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