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Old 06-17-2014   #1161
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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You're the one so far disconnected from reality that you've decided that the best player in Texans history is a quitter because he asserted an option allowed to him under the CBA.

The fact that you're ignorant enough to attempt a comparison to folks as replaceable as Jon Weeks shows a complete lack of comprehension. If Andre has essentially 3 more productive years, he has a real shot at making the Hall of Fame. If you think that makes him just another guy, then there's little point in the discussion.
Listen, you can keep saying "An option is allowed to him under the CBA" all you want, it still will not make it true. If it were "Allowed" to him or any other players under the CBA, there would not be a fine for doing it. Use your brain. Your love fest with Andre Johnson is clouding your judgement.

The fact that he is the best player in Texans history has nothing to do with it. If your contention is that Dre does not have to follow the rules because he is Dre, then there is no helping you. This is a team sport, and Dre could not have accomplished the things he has without his teammates. Now he deserts his teammates when they need him most because he wants more money, or thinks he deserves to win a championship and you want to give him a pass.

Everyone is replaceable, and everyone is expected to abide by the rules, and by their contracts. The contracts that we are not privy to contain the language that spells out what is, and is not allowed, and the fact that teams cut players before their contracts are fulfilled is agreed upon therein.

Although I cannot say with absolute certainty that there is no language in Dre's contract that guarantees him a shot at the HoF. I would say it is highly unlikely any such language exists. Individual goals are not in the teams best interest, and only selfish players care about that. His contract most likely does not say "You will play for the Texans unless your individual goals are in danger" Trying to excuse his behavior because of that is absurd.

Dre statistically had a great year last season and was on a team that was undoubtedly worse than the team the Texans will field this season.

Dan Marino and Barry Sanders are both in the HoF. You know why? Because they were elite players, not because they won championships or played on good teams. Your straw man is falling apart.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1162
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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Listen, you can keep saying "An option is allowed to him under the CBA" all you want, it still will not make it true. If it were "Allowed" to him or any other players under the CBA, there would not be a fine for doing it. Use your brain. Your love fest with Andre Johnson is clouding your judgement.

The fact that he is the best player in Texans history has nothing to do with it. If your contention is that Dre does not have to follow the rules because he is Dre, then there is no helping you. This is a team sport, and Dre could not have accomplished the things he has without his teammates. Now he deserts his teammates when they need him most because he wants more money, or thinks he deserves to win a championship and you want to give him a pass.

Everyone is replaceable, and everyone is expected to abide by the rules, and by their contracts. The contracts that we are not privy to contain the language that spells out what is, and is not allowed, and the fact that teams cut players before their contracts are fulfilled is agreed upon therein.

Although I cannot say with absolute certainty that there is no language in Dre's contract that guarantees him a shot at the HoF. I would say it is highly unlikely any such language exists. Individual goals are not in the teams best interest, and only selfish players care about that. His contract most likely does not say "You will play for the Texans unless your individual goals are in danger" Trying to excuse his behavior because of that is absurd.

Dre statistically had a great year last season and was on a team that was undoubtedly worse than the team the Texans will field this season.

Dan Marino and Barry Sanders are both in the HoF. You know why? Because they were elite players, not because they won championships or played on good teams. Your straw man is falling apart.
Barry Sanders played in a Nfc championship game and Dan Marino played in a super bowl. Andre hasn't even played in a afc championship game I believe that's a big factor. If the Texans as a organization truly cared about those things even for their own organization they would have done what was necessary years ago.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1163
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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I love how you interpret a fine to mean it is a players right to hold out. Why in the hell would they be fining a player if it was their right to hold out? That has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Can you read? I did not interpret fine to mean a player has a right to hold out. The simple fact is rights are already yours, they're not given to you by a document. Point blank.

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The bargaining agreement does NOT give a player the RIGHT to breech his contract. It lays out consequences for such breeches.

I do admit that I am not comfortable with the NFL teams being able to terminate player contracts through simple cuts, but that too has been agreed to in the bargaining agreement with the players union. Their (union) contract is more important than the individuals they represent. Bad message.
The CBA does not give anyone any rights to do anything. It's literally the Constitution of the NFL. The constitution is a way of securing them. All corporations have them. It is the bylaws/regulations, or code of conduct if you will. If you know any about a constitution you know it does not give you any rights. The rights are already in existence. If there is no specific language restricting a right, it is in effect by default. There is no specific language saying a player cannot holdout. In fact, there is a specific clause that allows for changes to be made to an agreed upon contract. If you pay attention to the wording it is very clear that NFL contracts are volatile not stationary as many of you seem to think. At the end of the day a player will do what's best for himself (and if that includes happiness and winning etc then it is well within their right use any resources available even if that means a holdout), just as the team will do what's best for themselves (you know like cut a player that signed that sacred contract you guys speak about). All this other BS posters such as yourself are posting about "loyalty, honor, do it for the team" is for the birds. This is a business.

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Old 06-17-2014   #1164
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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Old 06-17-2014   #1165
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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Now here's a glass half full kinda guy!

The question of half full or half empty, the glass is always half FULL. Half of empty is always EMPTY.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1166
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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bahaha thats good stuff.....
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Old 06-17-2014   #1167
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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The question of half full or half empty, the glass is always half FULL. Half of empty is always EMPTY.
Actually the glass is completely full; half with water the other half with air.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1168
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

I resent one player getting this much attention without even announcing his intentions firmly. It isn't worth 58 pages of speculation. If he wants to quit, let him quit. If he wants to play, let him work his can off while he learns the new system.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1169
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

I have gone from having Dre on idol status to now I just want him gone.

On the Texans terms of course.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1170
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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LMAO...my colleagues are in trouble now!
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Old 06-17-2014   #1171
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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ummm... "playing chess with a pigeon" speaks more to the lack of common sense of the player than it does to expected, natural behavior of the pigeon.

having said that, I must rep you because that's some funny sh!t.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1172
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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bahaha thats good stuff.....
It is a great picture.

He's describing himself not his opponent but it's still a great picture. He just doesn't realize he's the pigeon.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1173
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

so did the ole ingrate receiver show up today?
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Old 06-17-2014   #1174
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

Andre do it for the TEAM!!!!

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Old 06-17-2014   #1175
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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If you're done ****ting on the board answer me this. If the two of us have a standard contract where I work for you and I break the contract what happens? Do you have the right to fine me? Do you have the right to void the contract yourself?

Since you have a problem grasping this ill answer for you. No and no. Not unless we have a collective agreement that allows me to back out with fines and allows you to terminate such contract at your discretion.

Without that agreement your only recourse would be to take me to court and sue. The fact that they can fine the players should make it obvious that there is a provision that allows players to sit out. If there wasn't then the teams only option would be to take the player to court and sue do to breach of contract.

Now stop strutting around and ****ting on this board. It's making you look like you have a bird brain.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1176
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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so did the ole ingrate receiver show up today?
No but a bunch of ingrate posters (like you) have showed up asking about him.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1177
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

Agree with Marshall and Nitrofish, and if I am the Texans I let him retire. I don't trade him and I don't renegotiate which sets a bad precedent. I say if you want to be part of the team, we will welcome you with open arms, but no player is bigger than the team and if you don't want to be part of the team, then you are welcome to retire but you as the employee don't get to tell us how to run our business. We employ you to do a job and if you aren't willing to do said job, then it's time to move on.

Name another business where a man can not show up to work, get paid, and grumble about the way the business is being run and demand they get transferred to another division of said company in another state.

Lastly, I don't even know what the hell his problem is. I don't think it's been made public, but he is losing a lot of respect at this point and he just needs to take his sorry ass back to Miami and settle in his easy chair if he isn't willing to be on the team.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1178
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
If you're done ****ting on the board answer me this. If the two of us have a standard contract where I work for you and I break the contract what happens? Do you have the right to fine me? Do you have the right to void the contract yourself?

Since you have a problem grasping this ill answer for you. No and no. Not unless we have a collective agreement that allows me to back out with fines and allows you to terminate such contract at your discretion.

Without that agreement your only recourse would be to take me to court and sue. The fact that they can fine the players should make it obvious that there is a provision that allows players to sit out. If there wasn't then the teams only option would be to take the player to court and sue do to breach of contract.

Now stop strutting around and ****ting on this board. It's making you look like you have a bird brain.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1179
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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If you're done ****ting on the board answer me this. If the two of us have a standard contract where I work for you and I break the contract what happens? Do you have the right to fine me? Do you have the right to void the contract yourself?

Since you have a problem grasping this ill answer for you. No and no. Not unless we have a collective agreement that allows me to back out with fines and allows you to terminate such contract at your discretion.

Without that agreement your only recourse would be to take me to court and sue. The fact that they can fine the players should make it obvious that there is a provision that allows players to sit out. If there wasn't then the teams only option would be to take the player to court and sue do to breach of contract.
This is exactly correct. There are even provisions now that if Andre were to hold out in the regular season that the team can go get portions of the signing bonus back.

However, this still hurts the team and it damages my opinion of Andre. If he wanted to go play for a winner so badly, he should have let his contract expire and signed with another team at a discounted rate years ago. He can't have it both ways.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1180
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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This is exactly correct. There are even provisions now that if Andre were to hold out in the regular season that the team can go get portions of the signing bonus back.

However, this still hurts the team and it damages my opinion of Andre. If he wanted to go play for a winner so badly, he should have let his contract expire and signed with another team at a discounted rate years ago. He can't have it both ways.
When are you speaking about? Because the original contract was an extension to his rookie contract signed in 2007. Oh it was a bad contract (for AJ but great for the "team"), especially considering a year late Larry Fitz gets a monster $100+ mil with over $20 mil more in guaranteed than Johnson's. Sure after back to back 100+ catch, 1500+ yard seasons Johnson demanded more money. The amount he got extra was still miniscule compare to Fitz and other's such as Harvin, Wallace etc, all people who's production was sub par (and still is) compared to AJ's. Besides you are trying to compare the difference between a 25 year old AJ (2007) and a 32 year old AJ (2014). Just a little perspective
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