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Old 06-16-2014   #1141
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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Originally Posted by Nitrofish View Post
Really? Can you cite the passage in the CBA that states that please?
Why do people make half assed comments like this? Why don't you read it yourself?

http://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/...-2011-2020.pdf

I read over the nfl contract portion. It just basically says if a player willfully misses practice, workout, off season stuff etc he can be fined up to a certain extent. The fact that they even word it in the manner they did shows that it always has been and will continue to be a right of a player to holdout for any reason. It defintely doesn't speak of this bullcrap alot of other posters are saying "Well he signed a contract. He owes it to the team" I haven't seen a clause about that BS. It's a business. Get over it.

Last edited by cbs1507; 06-17-2014 at 08:18 AM.
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Old 06-16-2014   #1142
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

I hear mini camps a comin'
It's rolling round the bend I ain't caught a football since I don't know when,
I'm stuck in Texan's prison, and time keeps draggin' on
But those OTAs keep a rollin' on down by the dome ..
When I was just a baby my mama told me. Son,
Always be a good boy, you'll never use the shotgun .
But I beat a man in Reliant just to watch him bleed
When I hear that whistle blowing , 12 wins is what I need

I bet there's winning players eating in a fancy dining car
They're probably drinkin' Cognac and smoking big reefer cigars.
Well I know I had it coming, I know I can't be free
But those players keep a winning
And that's what tortures me...

Well if they freed me from this prison,
If that QB pick was mine
I bet I'd move it on a little farther down the line
Far from this Texan's prison, that's where I want to stay
And I'd let that referee's whistle blow my deep steel blues away.....
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Old 06-16-2014   #1143
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
I hear mini camps a comin'
It's rolling round the bend I ain't caught a football since I don't know when,
I'm stuck in Texan's prison, and time keeps draggin' on
But those OTAs keep a rollin' on down by the dome ..
When I was just a baby my mama told me. Son,
Always be a good boy, you'll never use the shotgun .
But I beat a man in Reliant just to watch him bleed
When I hear that whistle blowing , 12 wins is what I need

I bet there's winning players eating in a fancy dining car
They're probably drinkin' Cognac and smoking big reefer cigars.
Well I know I had it coming, I know I can't be free
But those players keep a winning
And that's what tortures me...

Well if they freed me from this prison,
If that QB pick was mine
I bet I'd move it on a little farther down the line
Far from this Texan's prison, that's where I want to stay
And I'd let that referee's whistle blow my deep steel blues away.....
Man that is pretty catchy. Sort of reminds me of a song by Joaquin Phoenix..
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Old 06-16-2014   #1144
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Man that is pretty catchy. Sort of reminds me of a song by Joaquin Phoenix..
I was thinking more of Joaquín Andújar .
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Old 06-16-2014   #1145
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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Originally Posted by Nitrofish View Post
He is a quitter, and I never asserted he displayed the character flaw before. You are making that up. It's not about what I asserted, it's about what AJ asserted when he signed that contract.

AJ gave his word when he signed his contract. I am sure if you read it, it lays out that he is expected to show up to OTA's and camp..
So, you're going to just continue and make **** up? That's about it, right?

YOU think he's a quitter, and YOU think signing a contract means that only one side gets to assert their options under that contract?

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Old 06-17-2014   #1146
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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Originally Posted by cbs1507 View Post
Why do people make half assed comments like this? Why don't you read it yourself?

http://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/...-2011-2020.pdf

I glossed over the nfl contract portion. It just basically says if a player willfully misses practice, workout, off season stuff etc he can be fined up to a certain extent. The fact that they even word it in the manner they did shows that it always has been and will continue to be a right of a player to holdout for any reason. It defintely doesn't speak of this bullcrap alot of other posters are saying "Well he signed a contract. He owes it to the team" I haven't seen a clause about that BS. It's a business. Get over it.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1147
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
I have not heard of one player being distracted. It sounds like AJ is not doing what you want him to and you are distracted. His contract (thru the CBA) allows him to do exactly what he is doing with only minor consequences. I think if NFL owners were really upset with behavior of players like AJ holding out or not showing or whatever, the consequences would be more severe. His actions are not immoral, criminal or evil. He is doing what he thinks is best for him under the rules.
Breach of Contract is wrong. Yes, there are consequences when you do it, but that doesn't mitigate the wrong. Missing voluntary workouts may cause you to be unprepared, but you can work around that when you're a veteran and the physical toll is more profound than a level of mental unpreparedness.

But missing the mandatory workouts is another thing. The financial consequences may be minor, but the lack of honor remains. It is a common ploy of agents who have no honor.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1148
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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Originally Posted by cbs1507 View Post
Why do people make half assed comments like this? Why don't you read it yourself?

http://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/...-2011-2020.pdf

I glossed over the nfl contract portion. It just basically says if a player willfully misses practice, workout, off season stuff etc he can be fined up to a certain extent. The fact that they even word it in the manner they did shows that it always has been and will continue to be a right of a player to holdout for any reason. It defintely doesn't speak of this bullcrap alot of other posters are saying "Well he signed a contract. He owes it to the team" I haven't seen a clause about that BS. It's a business. Get over it.
I love how you interpret a fine to mean it is a players right to hold out. Why in the hell would they be fining a player if it was their right to hold out? That has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by disaacks3 View Post
So, you're going to just continue and make **** up? That's about it, right?

YOU think he's a quitter, and YOU think signing a contract means that only one side gets to assert their options under that contract?

What did I make up? As I said in the message above, why would the team or league fine a player for something that was their right to do? If it is a right, there would be no fine. To say otherwise is utter nonsense.

This is an option players use when they do not have leverage because they are locked into a binding contract, and it is not a right. It's a strategy players use, but it is NOT a right. The fact that you have reduced your argument down to defending a hold out shows how disconnected from reality you are.

If it were Jon Weeks, or John Doe pulling this BS, you would all be screaming for his head. But because it is Dre, you want to give him a pass. That's called a double standard, and hypocrisy.

Most of you called for a culture change, and said the team was soft. So that change finally comes, and now you want to make exceptions for a star player. So much for culture change.

So now it has become less about the player and the situation, and more about attacking someone you disagree with, even though you all know holding out, for any reason is frowned upon and is a rather childish way to do business. I encourage all of you to try this crap where you work.

Send me a postcard from the unemployment line.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1149
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
spin it any way you want, this team sucks currently. he has poured blood,sweat and tears into this organization he should be allowed to pursue greener pastures elsewhere because all we have here is a dried up rice field. Why let it become personal and bitter after such a stellar career?

Oh and why not mention the other 9 or 10 seasons of misery that he endured?
I do NOT have any sympathy for a player who signs a contract that he later regrets. If you don't want to play, then retire. If you just want to get a new contract, then work your bottom off and don't become a distraction.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1150
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
The bold is where I think you keep saying incorrectly that he is using some "special privilege" other players do not have. All the vets can do the same thing he is doing but chose not to. None is an 11 year with individual stats that he has. They chose to show he did not.

Any worker can decide to not show for work and experienced the consequences which would be different for many. That is what he is doing. He did not create the consequences; the players union and the owners created the consequences. His choice does not make him wrong, it just means some disagree or like me wish he had chosen differently.

I also think you are wrong if you think some employees do not get treated differently than coworkers if they are demonstrably better than those coworkers.
While the bolded is true, most employers would not put up with it and would fire the employee unless they were essential and in that case, they would immediately begin finding a replacement so it they wouldn't be placed in that position again.

This is out of character for him and I suspect the wrong guy has his ear right now. Family can make you do foolish things.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1151
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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Originally Posted by xtruroyaltyx View Post
I'm not really attached to any of these guys.
I'm very attached emotionally to Earl and Bum (may he rest in peace) because they were from HERE! Earl played a my parents' high school, (Tyler-John Tyler) where I first saw him play and Bum shared a back fence in Orange with a close personal friend. I'm also friends with his ex son-in-law.

Akeem I was connected too, but not Hakeem. That is someone totally different in my opinion.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1152
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
MSR!!!
http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/MSR

Which of these is your intended statement?
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Old 06-17-2014   #1153
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
What a bunch of rubbish. You should just stop. players have the right in the nfl bargaining agreement to do exactly what AJ is doing and teams have the right to terminate contracts early if they see fit. So just stop with this nonsense.
The bargaining agreement does NOT give a player the RIGHT to breech his contract. It lays out consequences for such breeches.

I do admit that I am not comfortable with the NFL teams being able to terminate player contracts through simple cuts, but that too has been agreed to in the bargaining agreement with the players union. Their (union) contract is more important than the individuals they represent. Bad message.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1154
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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Originally Posted by Marshall View Post
I'm very attached emotionally to Earl and Bum (may he rest in peace) because they were from HERE! Earl played a my parents' high school, (Tyler-John Tyler) where I first saw him play and Bum shared a back fence in Orange with a close personal friend. I'm also friends with his ex son-in-law.

Akeem I was connected too, but not Hakeem. That is someone totally different in my opinion.
I hear ya...I don't remember earl and bum much. I was about 8 or 9 when the rockets won their rings. And dream is my all time favorite athlete. But I'm not really "attached" I don't think.

I root for rashard Lewis because he is from my neck of the woods and went to my high school. But as bad as I wanted him to get a ring and as wrong as I felt about it, I just couldn't bring myself to root for the heat.

I understand it. I get it. But for me personally I just don't feel overly committed to these guys. I like what they do on the field, in the community...but I don't really know them. They're athletes and I think football is a different kind of entertainment (I understand the emotions/affinity for players)...I just don't get that attached to individual players. I like them. I'm just not going to feel any emotions when they are no longer around.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1155
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

Sounds to me like Johnson just saved the Texans a million dollars! Thanks Andre!
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Old 06-17-2014   #1156
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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Originally Posted by Nitrofish View Post
The fact that you have reduced your argument down to defending a hold out shows how disconnected from reality you are.

If it were Jon Weeks, or John Doe pulling this BS, you would all be screaming for his head. But because it is Dre, you want to give him a pass. That's called a double standard, and hypocrisy.
You're the one so far disconnected from reality that you've decided that the best player in Texans history is a quitter because he asserted an option allowed to him under the CBA.

The fact that you're ignorant enough to attempt a comparison to folks as replaceable as Jon Weeks shows a complete lack of comprehension. If Andre has essentially 3 more productive years, he has a real shot at making the Hall of Fame. If you think that makes him just another guy, then there's little point in the discussion.

Quote:
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While the bolded is true, most employers would not put up with it and would fire the employee unless they were essential and in that case, they would immediately begin finding a replacement so it they wouldn't be placed in that position again.

This is out of character for him and I suspect the wrong guy has his ear right now. Family can make you do foolish things.
In this case, the NFLPA and the NFL agreed that these were the conditions of said employment. They agreed on the details of OTAs and mini-camps to a fairly specific degree.

So, most employers in the same situation would do exactly what the NFL does...they follow the rules of that contract, lest they be dragged into a lawsuit with the NLRB. What "most" employers in other conditions would do has no relevance to this situation.

Sure, I think his Uncle (and whoever else is whispering in Andre's ear) aren't necessarily helping his cause, but that's been the case with much more high-profile agents than Dre's.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1157
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/MSR

Which of these is your intended statement?
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Old 06-17-2014   #1158
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

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Sounds to me like Johnson just saved the Texans a million dollars! Thanks Andre!
Now here's a glass half full kinda guy!

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Old 06-17-2014   #1159
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

If Andre Johnson can't be motivated to work for MILLIONS of dollars for a few hours a day for the team he contracted with, then I say .... "Andre who?"

I'm quite sure there are a few of us who would be willing to sacrifice ourselves in his place.

He needs to count his blessings.
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Old 06-17-2014   #1160
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Default Re: Just got some disturbing news about A Johnson

Andre is realizing he needs to finally start thinking about Andre just as the texans will do what is best in regards to the texans business wise. Super bowl can be said out of Bob McNair's mouth but business is business and a Houston Football team has yet to even reach the afc championship game since Bum Phillips was coaching. Andre Johnson right now is simply about the business of taking care of Andre Johnson. So Bob McNair can charge it to the game and continue to take care of his business by selling out stadium seats and maximizing his profit on rodeo events. This isn't a super bowl or bust organization and it never has been... what has been proven in Houston? Nothing but lies and failure. Bill O'brien is getting his shot which is good and hopefully Rick Smith and he have the full control they need.
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