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Old 02-27-2014   #41
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Wow. I missed that one. Could be important.

Within the next couple of years if Jones is no good. Myers was still playing at a good level, but his pass blocking dipped a bit possibly due to Wade's weak play.
Most elbow problems can be handled by conservative non-operative approach. Only 5-10 require surgery.

If you remember back in I believe it was Nov of last season, I reported that he was having significant elbow problems which concerned me for a center who requires repetitive pushing against resistance. He was evidently receiving concentrated treatment............but no rest, which is one of the most important components of the conservative approach. Not resting the elbow could have resulted in nothing but aggravation and extension of the injury. And following failed conservative treatment, surgery was decided on.

BTW, pass blocking is much harder on the elbows than run blocking since your arms can be kept more controlled central to the body.
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Old 02-27-2014   #42
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
WOW!! That's actually is huge Doc... As someone that played O-Line, we understand what it means for an offensive lineman to explode off the line but more importantly jab that defensive lineman (violently) with full effort to effect their rush..

What kind of repair time (i.e. elbow full strength/extension) are we talking about? 6-8 weeks? 3 months?

As an aside, the Texans should be looking for another Center anyway, given Myers age. No?

3 months is probably a good bet. But since we don't know the exact pathology or exact procedure we can't prognosticate exact level of performance return. Tennis elbow release? chipped off cartilage? ligament repair? arthritis?..............none of these are what you would want to have in your starting center.
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Old 03-05-2014   #43
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Default Re: Center Battle

Here's a great interview with Chris Myers.
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Old 03-05-2014   #44
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Here's a great interview with Chris Myers.
Thanks for posting. Great interview. msr.
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Old 06-15-2014   #45
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Default Re: Center Battle

All linemen are going at least ~310 or heavier this year. If Meyers has not bulked up from his 286 playing weight last year, he's going to be wearing a big target for the Ds......and the Oline will essentially have a funnel in the middle.
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Old 06-15-2014   #46
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
All linemen are going at least ~310 or heavier this year. If Meyers has not bulked up from his 286 playing weight last year, he's going to be wearing a big target for the Ds......and the Oline will essentially have a funnel in the middle.
He's going to become less capable because the guys around him are bigger?
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Old 06-15-2014   #47
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
The problem with this statement is the belief that OB doesn't use a ZBS.

He does.

I expect Myers to continue to fit right in.
All zone schemes aren't created equal.

From my understanding this will be more of a power type zone whereas kubiaks was more on the finesse side.

Kubiaks zone was more about getting the defense to move sideways whereas this zone (I think) will be more straight ahead type zone. More inside the tackles zone and less outside stretch type stuff

Not really commenting on Meyers effectiveness...just pointing out that while we are still going to use zone, it'll be different than what we've seen in the past. Less cutback stuff and more hit the hole.

And really I'd say most nfl teams run some variation of zone blocking.
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Old 06-15-2014   #48
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by xtruroyaltyx View Post
All zone schemes aren't created equal.

From my understanding this will be more of a power type zone whereas kubiaks was more on the finesse side.
I'll bow to your greater knowledge of the OL but from what I saw, Kubiak started a good deal removed from that pure finesse Gibbs zone, then moved to it when he brought Gibbs in, then when Gibbs left and Dennison came in, they moved back to more of a power oriented zone with a lot of stuff up the middle. And I think you could see that with the drafting of someone like Brooks.

I don't think there's going to be huge departure in what the OL is going to be asked to do from what it was being asked to do.

But... like I said... you know more about OL play than I do.
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Old 06-15-2014   #49
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
He's going to become less capable because the guys around him are bigger?
No but on 3rd or 4th and 1, or goal line and short, where the ZBS shows its vulnerabilities and the straight power plays become so important.........the middle, which is then especially so important, will be at its weakest.
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Old 06-15-2014   #50
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
No but on 3rd or 4th and 1, or goal line and short, where the ZBS shows its vulnerabilities and the straight power plays become so important.........the middle, which is then especially so important, will be at its weakest.
He's been to the pro bowl twice (and likely would have gone last year but for being on a 2 win team) and Foster has led the league in rushing TDs with him at center. There's a long list of worse "weaknesses" than him not having a few extra pounds. Seems like a classic case of form over substance.
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Old 06-15-2014   #51
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Default Re: Center Battle

Myers is one of the better C's in football. Might not be the most physical, but he calls a great game for the OLine.
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Old 06-15-2014   #52
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Default Re: Center Battle

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
I'll bow to your greater knowledge of the OL but from what I saw, Kubiak started a good deal removed from that pure finesse Gibbs zone, then moved to it when he brought Gibbs in, then when Gibbs left and Dennison came in, they moved back to more of a power oriented zone with a lot of stuff up the middle. And I think you could see that with the drafting of someone like Brooks.

I don't think there's going to be huge departure in what the OL is going to be asked to do from what it was being asked to do.

But... like I said... you know more about OL play than I do.
Nah man...I dont discount anyone's thoughts. I enjoy the conversation as long as it doesn't get condescending. I don't know everything, but we all know what we know...ya know?

But you are right...in the colts game where Arian gashed them a few years ago to start the season...we were running a lot of inside stuff.

And really I'm wouldn't cement my thoughts on anything ob is going to do. I have my thoughts/hunches...but he's pretty much said he intends on mixing **** up, so who knows...

As far as Chris is concerned...I think he'll be fine. He's gotten a lot better since he first arrived. Titans wanted him when munchak was there right?
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Old 06-15-2014   #53
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
I just have this feeling that OB is going to want a heavier center. Meyers not only gives up 20 pounds to Jones, but he gives up about the same to many of the D's he faces.
You don't have to be big to be an awesome center. Consider Mike Webster who used to play for Pittsburgh.
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The problem with this statement is the belief that OB doesn't use a ZBS.

He does.
But not exclusively, let us hope.
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Old 06-15-2014   #54
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Default Re: Center Battle

My concern is Myers has played in a shift to one side or other catching the defense at an angle not pushing straight ahead with muscle against muscle. As I understand he and the other Oline will be in more of a power attack mode. I prefer that but not sure how he will perform. He has stated IIRC before last season that he is successful as he is able to get low and engage the opponent; maybe that will continue but I'm not optimistic. Ben Jones is 6'3" and about 315.
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Old 06-15-2014   #55
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
My concern is Myers has played in a shift to one side or other catching the defense at an angle not pushing straight ahead with muscle against muscle. As I understand he and the other Oline will be in more of a power attack mode. I prefer that but not sure how he will perform. He has stated IIRC before last season that he is successful as he is able to get low and engage the opponent; maybe that will continue but I'm not optimistic. Ben Jones is 6'3" and about 315.
The C for one of the greatest power rushing OLs in NFL history was 6' 2" 269 lbs on a heavy day.
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Old 06-15-2014   #56
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Default Re: Center Battle

PFF top 2 overall rated Cs in 2013...

Jason Kelce 6'03" Weight: 290

Dominic Raiola 6'01" Weight: 295

Myers (6'4"/286) was rated 2nd/35 Cs in run blocking in 2013.

He would have been the top overall rated C except for a horrid game in week 17 vs. Denver. His pass blocking fell off in 2013 with Wade's bad year and QB carousel. I'm not as worried as Doc is, but agree we need to have an eye on the future there.
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Old 06-15-2014   #57
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
The C for one of the greatest power rushing OLs in NFL history was 6' 2" 269 lbs on a heavy day.
One guy really does not overwhelm my concerns.
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Old 06-15-2014   #58
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
PFF top 2 overall rated Cs in 2013...

Jason Kelce 6'03" Weight: 290

Dominic Raiola 6'01" Weight: 295

Myers (6'4"/286) was rated 2nd/35 Cs in run blocking in 2013.

He would have been the top overall rated C except for a horrid game in week 17 vs. Denver. His pass blocking fell off in 2013 with Wade's bad year and QB carousel. I'm not as worried as Doc is, but agree we need to have an eye on the future there.
yes but the rub blocking Myers was rated in was a
ZBS not the same as he will be in now. I'm not saying he will fail. I am just not optimistic.
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Old 06-15-2014   #59
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Default Re: Center Battle

Is Ben jones much bigger than Meyers?

I don't remember seeing them next to each other and thinking one was much bigger than the other.

Looked up their weights and it looks like jones is about 20lbs heavier...but is he as good? That's what's most important...
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Old 06-15-2014   #60
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Default Re: Center Battle

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
One guy really does not overwhelm my concerns.
There are a few thousand examples of 310 lb+ fat asses sitting at home watching NFL games on Sundays while Myers has started and excelled for the past 112 straight games because guys actually paid to make NFL decisions decided he was the right guy for the job.

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Looked up their weights and it looks like jones is about 20lbs heavier...but is he as good? That's what's most important...
That's all I am getting at. It's not like we are talking about trotting Trindon Holliday out there to play C and so any 310 lb dude will be an upgrade.
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