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Old 06-09-2014   #341
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I don't know where you get the info from.



1. Arm.

Ourlads has record of QB ball velocity and Keenum doesn't have a weak arm.

It shows he has stronger arm then either Schaub or Yates.

There were plenty of game films that I had mentioned in my many posts on instances where he threw across his body, etc.



2. Blitz and pressure.

PFF has their own independent study, showing that Keenum was better than some names that command big paydays out there.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...and-the-blitz/



In fact, he was doing this with a near to bottom pass pro (check the Keenum's thread for numbers from independent studies from SI and PFF), a decimated running game, poor ST, a D that gave up a ton of points, and against 5 top ten defensive teams against points allowed.



For a first - time starter, that is at least a very encouraging sign.

There is only one stat that Keenum is highly rated at that is record as a starter 0-8 even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes.
1. Arm isn't stronger than Yates maybe about the same. Eye test watched him and Yates at open practice and thought Yates had a stronger arm.
2. Eye test and actual game tape says he sucks at picking up the blitz. Unless running backwards and loosing lots of yards is good.



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Old 06-09-2014   #342
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Default Re: Ryan Fitzpatrick visiting Texans (signs)

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There is only one stat that Keenum is highly rated at that is record as a starter 0-8 even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes.
1. Arm isn't stronger than Yates maybe about the same. Eye test watched him and Yates at open practice and thought Yates had a stronger arm.
2. Eye test and actual game tape says he sucks at picking up the blitz. Unless running backwards and loosing lots of yards is good.



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Let's start with the records first.
So you're saying that a QB with a terrible first year record should be ditched, and not even considered for the backup job?

Well, there would have been many who never made it to the HOF let alone having a starting jobs in the NFL for years.
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Old 06-09-2014   #343
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Default Re: Ryan Fitzpatrick visiting Texans (signs)

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There is only one stat that Keenum is highly rated at that is record as a starter 0-8 even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes.
1. Arm isn't stronger than Yates maybe about the same. Eye test watched him and Yates at open practice and thought Yates had a stronger arm.
2. Eye test and actual game tape says he sucks at picking up the blitz. Unless running backwards and loosing lots of yards is good.



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As far as eyes test, please remember practice is just that, practice.
You talked about game film, I've shown through different posts where and when Keenum made a certain throw that shows arm strength.
Can you do the same with Yates?

I would love to compare.

Thanks.
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Old 06-09-2014   #344
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Let's start with the records first.

So you're saying that a QB with a terrible first year record should be ditched, and not even considered for the backup job?



Well, there would have been many who never made it to the HOF let alone having a starting jobs in the NFL for years.

No I'm just saying Kenuum isn't a very good QB and **** his pants when he got his chance. He didn't show enough to keep giving him chances. The reason he wasn't draft is he just not very good and honestly he'd be a good 3rd or a below average to average 2nd.


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Old 06-09-2014   #345
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Default Re: Ryan Fitzpatrick visiting Texans (signs)

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There is only one stat that Keenum is highly rated at that is record as a starter 0-8 even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes.
1. Arm isn't stronger than Yates maybe about the same. Eye test watched him and Yates at open practice and thought Yates had a stronger arm.
2. Eye test and actual game tape says he sucks at picking up the blitz. Unless running backwards and loosing lots of yards is good.



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As far as picking up the blitzes, I have already gone through them in the Keenum's thread as well.
If you disagree, as you said you have game tapes, let it be known there in that thread.
Shouldn't be too hard now, is it?
I mean, I had done a bunch of leg work already.
All you need to do is to tack on.
It's always good to have football discussions rather than eye tests.
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Old 06-09-2014   #346
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Default Re: Ryan Fitzpatrick visiting Texans (signs)

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No I'm just saying Kenuum isn't a very good QB and **** his pants when he got his chance. He didn't show enough to keep giving him chances. The reason he wasn't draft is he just not very good and honestly he'd be a good 3rd or a below average to average 2nd.


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We can just stick to this for now.
If he can be either 2nd or 3rd, why would you want to cut him?
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Old 06-09-2014   #347
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As far as eyes test, please remember practice is just that, practice.

You talked about game film, I've shown through different posts where and when Keenum made a certain throw that shows arm strength.

Can you do the same with Yates?



I would love to compare.



Thanks.

Okay he makes one or two good passes then takes 2 or 3 sacks for 10 or more yards each is just poor QB play and most of his bad sacks for big losses were his fault not the OLs fault.


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Old 06-09-2014   #348
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We can just stick to this for now.

If he can be either 2nd or 3rd, why would you want to cut him?

I personally think Yates is a better fit for BOBs system.


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Old 06-09-2014   #349
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Default Re: Ryan Fitzpatrick visiting Texans (signs)

Texans will keep Yates over Keenum unless OB actually sees Keenum as the potential answer at QB for two reasons...

1. Yates walking in FA could net a compensatory pick next year.

2. Why keep a 3rd string QB that could cause a headache for the organization because of his local hero status? (It amuses me that some of the keenum fandom may actually cause him to be cut. That's a funny thought!)
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Old 06-09-2014   #350
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Default Re: Ryan Fitzpatrick visiting Texans (signs)

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Okay he makes one or two good passes then takes 2 or 3 sacks for 10 or more yards each is just poor QB play and most of his bad sacks for big losses were his fault not the OLs fault.


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Keenum didnt help by holding onto the ball and trying to make stuff happen. But to many times last season the D had already blown through the line before keenum could even take his 3 step drop. So a lot of the sacks were on the line. Just watch the film.
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Old 06-09-2014   #351
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Default Re: Ryan Fitzpatrick visiting Texans (signs)

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Okay he makes one or two good passes then takes 2 or 3 sacks for 10 or more yards each is just poor QB play and most of his bad sacks for big losses were his fault not the OLs fault.


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There are several factors here.

Yes, we can simply look at the numbers where SI and PFF call unblocked sacks.
It is true that he did take quite a few, but the majority were on third down when a QB either makes a play or you punt the ball. I can't remember for sure, but two or three were in the first game, against a stout Chiefs front, on the road, in his first game as a starter.

He did make some mistakes in other games as well, but there was less; I don't see how people can call it regressing.

I don't have to study all the sacks; but looking at the numbers provided by PFF, the unblocked sacks were mostly committed by young QBs. (Though Romo was terrible as a veteran.)
And Romo got a big contract.

I understand that we as fans want a bad a QB.
Where do we find that guy?
OB wasn't looking for one in the last draft.
He wasn't looking for one in FA.

Think about that.

Yates made unforced errors.

Blitzing is usually done when the opponents think that they have a better overall chance to stop an offense.
It might be a weakness in the QB, the run game, the protection, the receivers, etc.

There are plenty more numbers you can look it to complement the game tape.
The number of drops by receivers for example, from Schaub to Keenum.

I mean, you can look at all the relevant stats out there.
From protection, to running game, to drops.

At the moment, I'm just saying that Keenum had done well enough to be on the roster.
Yates, not so much.
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Old 06-09-2014   #352
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Default Re: Ryan Fitzpatrick visiting Texans (signs)

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Texans will keep Yates over Keenum unless OB actually sees Keenum as the potential answer at QB for two reasons...

1. Yates walking in FA could net a compensatory pick next year.

2. Why keep a 3rd string QB that could cause a headache for the organization because of his local hero status? (It amuses me that some of the keenum fandom may actually cause him to be cut. That's a funny thought!)
Please elaborate.

I would hate to respond to something I don't quite understand.
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Old 06-09-2014   #353
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Default Re: Ryan Fitzpatrick visiting Texans (signs)

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In OTA, when there's no live bullets flying, he would have to impress a lot to counter the negative game films.
We signed Ryan Fitzpatrick to be in our QB mix. I don't think negative game film carries the weight you or I think negative game film should.
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Old 06-09-2014   #354
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Default Re: Ryan Fitzpatrick visiting Texans (signs)

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I just think Keenum is the better player.
I think he has a good shot of overtaking Fitz for the gig.
Can't say the same about Yates.
I think their chances of getting Andre to camp is higher if they name Case the starter going into mini-camp. They may play it out though & not name him the starter until camp. Helps the appearance of "competition."

With Case, Graham, & Newton starting, it "should" look more like a retooling to Andre, than a rebuild.
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Old 06-09-2014   #355
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He (McGloin) was. Yes.
But OB had choices.
He did not try to keep guys with bigger size.
He allowed them (at least one) to transfer.
I think he also had an opportunity to get Tom Savage, but turned him down.
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Old 06-09-2014   #356
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Default Re: Ryan Fitzpatrick visiting Texans (signs)

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Let's start with the records first.
So you're saying that a QB with a terrible first year record should be ditched, and not even considered for the backup job?

Well, there would have been many who never made it to the HOF let alone having a starting jobs in the NFL for years.
I don't think that's what he's saying, if you're choosing between two QBs, one of them is 0-7 as a starter & the other is 3-3... You've got to look at it. Yates was on a much better team, so you have to take that into account, however that team was hit by a lot of injuries as well as Keenum's team.

That team was known for it's "next man up" mentality which Yates contributed to. Keenum's team was pretty much prone to falling apart, & Keenum contributed to that.

The ball was in Yates' hands a certain number of times with the opportunity to get the lead & win the game. He pulled it off, at least twice that I can think of, with "great" "gutsy" play.

The ball was in Keenum's hands a certain number of times with the opportunity to get the lead & win the game. He pulled it off once that I can think of, only to be failed by a fat Hobbit. The other times, the offense would move backwards.
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Old 06-09-2014   #357
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I don't think that's what he's saying, if you're choosing between two QBs, one of them is 0-7 as a starter & the other is 3-3... You've got to look at it. Yates was on a much better team, so you have to take that into account, however that team was hit by a lot of injuries as well as Keenum's team.

That team was known for it's "next man up" mentality which Yates contributed to. Keenum's team was pretty much prone to falling apart, & Keenum contributed to that.

The ball was in Yates' hands a certain number of times with the opportunity to get the lead & win the game. He pulled it off, at least twice that I can think of, with "great" "gutsy" play.

The ball was in Keenum's hands a certain number of times with the opportunity to get the lead & win the game. He pulled it off once that I can think of, only to be failed by a fat Hobbit. The other times, the offense would move backwards.
Dont forget Yates also had the best RB in football there to help him.
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Old 06-09-2014   #358
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Keenum didnt help by holding onto the ball and trying to make stuff happen. But to many times last season the D had already blown through the line before keenum could even take his 3 step drop. So a lot of the sacks were on the line. Just watch the film.

I did watch the film that's why I have no problem stating that Kenuum isn't starter quality. Kenuum should be and 3rd on a good team or a 2nd on a bad team. By the way I'm UofH fan and loved Kenuum in college, but I just think as a pro he just doesn't get it.


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Old 06-09-2014   #359
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Default Re: Ryan Fitzpatrick visiting Texans (signs)

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Texans will keep Yates over Keenum unless OB actually sees Keenum as the potential answer at QB for two reasons...

1. Yates walking in FA could net a compensatory pick next year.

2. Why keep a 3rd string QB that could cause a headache for the organization because of his local hero status? (It amuses me that some of the keenum fandom may actually cause him to be cut. That's a funny thought!)
I've got to imagine Rick Smith is doing his job & is shopping both Keenum & Yates. Whoever gets the biggest nibble is probably gone.
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Old 06-09-2014   #360
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Default Re: Ryan Fitzpatrick visiting Texans (signs)

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I did watch the film that's why I have no problem stating that Kenuum isn't starter quality. Kenuum should be and 3rd on a good team or a 2nd on a bad team. By the way I'm UofH fan and loved Kenuum in college, but I just think as a pro he just doesn't get it.


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Well you have to take all things into consideration when evaluating him. Like no foster, an injured Ben Tate an injured Newton. Our offensive "mastermind" having a stroke. Kubiak breathing down his neck wanting to pull him first chance he gets. If you just look sat his record and sack yardage then hell yeah he sucks, but that is far from the whole story.

BTW i am a Tom Savage supporter so i am unbiased as well
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