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Old 05-29-2014   #301
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

BTW, I also slotted Glennon in the third round.
For me, I stated that he looks a bit like Matt Schaub, but more mobile.
His footwork is better.
For me, this guy has better potential than Guys drafted ahead of him like Geno Smith or Emanuel.
He's just not sexy and kinda out of vogue at the time because the other guys can do more with their feet
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Old 05-29-2014   #302
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Agreed. If he or Tj does not beat out Fitzpatrick, they should both be gone & we should go with Fitz & Savage as the only two QBs on the roster. We can pick up Brett Smith to run the scout team.



All the QBs I mentioned needed (needs) help. Ryan, Newton, Rivers... we've all seen them look great on teams with good running games & defenses, and we've seen them look lacking on teams without good running games/defense.




I get that same feeling. I hope so. But does he have the clout in the locker room to pull it off? I don't think Del Rio ever recovered from his QB shuffle when Garrard played well enough to get them to the play offs & he stuck Leftwhich back in the game, or Wade benching Flutie, or to a greater extent, Chucky letting Trent Dilfer go.



Your line of thought is no different than mine. May the best QB win.

However, I think they signed Fitzpatrick & not Vick to make it easier for Case/Yates to win the job.
Good points. I'll have to think on some of them a bit. I'm not totally sold on the Ryan comment about needing help. Last season he had no chance. That OL was gawd-awful and the defense gave up a ton of points. The Falcons have a much easier road to the playoffs than the Texans. I see last season as an anomaly for them and they aren't starting from scratch with a new coaching staff.

As far as drafting a QB under the earlier scenario, that's not the apples to apples. That would apply more to Kubiak losing the locker room last season, waffling between Keenum and Schaub. Hell, who's to say players weren't supporting TJ more than the other two?

If BO'B drafts a QB and applies the same competition rules that apply to every other position, how can he lose the locker room? He can only lose the locker room by giving in to pressure to play the #1 draft pick. IMO, he has the stones to play the guy he thinks gives them the best chance to win. Granted, I'm giving a whole lot on the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 05-29-2014   #303
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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BTW, I also slotted Glennon in the third round.
For me, I stated that he looks a bit like Matt Schaub, but more mobile.
His footwork is better.
For me, this guy has better potential than Guys drafted ahead of him like Geno Smith or Emanuel.
He's just not sexy and kinda out of vogue at the time because the other guys can do more with their feet
I agree. I have very little faith in Smith or Emanuel being above average QB's. I liked Glennon's play last season.
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Old 05-29-2014   #304
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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I'll have to think on some of them a bit. I'm not totally sold on the Ryan comment about needing help. Last season he had no chance. That OL was gawd-awful and the defense gave up a ton of points.
That's pretty much my point. No run game/defense... he doesn't look much better than Case Keenum. Give him a run game/defense, he could win it all (I'm not saying Case can, we haven't seen him with a good run game/defense).

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The Falcons have a much easier road to the playoffs than the Texans. I see last season as an anomaly for them and they aren't starting from scratch with a new coaching staff.
Uh... They've got to compete against the Saints & an up & coming Carolina just to get to the dance. Then they have to go through two of GreenBay, Seattle, San Francisco, maybe Chicago, Arizona, Philly.

All we've got to do is beat Luck out for the Division & avoid New England in the play offs.

Sometimes a new coach jump starts a team. They're going on year seven under Mike Smith & have two play off wins to show for it... sooner or later, guys stop buying in to what the HC is selling. I think that's where we were last season.
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If BO'B drafts a QB and applies the same competition rules that apply to every other position, how can he lose the locker room? He can only lose the locker room by giving in to pressure to play the #1 draft pick. IMO, he has the stones to play the guy he thinks gives them the best chance to win. Granted, I'm giving a whole lot on the benefit of the doubt.
People are funny about their QB.
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Old 05-29-2014   #305
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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I agree. I have very little faith in Smith or Emanuel being above average QB's. I liked Glennon's play last season.
I didn't watch any of these guys in college, but Ej Manuel looks like the real deal.
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Old 05-29-2014   #306
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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That's pretty much my point. No run game/defense... he doesn't look much better than Case Keenum. Give him a run game/defense, he could win it all (I'm not saying Case can, we haven't seen him with a good run game/defense).



Uh... They've got to compete against the Saints & an up & coming Carolina just to get to the dance. Then they have to go through two of GreenBay, Seattle, San Francisco, maybe Chicago, Arizona, Philly.

All we've got to do is beat Luck out for the Division & avoid New England in the play offs.

Sometimes a new coach jump starts a team. They're going on year seven under Mike Smith & have two play off wins to show for it... sooner or later, guys stop buying in to what the HC is selling. I think that's where we were last season.


People are funny about their QB.
HAHAHA!!! Again, good points.

The Falcons only have to out win 2 of the teams you listed to get to the playoffs. They have a team that is closer to 13-3 than 3-13. I'll agree that the Texan's have the talent of a 12-4 team instead of a 4-12 team, but the new coaching staff is the clincher for me. I expect to see the Texan's struggle early in the season and make strides as the season progresses. I expect to see the Falcon's contend for their division championship. I expect to see the Texan's contend for the division championship in 2015.

Having said all of that, my printed out Texan's 2014 schedule has 10 wins highlighted on it. Much to the amusement of my sAint's buddy at work.

My glasses get foggy sometimes.
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Old 05-29-2014   #307
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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I expect to see the Texan's struggle early in the season and make strides as the season progresses.
I'm not seeing that at all. I think the Texans are going to start the season with one of those hits that makes everyone in the stands say ouch. Jj Watt, Cushing, Nix or Clowney is going to put someone on their ass in a bad way... then they're going to try to one-up each other all year long.

Our average field position is going to be our 47 yard line. Our offense is only going to have to be half as good as it ever was & our defense is going to score 9 points a game.

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Having said all of that, my printed out Texan's 2014 schedule has 10 wins highlighted on it. Much to the amusement of my sAint's buddy at work.
Tell him Katrina was nine years ago. It's time to go back home.
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Old 05-29-2014   #308
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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I'm not seeing that at all. I think the Texans are going to start the season with one of those hits that makes everyone in the stands say ouch. Jj Watt, Cushing, Nix or Clowney is going to put someone on their ass in a bad way... then they're going to try to one-up each other all year long.

Our average field position is going to be our 47 yard line. Our offense is only going to have to be half as good as it ever was & our defense is going to score 9 points a game.



Tell him Katrina was nine years ago. It's time to go back home.
LOL. He knows. We were both in NO 2 weeks after Katrina. Had to evac for Rita. He currently resides in Sayre, Ok., so yeah...he might have a storm bunker, but not for hurricanes.
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Old 05-30-2014   #309
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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See... I think "people" want Fitzpatrick to start because he is not a threat to our "future" QB. Whether we're winning or not, we're going to continue to look for a "future" QB.

If Case is winning, not so much. & regardless how well Case plays, that' just not good enough. If he sucks, fine, we'll toss him & move on. But if we're 10-6 and 1 & done in the play offs... we're going to pass on a first round QB. & some people are just not good with that.
If this post were in the political forum, you would be called a Ron-bot. Case would be the GOAT if it weren't for everyone out to get him.

So what if Yates goes 10-6 this year with a 1 & done in the playoffs? What about Savage? Do we still look for a QB in the draft or is it off the board?
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Old 05-30-2014   #310
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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If this post were in the political forum, you would be called a Ron-bot. Case would be the GOAT if it weren't for everyone out to get him.

So what if Yates goes 10-6 this year with a 1 & done in the playoffs? What about Savage? Do we still look for a QB in the draft or is it off the board?
I'm good with all of the above. Doesn't matter to me who starts.

I'll flat out tell you Case doesn't deserve squat. He got a shot last year & he didn't show me that he belongs. But it appears he's getting another shot regardless.

I believe the same "fear factor" holds true with Tj. If we go 10-6 with Yates as our starter, I think many here will be upset because we'll most likely pass on a first round QB.

Then again, I think we should pass on a first round QB even if we go 6-10, depending on who's there.
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Old 05-30-2014   #311
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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I'm good with all of the above. Doesn't matter to me who starts.

I'll flat out tell you Case doesn't deserve squat. He got a shot last year & he didn't show me that he belongs. But it appears he's getting another shot regardless.

I believe the same "fear factor" holds true with Tj. If we go 10-6 with Yates as our starter, I think many here will be upset because we'll most likely pass on a first round QB.

Then again, I think we should pass on a first round QB even if we go 6-10, depending on who's there.
Fair enough. Appreciate the perspective. I personally think that with fans in general and on this board specifically, CK is going to be a distraction. I have a feeling that BO'B could give a squat what us fans think.
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Old 05-30-2014   #312
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Fair enough. Appreciate the perspective. I personally think that with fans in general and on this board specifically, CK is going to be a distraction. I have a feeling that BO'B could give a squat what us fans think.

And OB not giving a squat what fans think is the way it should be!
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Old 05-30-2014   #313
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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So why even start him? He's a 31 year old back up. Unless we're expecting him to be the next Rich Gannon (which wouldn't be bad thing). But if we know he's not going to be anything special, I don't get why we want to put him out there. He is what he is & frankly that is not good enough. We know it's not good enough.

Fitzpatrick may not be a long term solution...but his numbers suggest that he's not that bad...it's when he asked to do too much is when he gets in trouble. & when you consider the trainwrecks franchises he played for....i could easily see him matching his 2010 campaign.

Well, like you said, the 31 year old is what he is. A back up. I like Tj, but the last game I saw him really play, he was tossing the ball up for Ed Reed to go get it. Last year's game against St. Louis, pretty much ended the same way. If OB can teach him to make better decisions, it would make more sense to me to start Tj.

Keenum, the only problem I've got with him is not knowing the situation & knowing when he can/should extend a play & when he can/should throw it away, or take a sack. I don't recall ever thinking, "Why did he throw that there?"

& we definitely won't know if Fitzpatrick is the starter. Personally, I don't care if it's Tj or Case.

I too don't care if its Fitz, TJ, Case, Savage..... or even VY...so long as whomever it is gives us the best chance to win in 2014. Where we're not agreeing is a few in here are indirectly saying that Keenum is our best option to start..When in reality experience, measureables and what these guys have accomplished as starters.....suggest otherwise.

Not a rebuild.

Ok, a "retooling" if that sounds better. Regardless, there's a new offense to learn. And seeing as Keenum's only known Kubiak's qb friendly offense, there is a learning curve he as a young player is gonna have to overcome which will set his progression as a viable NFL qb back.

Definitely won't know anything more about his potential if he's on the bench.

fair enough...but if he's on the bench, chances are it wasn't b/c BoB had a bias towards him ...it was b/c the other guy(s) beat him out & showed more.

Kinda like Stafford, Ryan, Bradford, Newton, Flacco, Rivers.... everybody but Brady, Peyton, & obviously Luck? It's a team game, whether Case is starting or not.

Lol, all these guys were 1st rounders with better physical tools than Keenum. All of them also won at least 2 games on the bad teams they were drafted to. All of that, (but mostly the 1st 2 reasons) are why those guys got the benefit of the doubt.

See... I think "people" want Fitzpatrick to start because he is not a threat to our "future" QB. Whether we're winning or not, we're going to continue to look for a "future" QB.

You simply can't know that at this point. For all we know, BoB might think the future is already here in Savage & he just wants to buy time to get a solid group of core players around him to start him. Keenum even playing mediocore has the potential to make that a difficult transition as fans would still be holding onto the "fix this around him" mentality & maybe even a few team members might cause a stir. Either way, every coach wants to go down with "their" guy and the reality of it is Keenum is a holdover from the previous regime as is TJ.

If Case is winning, not so much. & regardless how well Case plays, that' just not good enough. If he sucks, fine, we'll toss him & move on. But if we're 10-6 and 1 & done in the play offs... we're going to pass on a first round QB. & some people are just not good with that.

Would you be good with that? I certainly wouldn't be. I mean fine, if 10-6 and 1 and done in the playoffs is all were looking for, we could've kept Schaub around here for that....


It's like some people think we'd be better off as a franchise if we miss the play offs in 2014 & draft a QB than if Case Keenum (or Tj Yates for that matter) gets us to the AFC Championship game.
Because the qb position is so important, we very well could be better off. I'm sure folks in here would gladly trade 1 AFC championship game appearance in 2014 for a franchise qb for the next 10 years...a guy who has the potential to take us to multiple AFC championship games and beyond.
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Old 05-30-2014   #314
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

This is what I will say.

From my observations of OTAs etc so far, Case Keenum is getting more than a fair shot for someone who was once a UDFA and the previous coach's pet project.

O'Brien told me that they are trying to equalize reps right now until they get to the point they need to increase the reps for the person who needs to prepare to start.

That the competition is wide open. I'm unsure how wide open it really is in terms of talent/ability, but what I can tell is rep wise, Case Keenum is getting a ton of work. He is getting a very fair shot with the work he is getting.

It is in the coach's best interest to put the guy on the field who he thinks is best for the team. So lots of tire kicking is going on.

What happened in the past, or college or whatever, that is just a waste of typing.

New system. New requirements of what you need for quarterback. Lots of demands on the quarterback's ability to change plays.

If I were guessing right this second, I don't think CK will be the future of this offense because I don't think the pocket nature of the offense and the types of throws demanded is best suited for him, but he is getting a chance to prove himself.
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Old 05-30-2014   #315
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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This is what I will say.

From my observations of OTAs etc so far, Case Keenum is getting more than a fair shot for someone who was once a UDFA and the previous coach's pet project.

O'Brien told me that they are trying to equalize reps right now until they get to the point they need to increase the reps for the person who needs to prepare to start.

That the competition is wide open. I'm unsure how wide open it really is in terms of talent/ability, but what I can tell is rep wise, Case Keenum is getting a ton of work. He is getting a very fair shot with the work he is getting.

It is in the coach's best interest to put the guy on the field who he thinks is best for the team. So lots of tire kicking is going on.

What happened in the past, or college or whatever, that is just a waste of typing.

New system. New requirements of what you need for quarterback. Lots of demands on the quarterback's ability to change plays.

If I were guessing right this second, I don't think CK will be the future of this offense because I don't think the pocket nature of the offense and the types of throws demanded is best suited for him, but he is getting a chance to prove himself.


That's all he can ask for ... I hope he makes it here ... if not, I believe he will make it somewhere else.
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Old 05-30-2014   #316
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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This is what I will say.

From my observations of OTAs etc so far, Case Keenum is getting more than a fair shot for someone who was once a UDFA and the previous coach's pet project.

O'Brien told me that they are trying to equalize reps right now until they get to the point they need to increase the reps for the person who needs to prepare to start.

That the competition is wide open. I'm unsure how wide open it really is in terms of talent/ability, but what I can tell is rep wise, Case Keenum is getting a ton of work. He is getting a very fair shot with the work he is getting.

It is in the coach's best interest to put the guy on the field who he thinks is best for the team. So lots of tire kicking is going on.

What happened in the past, or college or whatever, that is just a waste of typing.

New system. New requirements of what you need for quarterback. Lots of demands on the quarterback's ability to change plays.

If I were guessing right this second, I don't think CK will be the future of this offense because I don't think the pocket nature of the offense and the types of throws demanded is best suited for him, but he is getting a chance to prove himself.
Good post, TC. Thanks!

I don't care who starts the season at QB. I'm pulling for the coaching staff to make the right decision on who starts, rather than pulling for a particular player.
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Old 05-30-2014   #317
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
This is what I will say.

From my observations of OTAs etc so far, Case Keenum is getting more than a fair shot for someone who was once a UDFA and the previous coach's pet project.

O'Brien told me that they are trying to equalize reps right now until they get to the point they need to increase the reps for the person who needs to prepare to start.

That the competition is wide open. I'm unsure how wide open it really is in terms of talent/ability, but what I can tell is rep wise, Case Keenum is getting a ton of work. He is getting a very fair shot with the work he is getting.

It is in the coach's best interest to put the guy on the field who he thinks is best for the team. So lots of tire kicking is going on.

What happened in the past, or college or whatever, that is just a waste of typing.

New system. New requirements of what you need for quarterback. Lots of demands on the quarterback's ability to change plays.

If I were guessing right this second, I don't think CK will be the future of this offense because I don't think the pocket nature of the offense and the types of throws demanded is best suited for him, but he is getting a chance to prove himself.
Good post as always TC..
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Old 05-30-2014   #318
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
This is what I will say.

From my observations of OTAs etc so far, Case Keenum is getting more than a fair shot for someone who was once a UDFA and the previous coach's pet project.

O'Brien told me that they are trying to equalize reps right now until they get to the point they need to increase the reps for the person who needs to prepare to start.

That the competition is wide open. I'm unsure how wide open it really is in terms of talent/ability, but what I can tell is rep wise, Case Keenum is getting a ton of work. He is getting a very fair shot with the work he is getting.

It is in the coach's best interest to put the guy on the field who he thinks is best for the team. So lots of tire kicking is going on.

What happened in the past, or college or whatever, that is just a waste of typing.

New system. New requirements of what you need for quarterback. Lots of demands on the quarterback's ability to change plays.

If I were guessing right this second, I don't think CK will be the future of this offense because I don't think the pocket nature of the offense and the types of throws demanded is best suited for him, but he is getting a chance to prove himself.
I know I'm just an echo here, but great post as always!
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Old 05-30-2014   #319
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
This is what I will say.

From my observations of OTAs etc so far, Case Keenum is getting more than a fair shot for someone who was once a UDFA and the previous coach's pet project.

O'Brien told me that they are trying to equalize reps right now until they get to the point they need to increase the reps for the person who needs to prepare to start.

That the competition is wide open. I'm unsure how wide open it really is in terms of talent/ability, but what I can tell is rep wise, Case Keenum is getting a ton of work. He is getting a very fair shot with the work he is getting.

It is in the coach's best interest to put the guy on the field who he thinks is best for the team. So lots of tire kicking is going on.

What happened in the past, or college or whatever, that is just a waste of typing.

New system. New requirements of what you need for quarterback. Lots of demands on the quarterback's ability to change plays.

If I were guessing right this second, I don't think CK will be the future of this offense because I don't think the pocket nature of the offense and the types of throws demanded is best suited for him, but he is getting a chance to prove himself.
Now Texans Chick, what the heck are you doing posting such a well reasoned and objective take like this in such a reactionary thread?

Good stuff, as always! MSR
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Old 05-30-2014   #320
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

Unless O'Brien changes drastically from his days in NE and Penn St., it will be a mix of shotguns and under center.

But that matters little if at all.
I remember at least 3 TDs Keenum threw to AJ from under center and one to Graham.

And Graham actually saw a few more balls with Keenum than with Schaub.

Keenum had a lot of freedom in college at the LOS to call and change plays and he's very used to running an offense at breakneck pace.

And how about that TD to AJ when Keenum faked like he wanted the guys to line up so he an spike the ball, but instead he threw the ball to AJ for a TD?
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