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Old 05-21-2014   #121
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

No. No he is not.
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Old 05-21-2014   #122
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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I remember quite a few sacks Schaub took because he didn't see the unblocked Blitzer off the edge.

That was after Schaub had been in the league for a while.
I believe we still saw it in his second year with the Texans.

They should have cut that dude a long time ago, LOL.
If that's what you're getting out of what I said, then we're just speaking a different language.

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I seem to recall Tony Romo with a few bonehead plays after he had played several years.

Favreau was famous for that; so was Warren Moon.

I mean how do these guys not get cut?
Again, you appear to be talking to two different people. All I said was that he did nothing to stop us from taking a QB in the first three rounds & that he does not "deserve" to start.

However, if he does not beat Fitzpatrick (& with your knowledge you should know it's far easier than not) he should be let go. We should move on.
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Old 05-21-2014   #123
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Old 05-21-2014   #124
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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If that's what you're getting out of what I said, then we're just speaking a different language.
Some not the best QBS made stupid plays even deep into their careers.
Keenum needs to make more plays to compensate the mistakes he made.

That is why he's not given the starting job by OB.

Does it sound like I don't understand you, TK?
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Old 05-21-2014   #125
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Some not the best QBS made stupid plays even deep into their careers.
Keenum needs to make more plays to compensate the mistakes he made.

That is why he's not given the starting job by OB.

Does it sound like I don't understand you, TK?
This, yes. Wondering why we didn't cut Schaub because he failed on a few occasions out of many to not pick up a free blitzer, not so much.

It's not about making stupid plays either, it's about not making enough positive plays.
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Old 05-21-2014   #126
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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I want him to throw it away. I don't want to see him "giving up" nine yards. There are 46 other players out there, plus coaches who are thinking, "We've got to make up that 9 yards. Why does this guy think he's the only one out there trying to win this game?"
Because he's a first time starter who doesn't know any better and he thinks that if he doesn't make it happen he's done in this league. Just a classic case of trying to do too much. He isn't the first player to do that nor will he be the last. What I want to see is what you want to see out of Keenum now. Did he learn anything?
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Old 05-21-2014   #127
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Because he's a first time starter who doesn't know any better and he thinks that if he doesn't make it happen he's done in this league. Just a classic case of trying to do too much. He isn't the first player to do that nor will he be the last. What I want to see is what you want to see out of Keenum now. Did he learn anything?
I'd have felt better about it had he learned it sometime during the 8 games he started.

To contrast, Andrew Luck was sacked 41 times for 246 yards. (6 yards/sack)

Henne, in his first 13 games (his sophomore season) was sacked 26 times for 176 yards. (2 yards/sack)

Nick Foles started 6 games as a rookie (drafted in the third) 20 sacks for 131 yards (6.55 yards/sack)

Undrafted Tony Romo started 10 games in his 4th season, 21 sacks 124 yards. (5.9 yards/sack)

Keenum, 19 for 201. (10 yards/sack).

I don't think I'm asking too much. I'm questioning the decisions this kid made & imo, this is an example of where he made the wrong decision time & time again. Red Flag... that's all I'm saying.

Again, I want the kid to succeed more than any QB on our roster at this time. The only thing that I argue is that he "deserves" a chance to prove that he can play better than he did last year. Yes, he was on a bad team last year. But that bad team had a bad QB, bad even for a rookie.
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Old 05-21-2014   #128
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

Terry Bradshaw started 8 games his rookie year.
He played in 14 games.
Bradshaw got credited for 3 wins.
In those wins, his lines are as followed:

A seven to three win over the Oilers
8 of 17 for 208 yards, 1 TD and 3 INTs - 3 rushes for 1 yard

A 23-3 win
3 of 12 for 24 yards, no TD nor INT - 2 rushes for 18 yards.

A 21-10 win
4-12 for 40 yards, no TD nor INT - 3 rushes for 15 yards.

For the year, he completed 38% of his passes (83-218) for 1,410 yards, 6 TDs and 24 INTs

In his second year, he improved the numbers to 54.4% (203-373), 2259 yards, 13 TDS and 22 INTs.

In his third year, it was 47.73% for 1,887 yards, 12 TDs, 12 Ints.


It is quite common, much more common than people realize.
Check out Brees' number in his second and third years.
They were worse than Keenum's

Check out Favre, Tarkenton, Bledsoe, Cunningham, Elway, Fouts, Griese Sr., Archie Manning, Eli, McNair, Moon (NfL), Alex Smith, Theisman to name a fews.
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Old 05-21-2014   #129
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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I'd have felt better about it had he learned it sometime during the 8 games he started.

To contrast, Andrew Luck was sacked 41 times for 246 yards. (6 yards/sack)

Henne, in his first 13 games (his sophomore season) was sacked 26 times for 176 yards. (2 yards/sack)

Nick Foles started 6 games as a rookie (drafted in the third) 20 sacks for 131 yards (6.55 yards/sack)

Undrafted Tony Romo started 10 games in his 4th season, 21 sacks 124 yards. (5.9 yards/sack)

Keenum, 19 for 201. (10 yards/sack).

I don't think I'm asking too much. I'm questioning the decisions this kid made & imo, this is an example of where he made the wrong decision time & time again. Red Flag... that's all I'm saying.

Again, I want the kid to succeed more than any QB on our roster at this time. The only thing that I argue is that he "deserves" a chance to prove that he can play better than he did last year. Yes, he was on a bad team last year. But that bad team had a bad QB, bad even for a rookie.
How many of those sacks were the results of Keenum's mistakes?

All sacks are not created equal.

Remember that Noles was one QB I said I like when a poster asked for my opinion in the college section.
I said he just needs to learn to get rid of the ball sooner, something he obviously worked on quite well.
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Old 05-21-2014   #130
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Terry Bradshaw started 8 games his rookie year.
He played in 14 games.
Bradshaw got credited for 3 wins.
In those wins, his lines are as followed:

A seven to three win over the Oilers
8 of 17 for 208 yards, 1 TD and 3 INTs - 3 rushes for 1 yard

A 23-3 win
3 of 12 for 24 yards, no TD nor INT - 2 rushes for 18 yards.

A 21-10 win
4-12 for 40 yards, no TD nor INT - 3 rushes for 15 yards.

For the year, he completed 38% of his passes (83-218) for 1,410 yards, 6 TDs and 24 INTs

In his second year, he improved the numbers to 54.4% (203-373), 2259 yards, 13 TDS and 22 INTs.

In his third year, it was 47.73% for 1,887 yards, 12 TDs, 12 Ints.


It is quite common, much more common than people realize.
Check out Brees' number in his second and third years.
They were worse than Keenum's

Check out Favre, Tarkenton, Bledsoe, Cunningham, Elway, Fouts, Griese Sr., Archie Manning, Eli, McNair, Moon (NfL), Alex Smith, Theisman to name a fews.
Yeah, I think we've all agreed that we could overlook a lot of Keenum's faults had he won a game. Had he won three, we'd be talking about a Super Bowl appearance in 2014.
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Old 05-21-2014   #131
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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How many of those sacks were the results of Keenum's mistakes?

All sacks are not created equal.

Remember that Noles was one QB I said I like when a poster asked for my opinion in the college section.
I said he just needs to learn to get rid of the ball sooner, something he obviously worked on quite well.
Fales? David Fales?

Anyway, Keenum is going to get another shot. All he has to do is beat out Ryan Fitpatrick. I'd be thrilled if I were a Keenumite. No doubt in my mind that he's going to win the starting job.

I'm just not going to waste a lot of time trying to convince anyone he wasn't "that bad"
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Old 05-21-2014   #132
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Yeah, I think we've all agreed that we could overlook a lot of Keenum's faults had he won a game. Had he won three, we'd be talking about a Super Bowl appearance in 2014.
Are we starting to speak different languages again? LOL.

Got to run, dude.

Working tomorrow.
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Old 05-22-2014   #133
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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That was not my point about the sacks. Though the numbers were the same, more or less, the amount of yards per sack were way out of wack for Case. Those, imo, are stupid plays. The kind of thing we'll be laughing about JFF doing in Cleveland.

That's poor QB play. Similar to taking a snap in the endzone & holding the ball for more than a second. Case did that. Similar to taking the snap at the two yard line & running back into the end zone... Case did that.

I understand looking for a big play, & I admire QBs that take chances. But the ones that stay in the NFL are the ones that take those chances & come out on top more times than not. I did not get that feeling from Case at any time in those last 8 games.

If you're down a score at the end of the game, with the ball in your hands, you need to get those points, you need to win that game. This wasn't 2010 when we'd have a lead & the defense would blow it. In 2013, we went into the 2nd half of most games with a lead, but with Keenum back there, I knew the chances of winning those games were nil. I knew we wouldn't be able to move the ball, or get defensive stops.

I don't get on Case for not winning, for the most part. I get on him for not giving us a chance to win. If you "know" that you can't move the ball in the second half, if you can't put points on the board in the second half, regardless how many you put up in the first, you have almost no chance of winning that game.

The second half, that's when the game gets real. That's when it counts. The closer you get to 0:00 in the 4th qtr, the more real it gets, the greater the pressure gets. Some people, some teams get better the closer you get to 0:00 (Andrew Luck & the Colts)... some don't.

Our team sucked the closer we got to 0:00. Case was not a shining light on that defense, he was part of the problem.
The bolded should be easy fixes. It's much harder to teach a QB to stand in the pocket/hold the ball than throw it away/ROB. I'll take a 10 + yd sack over throwing the ball away or ROB at the 1st signs of pressure. That's soooo David Carr.
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Old 05-22-2014   #134
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

If anything, Keenum is the exact opposite of KJ and Myers. Their first few games with the Texans were nothing short of abysmal. But 8 games in they had made some strides that had people thinking they could develop into quality players.

Keenum came out with both guns blazing and wowed a lot of people and then had a dismal stretch where he threw for under 5 YPA and got benched twice. He was getting worse every game and making people think he can't handle the speed and complexity of the NFL.
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Old 05-22-2014   #135
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

I think we can all agree on something: there should be an open QB competition in camp. People that are wanting to see Keenum want him to win that competition and earn the starting job. People who are argueing against him just doubt his abilities to beat out Fitzpatrick and maybe also Savage.

He won`t be cut before that competition, OB would be stupid to do so. There is a lot to like about Keenum and he was in a pretty bad position last season. But saying he didn`t get his chance is stupid. He´s got a bigger chance than probably 99% of all other UDFA. And he`s earned his chance to get another fair shot in training camp. Nothing more than that so far.
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Old 05-22-2014   #136
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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He´s got a bigger chance than probably 99% of all other UDFA. And he`s earned his chance to get another fair shot in training camp. Nothing more than that so far.
better than 99% of fourth rounders. So has Fitzpatrick.
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Old 05-22-2014   #137
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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If anything, Keenum is the exact opposite of KJ and Myers. Their first few games with the Texans were nothing short of abysmal. But 8 games in they had made some strides that had people thinking they could develop into quality players.

Keenum came out with both guns blazing and wowed a lot of people and then had a dismal stretch where he threw for under 5 YPA and got benched twice. He was getting worse every game and making people think he can't handle the speed and complexity of the NFL.
That's my concern. The long sacks don't bother me outside of the flow of the game. They bothered me at the time, and I cussed him just like everyone else. But when you step back and think about it, that sort of thing stemmed from a bigger problem, and is completely correctable. The rest? Not so sure.
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Old 05-22-2014   #138
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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How many of those sacks were the results of Keenum's mistakes?

All sacks are not created equal.
Andrew Luck had a pretty bad oline in front of him (he got sacked more) and he wasn't getting sacked for 10/yards a time.

Don't pretend like every other teams oline is perfect.
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Old 05-22-2014   #139
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Great post, Herv! I believe Keenum will get his fair chance to compete for the starting role.......and that is all I would ask for. Last year, Keenum wasn't just simply thrown into the fire...............he was thrown into Hell.

Great pic

This is all I want too.

It seems as though Keenums biggest weakness is blitz recognition. BOB along with the experience Keenum got last yr should help with this deficiency. If Keenum gets a fair shot I expect Keenum to win the starting QB job. Is he a franchise QB probably not. (As TK said the Texans should keep looking) Can he be a serviceable starter until a franchise QB can be found? (Probably)

I will trust BOB's opinion over the MB's haters that

A. Wanted Bridgewater or bust and felt the need to denigrate every QB not named Bridgewater.
B. Manziel or bust guys for the same reasons as above.
C. Kubiak lovers who needed somebody to blame for Kubiak's failings after 8 yrs as HC.

I'm rooting for the best QB for the future of the Texans to win the job. If that means throwing Savage into the fire game 1 so be it. If that means starting Keenum/Fitz/Yates I'm good with that too. Although if BOB goes starting the backup QB route 1st and bringing in Savage later I will be rooting for Keenum. I'm just glad a competent HC with an open mind will be making that call and not the MB/Fanbase.
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Old 05-22-2014   #140
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocBar View Post
It wouldn't hurt my feelings if Keenum wins the starting job. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if Fitz/Yates/Savage won the starting job, either.

All I expect is honest, open competition and the best man wins. No favoritism.

I think we'll see this scenario at every position. I don't expect to see a lot of loyalty from the coaching staff. They didn't draft the vets on this team. That should improve the overall play of the team. imo.
I'd really like to see Keenum succeed, but this is what I really want see at training camp too.
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