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Old 05-21-2014   #101
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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This drive stopped whether Case took a ten yard sack or a nineteen yards sack.
Even if he can magically throw the ball away, it is still a punt.

As it was the punt was downed at the Jags 34.
A better punt by Lechler, who is known for a booming leg would have the Jags at around the 25-29.

Not a big deal of field position to give up.
The risk was worth it to try to make a play.
JMO, of course.
This is called rationalization. Bad decisions are bad decisions & should be called out as bad decisions.

Everybody makes bad decisions, even that is not the problem. But when he makes several in one game... it's a problem.

Like I said before, doesn't matter whether we think Keenum "deserves" another shot or not. He's getting it. In your opinion, he only has to work on little things to become a viable starter. In my opinion, he's got to get a lot better in a lot of the fundamental decision making streams needed to play the game at the speed it's played to the level we need for him to become a viable starter.

If Case is thinking like you, I don't look for him to be on this team when the lights come on. If he's thinking like me, he'll most likely win the job for years to come.
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Old 05-21-2014   #102
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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3rd quarterr

7th Drive.

After a 2-yd run by DJ, Keenum stepped up the pocket and connected with Graham for 7.
DJ tried two runs but came up an inch short of first down.
I wonder why Kubiak didn't use Tate here on third and short and fourth and short???
Not Case's problem.
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Old 05-21-2014   #103
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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This is called rationalization. Bad decisions are bad decisions & should be called out as bad decisions.

Everybody makes bad decisions, even that is not the problem. But when he makes several in one game... it's a problem.

Like I said before, doesn't matter whether we think Keenum "deserves" another shot or not. He's getting it. In your opinion, he only has to work on little things to become a viable starter. In my opinion, he's got to get a lot better in a lot of the fundamental decision making streams needed to play the game at the speed it's played to the level we need for him to become a viable starter.

If Case is thinking like you, I don't look for him to be on this team when the lights come on. If he's thinking like me, he'll most likely win the job for years to come.
What do you think Case needs to do here?

The only way is a ten yard sack.
I want my QB to try to make play in this situation as a learning process.
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Old 05-21-2014   #104
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

I will say, though I agree more with the conclusions thunderkyss is drawing, I missed having 76Texan around doing this kind of stuff. I always appreciate your breakdowns of drives 76!
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Old 05-21-2014   #105
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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9th drive.
Brown got beat too quickly, Keenum quickly found Tate for 6 on the RB screen.
This time, Tate didn't drop the ball.

On 2nd down, Newton got beat quickly, but Keenum was able to find Tate again for 7 and the first down.

On first down, Keenum's pass was nearly picked off.
I do not understand that throw; it was between Graham and AJ and right to the safety who dropped the ball.
Perhaps Keenum was expecting AJ to continue his route, but AJ sat down instead???
The ball was nowhere near either AJ or Graham.

On second down, Keenum beat the 5-man blitz with a 5-yd pass to Posey.

On third and 5, it was Hopkins' and Keenum's turns to miscommunicate.
As opposed to the pass to AJ earlier, this time the ball was thrown to the inside while Hopkins was looking to the outside.
Again, the ball was thrown before the receiver makes his break.
It was supposed to be thrown to a spot.
This time, with the CB backpedaling then turning his back to face the side line, I would think the inside is a better spot to throw the ball???
(In the back of the defender.)
They need more time together to get on the same page.
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Old 05-21-2014   #106
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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I will say, though I agree more with the conclusions thunderkyss is drawing, I missed having 76Texan around doing this kind of stuff. I always appreciate your breakdowns of drives 76!
I wish he was around when we were bickering about Bridgewater, Bortles, & Manziel. That would have been interesting. But now, he's locked in to one guy & there are no other possibilities.

Only one right way.
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Old 05-21-2014   #107
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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10th drive
Keenum found Graham quickly for 6 as Newton got beat.

He found Graham again, but the TE droppped the pass that would have gained a first down.

On third down, Keenum delivered a pass to AJ for 21 before the pocket collapsed.

A short pass was turned into a 12-yd gain by KMart.

Keenum then spiked the ball to stop the clock at 51 second.

From the Jags 41, Keenum sent an easy pass to Hopkins at the 14-yd line.
Hopkins promptly dropped the ball.

On third down, the pocket disintegrated quickly on a 4-man pass rush.
Myers was pushed into Keenum's lap (9-yd deep).
Brook/Newton lost their battles on a twist designed to draw Newton inside (blocking Brook) while the DT looped around the edge.

Keenum chose KMart to dump the ball to.
This guy is supposed to have good hands and can get some YAC.
He did neither.
Instead, he boblled the ball trying to turn around too soon.
The ball caroomed off his hands and was intercepted by a defender.
Ball game.
Not Case's problem.
If KMart made the routine catch for 4 or 5 yards, there's still 4th down.

OLINE problem again .
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Old 05-21-2014   #108
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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What do you think Case needs to do here?

The only way is a ten yard sack.
I want my QB to try to make play in this situation as a learning process.
I want him to throw it away. I don't want to see him "giving up" nine yards. There are 46 other players out there, plus coaches who are thinking, "We've got to make up that 9 yards. Why does this guy think he's the only one out there trying to win this game?"
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Old 05-21-2014   #109
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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I wish he was around when we were bickering about Bridgewater, Bortles, & Manziel. That would have been interesting. But now, he's locked in to one guy & there are no other possibilities.

Only one right way.
All I ever said is Keenum get an Incomplete grade.
He will have to battle it out in camp to make the roster or h gets cut.

I just don't like players to be made worse than they are.

That's always me.
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Old 05-21-2014   #110
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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I want him to throw it away. I don't want to see him "giving up" nine yards. There are 46 other players out there, plus coaches who are thinking, "We've got to make up that 9 yards. Why does this guy think he's the only one out there trying to win this game?"
I said he doesn't have time to throw the ball away.
He will risk a penalty (for not getting the ball past the LOS), an INT, or a fumble as the defender was right there.

He was still in the pocket.
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Old 05-21-2014   #111
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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I will say, though I agree more with the conclusions thunderkyss is drawing, I missed having 76Texan around doing this kind of stuff. I always appreciate your breakdowns of drives 76!
Thanks, man.

Whether we agree on things; it's better to have things laid down clearly.
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Old 05-21-2014   #112
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Thanks, man.

Whether we agree on things; it's better to have things laid down clearly.
Agreed. And as long as everyone disagrees civilly, I really don't have an issue. In the end player evaluation is imperfect.

I like Keenum's mobility, but I'm just not sure the game slows down enough for him at this level.
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Old 05-21-2014   #113
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

2nd drive
Texans went play action, but the Jags didn't buy.
With a guy boring on him from the front, Case nearly connected with Griffin fifteen yards downfield.
The ball was fit right where it needs to be between three defenders.
Could have been hitting a defenless receiver that was not called.
Graham very slow getting up after the cut block did not allow an easy outlet for Keenum.

On second down, with the pocket quickly collapsing, Keenum found Tate for 7.

On third and 3,
Keenum threw the ball to a spot (before AJ made his break).
This is similar to a play mentioned to Hopkins.
The QB zigged, while the receiver zagged.
Just need to be on the same page.
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Old 05-21-2014   #114
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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I want him to throw it away. I don't want to see him "giving up" nine yards. There are 46 other players out there, plus coaches who are thinking, "We've got to make up that 9 yards. Why does this guy think he's the only one out there trying to win this game?"
As I said in this thread or somewhere else, the guy is out there with a team that's on life support, and in his mind, he's got one shot. He's not throwing it away and neither would anyone with a genuine competitive streak. If you're going to get one shot, make your own mistakes, not someone else's. He wasn't good enough, but I'm happy he took the chances he took. It shows he's got moxie, and it's not like his dumb decisions cost the team a playoff berth. Put some people around him that are doing their job and those risks pay off a lot more than they did last season. Then he just has to learn to temper it, which is what every young QB has to learn.

And I'll say the same thing about Savage when he gets out there. I don't want to see a young QB playing it safe too often. Risk vs. reward for a young QB should always be weighted toward risk, IMO. Think about Favre's early years. No one ever accused him of playing it too safe.
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Old 05-21-2014   #115
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Agreed. And as long as everyone disagrees civilly, I really don't have an issue. In the end player evaluation is imperfect.

I like Keenum's mobility, but I'm just not sure the game slows down enough for him at this level.
As I saw in this game, there were only two plays in question.
The one that I insisted Case did not have time to throw the ball away.
Best he could have done was to go fetal and took less of a loss.
It wasn't critical anyway with Lechler as the punter.

The other one; let's assume that he missed the blitzer.
That was odd, since he did call for the TE to switch side to deal with it.
Whether the defender drop back or not, Case already recognized that he (the defender) was there.
Why he didn't take a quick look, I don't know.
He often does that; it's very uncharacteristic of him there.
I've seen him in those situations in college many times before.
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Old 05-21-2014   #116
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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As I said in this thread or somewhere else, the guy is out there with a team that's on life support, and in his mind, he's got one shot. He's not throwing it away and neither would anyone with a genuine competitive streak. If you're going to get one shot, make your own mistakes, not someone else's. He wasn't good enough, but I'm happy he took the chances he took. It shows he's got moxie, and it's not like his dumb decisions cost the team a playoff berth. Put some people around him that are doing their job and those risks pay off a lot more than they did last season. Then he just has to learn to temper it, which is what every young QB has to learn.

And I'll say the same thing about Savage when he gets out there. I don't want to see a young QB playing it safe too often. Risk vs. reward for a young QB should always be weighted toward risk, IMO. Think about Favre's early years. No one ever accused him of playing it too safe.
Favre, the SAFE.

LOL, that would be the end of the world.
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Old 05-21-2014   #117
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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I like Keenum's mobility, but I'm just not sure the game slows down enough for him at this level.
I'm pulling for the kid. Those TD passes to Andre had me sold.


Until I see someone else heave three TDs to Andre in a game, like those (where Andre went & got them), he's number one on my list. I just want to see better decisions. There's got to be one guy out there at all times with his head on right, pointing in the right direction. Works better for us if that guy is the QB & last year, I don't think he was.

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As I said in this thread or somewhere else, the guy is out there with a team that's on life support, and in his mind, he's got one shot. He's not throwing it away and neither would anyone with a genuine competitive streak. If you're going to get one shot, make your own mistakes, not someone else's. He wasn't good enough, but I'm happy he took the chances he took. It shows he's got moxie, and it's not like his dumb decisions cost the team a playoff berth.
That doesn't work with the, "we lost 7 games by 7 points or less" story line.

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Put some people around him that are doing their job and those risks pay off a lot more than they did last season. Then he just has to learn to temper it, which is what every young QB has to learn.
Now it's starting to feel like David Carr up in here. How many players do we have to put around him? Duane Brown, Chris Meyers, Andre Johnson, DeAndre Hopkins, & as far as I can tell, every body likes Brandon Brooks. That's five out of 10 (not counting the QB) quality starters.

Right now, this conversation, all I'm talking about is moving the ball in the second half. Putting some points on the board, avoiding getting swept by the Jacksonville Jaguars.

Do we need probowlers at every position to win a single game?

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And I'll say the same thing about Savage when he gets out there. I don't want to see a young QB playing it safe too often. Risk vs. reward for a young QB should always be weighted toward risk, IMO. Think about Favre's early years. No one ever accused him of playing it too safe.
I want him, any QB really, to make the plays he knows he can make & not attempt the ones he doesn't know if he can or can't. I don't want him to "try" anything.

I understand sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. But when we look back at a young Tom Brady, we don't remember a lot of the plays he couldn't make (tuck rule is the only one that comes to mind). We only remember the ones he made. Not because he didn't fail on some, but because he succeeded on so many more.

Had Case fumbled the ball once in the endzone (or close to the goal line) I'd have forgotten it by now. But he did it twice, both times because, imo, he was slow to realize the ball had to be gone.

Had he taken one 15+ yard sack, maybe two... I'd have forgotten about it, but he took 19 sacks for 201 yards. That's ridiculous. We can't send a guy out there with that kind of average. Well, we shouldn't.

After that second time, he should have realized... "that's not going to win me a job anywhere. I need to stop making those decisions & make more of the ones that worked." Or simply, "Running backwards, bad. Running laterally or forward... good."
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Old 05-21-2014   #118
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

I remember quite a few sacks Schaub took because he didn't see the unblocked Blitzer off the edge.

That was after Schaub had been in the league for a while.
I believe we still saw it in his second year with the Texans.

They should have cut that dude a long time ago, LOL.
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Old 05-21-2014   #119
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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As I saw in this game, there were only two plays in question.
The one that I insisted Case did not have time to throw the ball away.
Best he could have done was to go fetal and took less of a loss.
It wasn't critical anyway with Lechler as the punter.

The other one; let's assume that he missed the blitzer.
That was odd, since he did call for the TE to switch side to deal with it.
Whether the defender drop back or not, Case already recognized that he (the defender) was there.
Why he didn't take a quick look, I don't know.
He often does that; it's very uncharacteristic of him there.
I've seen him in those situations in college many times before.
Thanks for your great breakdown.........always appreciated. MSR
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Old 05-21-2014   #120
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

I seem to recall Tony Romo with a few bonehead plays after he had played several years.

Favreau was famous for that; so was Warren Moon.

I mean how do these guys not get cut?
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