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Old 05-20-2014   #1
76Texan
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Default Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

FOR those who don't know me, I was the guy who defended those two during off-seasons, after their "seemingly" disastrous campaigns.

While doing so, I spent a lot of times breaking down several "perceived" terrible plays by the defendants.

Some claimed that I made them pro - bowlers while the usual thinking was that they stink.

That, by itself, is a "small" victory for the defendants, whether in the court of law or common "justice".
Just to make the jury explore the evidences that encompass the whole case rather than just zeroing in one target is always a good step. The final judgment is always in the hand of the jury.

Unfortunately, I don't have much time this year.
The regulars here can tell by my abscence.
They also know that I believe in Football as a team sport; it is won most often with a cohesive unit (Coaching, offense, defense, ST, and fans.)

All that said, I'd like to begin the "investigation" with Tom Brady in his second year with the Patriots.

Study his numbers from every aspect and they are really close to Keenum's

Then you look at each smaller unit.
Offensive weapons.
Running game.
The O-line.

Advantage Brady, by how much? It's hard to quantify; my thinking is the running game helped Brady more.

But when it comes to defense, I hate to say it, there was no contest.
Brady had nearly a ten point advantage.

And then there's ST.

...

I like Keenum a lot because he has it upstairs, but he's always limited in statue.
From day one, I've stressed that he needs to begin by observing Drew Brees.

Right now I think he plays more like a backup .
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Old 05-20-2014   #2
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

His problems against the blitz were so frustrating. He struggled, no problem with that. But he continually struggled with the same concept. No progression in that area at all last year. Blame the offensive line all you want (and it was bad) but it wasn't all their fault. Not even close.

Also, the sacks. IIRC, of the 5 longest sacks taken last season, he had 3-4 of them including the 2 longest.
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Old 05-20-2014   #3
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
Also, the sacks. IIRC, of the 5 longest sacks taken last season, he had 3-4 of them including the 2 longest.
Those are frustrating plays, but they don't speak to his ability to play QB at all, IMO. A seasoned QB learns to go fetal when it's called for, while a young QB is more apt to try and extend the play. Add to that the pressure of getting what will likely be his only chance and he'd rather go down slinging it than playing it safe, I'd assume. Add to that the team's woes and I'm sure they all felt the need to try and do too much.

Of all the things to ding Keenum for, the long sacks are not too concerning, in my view.
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Old 05-20-2014   #4
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

Well, the good thing about having O'Brien come in without a starting QB is that we can be certain that Keenum will be analyzed and given a shot. If he does not pan out with O'Brien, then it should be fairly obvious when two different NFL staffs arrive at the same conclusion.

I'd love to see the kid make it and succeed, just because it's a great story. But, that said, story is a result, not a justification.
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Old 05-20-2014   #5
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

Keenum doesn't have Brady's traits -- much steeper hill for him.

But it'll be fun to see how/if things chance with different QB coaching & new system.
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Old 05-20-2014   #6
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Keenum doesn't have Brady's traits -- much steeper hill for him.
Curious what traits you think the second year (first year starter) version of Tom Brady had that Keenum doesn't, and why you think Keenum doesn't have them. Obviously, Brady has become one of the best QBs in NFL history, but because of that, people tend to over-inflate his play in those first couple years.
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Old 05-20-2014   #7
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
His problems against the blitz were so frustrating. He struggled, no problem with that. But he continually struggled with the same concept. No progression in that area at all last year. Blame the offensive line all you want (and it was bad) but it wasn't all their fault. Not even close.

Also, the sacks. IIRC, of the 5 longest sacks taken last season, he had 3-4 of them including the 2 longest.
Good; which was supposed to be on the card.
Everybody (or so it seems) is on this; which is totally legitimate?
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Old 05-20-2014   #8
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
Keenum doesn't have Brady's traits -- much steeper hill for him.

But it'll be fun to see how/if things chance with different QB coaching & new system.
What was Bradys trait, May I Ask?
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Old 05-20-2014   #9
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

Can Keenum get better like those other two guys got better?

Sure.
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Old 05-20-2014   #10
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
His problems against the blitz were so frustrating. He struggled, no problem with that. But he continually struggled with the same concept. No progression in that area at all last year. Blame the offensive line all you want (and it was bad) but it wasn't all their fault. Not even close.

Also, the sacks. IIRC, of the 5 longest sacks taken last season, he had 3-4 of them including the 2 longest.
We'll get to that.
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Old 05-20-2014   #11
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Good; which was supposed to be on the card.
Everybody (or so it seems) is on this; which is totally legitimate?
I'm interested to understand what you're saying here, 76, but honestly can't figure it out. Can you elaborate? Thanks.
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Old 05-20-2014   #12
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
how so?

did chris myers and jackson only have 8 games to prove themselves worthy of being nfl players?

no they didnt.

they had multiple seasons of rope. matt schaub had how many years?

but somehow keenum has to prove himself in only 8 games and being thrust into a cesspool of failure that schaub and kubiak created if not, he is perpetually labeled as an incapable of playing in the nfl.

there is some serious hypocritical double standards going on here.
It's the nature of the job.
Keenum is a long shot, not an exception.
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Old 05-20-2014   #13
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
how so?

did chris myers and jackson only have 8 games to prove themselves worthy of being nfl players?

no they didnt.

they had multiple seasons of rope. matt schaub had how many years?

but somehow keenum has to prove himself in only 8 games and being thrust into a cesspool of failure that schaub and kubiak created if not, he is perpetually labeled as an incapable of playing in the nfl.

there is some serious hypocritical double standards going on here.
At least Schaub won a game...
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Old 05-20-2014   #14
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
His problems against the blitz were so frustrating. He struggled, no problem with that. But he continually struggled with the same concept. No progression in that area at all last year. Blame the offensive line all you want (and it was bad) but it wasn't all their fault. Not even close.

Also, the sacks. IIRC, of the 5 longest sacks taken last season, he had 3-4 of them including the 2 longest.
Whatever number you're looking at; can you do me a favor looking at Brady ' s ?

And I promise you it#2 just a start m
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Old 05-20-2014   #15
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Bills View Post
how so?

did chris myers and jackson only have 8 games to prove themselves worthy of being nfl players?

no they didnt.

they had multiple seasons of rope. matt schaub had how many years?

but somehow keenum has to prove himself in only 8 games and being thrust into a cesspool of failure that schaub and kubiak created if not, he is perpetually labeled as an incapable of playing in the nfl.

there is some serious hypocritical double standards going on here.
What double standards? I don't remember Schaub going 0-8 when we first got him. In fact, as much as I dislike Schaub, he started 2-0 I believe. This is a results driven league and the fact is, Keenum has not won anything, regardless the circumstance. I am all for giving him a shot this upcoming season during the preseason, but all of the QB's on our roster is a long shot to begin with.
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Old 05-20-2014   #16
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

I watched Keenum just like everyone else did last year. He had very little to work with. Every rookie.........yes, I call him a rookie, as this was his first year in real live fire........shows the problems handling the blitz. However, those that are not surrounded by a strong support cast seldom can overcome the deficits they initially bring in. And, on top of that, if the game is not coached to their strengths, it becomes even uglier. Last year, by the time Keenum was given the helm, the Texans were whittled down to only the walking wounded and make shift poor excuses for "survivors." For any other QB, the fetal position and interceptions would have likely been the optional soup d'jour. I trust OB to sort things out one way or another. And it wouldn't surprise me if Keenum still comes out of camp as the best option.
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Old 05-20-2014   #17
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
His problems against the blitz were so frustrating. He struggled, no problem with that. But he continually struggled with the same concept. No progression in that area at all last year. Blame the offensive line all you want (and it was bad) but it wasn't all their fault. Not even close.

Also, the sacks. IIRC, of the 5 longest sacks taken last season, he had 3-4 of them including the 2 longest.
It's a legitimate question.
Aren't we asking of a world beater here?
No doubt we can use one.
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Old 05-20-2014   #18
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by chenjy9 View Post
What double standards? I don't remember Schaub going 0-8 when we first got him. In fact, as much as I dislike Schaub, he started 2-0 I believe. This is a results driven league and the fact is, Keenum has not won anything, regardless the circumstance. I am all for giving him a shot this upcoming season during the preseason, but all of the QB's on our roster is a long shot to begin with.
In 2004, the first year Schaub was thrown in there with Atlanta, he played in 6 games, had 1 TD 4 INTs, a 47% completion rate, took 4 sacks and ended up with a 42 QB rating.
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Old 05-20-2014   #19
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
In 2004, the first year Schaub was thrown in there with Atlanta, he played in 6 games, had 1 TD 4 INTs, a 47% completion rate, took 4 sacks and ended up with a 42 QB rating.
Non-starts where a QB is getting thrown in for either cleanup or lost cause duty are pretty meaningless stats to compare.

Schaub's first 8 starts (3-5): 62.7% comp., 7.77 ypa, 255.5 ypg, 85.8 rating.
Keenum's first 8 starts (0-8): 54.2% comp., 7.0 ypa, 220.0 ypg, 78.2 rating.

Which is not to say Keenum has shown us everything he has (which frankly I think is absurd), but I'm not holding my breath over him making it either.
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Old 05-20-2014   #20
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Default Re: Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
I watched Keenum just like everyone else did last year. He had very little to work with. Every rookie.........yes, I call him a rookie, as this was his first year in real live fire........shows the problems handling the blitz. However, those that are not surrounded by a strong support cast seldom can overcome the deficits they initially bring in. And, on top of that, if the game is not coached to their strengths, it becomes even uglier. Last year, by the time Keenum was given the helm, the Texans were whittled down to only the walking wounded and make shift poor excuses for "survivors." For any other QB, the fetal position and interceptions would have likely been the optional soup d'jour. I trust OB to sort things out one way or another. And it wouldn't surprise me if Keenum still comes out of camp as the best option.
I've been searching for the same words to express those exact thoughts. Thanks for articulating it for me.
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