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Old 05-10-2014   #1301
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Default Re: Blake Bortles

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Sb winning QB's from the last ten years or so are:

1. Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Russell Ben, Flacco.

Brady was that one exception along with Russell. Russell's team got there and won mainly due to defense.

I pretty much rest my case. Elite QB's generally come in the first round. Luck is practically elite now as well and he was a #1 over all draft pick. Don't let facts get in the way of what typically has happened in the NFL though.

This is a QB's league and it always will be.
The only one of those to go early in the first (your words, not mine) was Manning. Maybe Roethlisberger if you are being very generous with the term "early." None of the others were taken in the top half of the first. To be fair Eli should be on that list too, although (like Flacco, Ben, Russell, and one of Brady's) it was mainly the defense that won the Giants those two rings -- specifically the DL.

Brees: 2nd round
Brady: 6th round
Rogers: 24th pick
Flacco: 18th
Ben: 11th
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Old 05-10-2014   #1302
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Default Re: Blake Bortles

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Originally Posted by Dan B. View Post
The only one of those to go early in the first (your words, not mine) was Manning. Maybe Roethlisberger if you are being very generous with the term "early."

Brees: 2nd round
Brady: 6th round
Rogers: 24th pick
Flacco: 18th
Ben: 11th
These are all first rounders other than Brees and Brady. My point exactly. Go ahead and make some argument that it's easy to find great QB's in all rounds of the draft, but the majority of time teams end up shuffling through multiple QB's time and time again with that weakness holding their team back over and over. Meanwhile teams with elite level QB's are in the playoff hunt every year and thought of as contenders. This is a passer's league and that's what the NFL wants it to be.
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Old 05-10-2014   #1303
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Default Re: Blake Bortles

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...the majority of the QB's in this league come as early first rounders. Hell, look at most of the starters in this league. Brady is a huge exception and that will never be the norm.

We need to do everything possible in the next season to find a top flight QB. Mortgage however many picks it takes going into next year's draft.
I agree with you for the most part. The better QBs are generally 1st round picks.

But you're talking about guys like Flacco & Rodgers who were taken in the later part of the first, which is probably where we'll be next year... mid first probably.

We should be able to trade up to the bottom half of the top 10 without breaking the bank & get guys like Roethlisberger or Cutler (11th overall selections).

But if Mariata or Hundley are the talk of the draft next season, we'll be better off not buying the hype & go with the tried & true 6'5" 230lb, major program, major conference, winner.
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Old 05-10-2014   #1304
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Default Re: Blake Bortles

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
These are all first rounders other than Brees and Brady. My point exactly. Go ahead and make some argument that it's easy to find great QB's in all rounds of the draft, but the majority of time teams end up shuffling through multiple QB's time and time again with that weakness holding their team back over and over. Meanwhile teams with elite level QB's are in the playoff hunt every year and thought of as contenders. This is a passer's league and that's what the NFL wants it to be.
The thing is, some of those teams (Cleveland, Jacksonville) have consistently reached for a QB early every year because they felt that the NFL is a QB driven league and you gotta have that guy. Meanwhile San Francisco and Seattle patiently waited for a QB that was right for them.

Just because you draft a guy early doesn't make him elite. I don't think it's easy to find a great QB in the late rounds -- I also don't think it's easy to find an elite one in the first. That's why there aren't a lot of elite QB's. Most prospects don't pan out.
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Old 05-10-2014   #1305
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Default Re: Blake Bortles

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I agree with you for the most part. The better QBs are generally 1st round picks.

But you're talking about guys like Flacco & Rodgers who were taken in the later part of the first, which is probably where we'll be next year... mid first probably.

We should be able to trade up to the bottom half of the top 10 without breaking the bank & get guys like Roethlisberger or Cutler (11th overall selections).

But if Mariata or Hundley are the talk of the draft next season, we'll be better off not buying the hype & go with the tried & true 6'5" 230lb, major program, major conference, winner.
Exactly. They went to teams that had built at other positions already. The same logic holds at every position (except kicker/punter). First round picks succeed more often.
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Old 05-10-2014   #1306
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Default Re: Blake Bortles

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Originally Posted by Dan B. View Post
The thing is, some of those teams (Cleveland, Jacksonville) have consistently reached for a QB early every year because they felt that the NFL is a QB driven league and you gotta have that guy. Meanwhile San Francisco and Seattle patiently waited for a QB that was right for them.

Just because you draft a guy early doesn't make him elite. I don't think it's easy to find a great QB in the late rounds -- I also don't think it's easy to find an elite one in the first. That's why there aren't a lot of elite QB's. Most prospects don't pan out.
THis is a fair point, but Cleveland and Jacksonville aren't really the best examples to use when you consider how dumb some of those picks looked like from the jump. I won't say the Brady Quinn pick was, because many thought he had potential, but that Weeden pick was laughable. I couldn't believe they did that. I like Manziel a lot and I have a lot of concerns about him at the next level, but I don't see a problem with rolling the dice on Manziel personally. He has that it factor and he'll sell tickets which is something the Browns could use to ignite the fan base right now. The Browns front office has been a disaster in all sorts of ways. Jacksonville has as well. I don't recall anyone thinking Gabbert was going to set the world on fire. He never looked like a good prospect to me.

There are plenty of first rounders that don't pan out that well too. I'm not saying there aren't. But the guy that seem to really become studs usually are in the first round somewhere. I think the odds are much better for sure. I see a lot more teams shuffling QB's around when they pick these multiple 3rd rounders every other year.
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Old 05-12-2014   #1307
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Default Re: Blake Bortles

The problem is you either get good qb's(Luck, Manning, ect...) or Gabbert, Bradford, Locker, ect... If you get the second group it can st you back 3-5 years. So they took the best player on their board. Tough but could be the wise decision.
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Old 05-12-2014   #1308
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Default Re: Blake Bortles

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Originally Posted by BigBull17 View Post
The problem is you either get good qb's(Luck, Manning, ect...) or Gabbert, Bradford, Locker, ect... If you get the second group it can st you back 3-5 years. So they took the best player on their board. Tough but could be the wise decision.
The problem lies not so much with the players being drafted as it is with the people picking the players. The draft is just like everyday life, there are some people who are much better at doing certain tasks than others. The same applies to NFL Head Coaches who are often not the best evaluators of talent. Good Coaches? Yes! Good talent evaluators? No! Which is the primary reason they get fired. As was the case with Del Rio and Gabbert, Munchak and Locker and Spagnolo and Bradford.
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Old 05-22-2014   #1309
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Default Re: Blake Bortles

Houston Texans nearly drafted Blake Bortles?

according to Tony Pauline.

The Texans held the first pick in the draft and there's was much intrigue right up until the final minutes. Houston seriously considered Blake Bortles with the initial selection and I'm told they had two cards filled out at their table. One had Bortles name on it while the other listed the team's eventual selection, Jadeveon Clowney. In the end Clowney was the smart pick and was made in large part based on fear; the team was afraid of passing up such a potentially dominant defender.

http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2014/5/...nfl-draft-2014
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Old 05-22-2014   #1310
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Default Re: Blake Bortles

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Houston Texans nearly drafted Blake Bortles?

according to Tony Pauline.

The Texans held the first pick in the draft and there's was much intrigue right up until the final minutes. Houston seriously considered Blake Bortles with the initial selection and I'm told they had two cards filled out at their table. One had Bortles name on it while the other listed the team's eventual selection, Jadeveon Clowney. In the end Clowney was the smart pick and was made in large part based on fear; the team was afraid of passing up such a potentially dominant defender.

http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2014/5/...nfl-draft-2014


T,

Don't recall seeing your take on Savage. What is your opinion of him? Kinda new to this MB but always enjoy seeing your thoughts. Thanks. I was on the Bortles bandwagon as well.
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Old 05-22-2014   #1311
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Default Re: Blake Bortles

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T,

Don't recall seeing your take on Savage. What is your opinion of him? Kinda new to this MB but always enjoy seeing your thoughts. Thanks. I was on the Bortles bandwagon as well.
When the going got tough Savage bailed, not once but twice. The QB that beat him out at Rutgers eventually got beat out also. I guess Savage also thought he had no chance at Arizona with Foles at the helm. I'm not particularly high on a QB that when the pressure rises he turns tail and runs. If you review history of QBs who left major programs because they couldn't get on the field or get satisfactory playing time, it's a pretty sad group.

That aside Savage makes as many bad decisions as he does good ones. His completion % was a paltry 62% and QB efficiency of 138 barely making the top 50. On the positive side he does have a BIG arm, an NFL arm. The BIG ? is, does he have the brain to use that arm it at a high level???? When you watch his 4 biggest games, FSU, Va Tech, ND, Miami (toughest competition) his production drops considerably.

I see Savage as a rookie head coach mistake.

I think that makes 3 of us on the BB wagon, You, Me and Texecutioner
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Last edited by Texian; 05-23-2014 at 12:45 AM.
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Old 05-22-2014   #1312
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Default Re: Blake Bortles

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When the going got tough Savage bailed, not once but twice. The QB that beat him out at Rutgers eventually got beat out also. I guess Savage also thought he had no chance at Arizona with Foles at the helm. I'm not particularly high on a QB that when the pressure rises he turns tail and runs. If you review history of QBs who left major programs because they couldn't get on the field or get satisfactory playing time, it's a pretty sad group.

That aside Savage makes as many bad decisions as he does good ones. His completion % was a paltry 62% and QB efficiency of 138 barely making the top 50. On the positive side he does have a BIG arm, an NFL arm. The BIG ? is, does he have the brain to use use it at a high level???? When you watch his 4 biggest games, FSU, Va Tech, ND, Miami (toughest competition) his production drops considerably.

I see Savage as a rookie head coach mistake.

I think that makes 3 of us on the BB wagon, You, Me and Texecutioner
I disagreed with you in the Clowney thread but I don't here. Hard to argue. A lot of questions with Savage and besides his great arm strength, it looks like we won't know how this pick turned out until 2015.
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Old 05-22-2014   #1313
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Default Re: Blake Bortles

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When the going got tough Savage bailed, not once but twice. The QB that beat him out at Rutgers eventually got beat out also. I guess Savage also thought he had no chance at Arizona with Foles at the helm. I'm not particularly high on a QB that when the pressure rises he turns tail and runs. If you review history of QBs who left major programs because they couldn't get on the field or get satisfactory playing time, it's a pretty sad group.

That aside Savage makes as many bad decisions as he does good ones. His completion % was a paltry 62% and QB efficiency of 138 barely making the top 50. On the positive side he does have a BIG arm, an NFL arm. The BIG ? is, does he have the brain to use use that arm it at a high level???? When you watch his 4 biggest games, FSU, Va Tech, ND, Miami (toughest competition) his production drops considerably.

I see Savage as a rookie head coach mistake.

I think that makes 3 of us on the BB wagon, You, Me and Texecutioner
Maybe but it would been even worse to use the #1 overall on Bortles who it has been reported, Texans had filled out a 2nd card just in case something changed their minds last second. I really don't think its any big deal to use a late 4th rd. pick to take a chance on the kid.

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-medi...9-9218295a30c8
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Old 05-23-2014   #1314
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Default Re: Blake Bortles

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Maybe but it would been even worse to use the #1 overall on Bortles who it has been reported, Texans had filled out a 2nd card just in case something changed their minds last second. I really don't think its any big deal to use a late 4th rd. pick to take a chance on the kid.

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-medi...9-9218295a30c8
I'll bet a dollar to a nickle that Bortles will be the much better QB. On another note, I would bet $100 on Bortles being be the Jags QB for the next 10 years.
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Old 05-23-2014   #1315
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Default Re: Blake Bortles

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I'll bet a dollar to a nickle that Bortles will be the much better QB. On another note, I would bet $100 on Bortles being be the Jags QB for the next 10 years.
What's that going to prove? Leftwhich made it for four years.
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Old 05-23-2014   #1316
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Default Re: Blake Bortles

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What's that going to prove? Leftwhich made it for four years.
That ain't 10....
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Old 05-23-2014   #1317
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Default Re: Blake Bortles

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I'll bet a dollar to a nickle that Bortles will be the much better QB. On another note, I would bet $100 on Bortles being be the Jags QB for the next 10 years.
I hope you're wrong for the Texans sake, or atleast Bortles is a middle of the pack QB and hangs around for 10 yrs, I will admit Bortles has a lot of growth potential.

BTW, I don't make MB bets after getting stiffed on a couple of Schaub will suck last yr bets that I made before the season started.

These guys know who they are.
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Old 05-23-2014   #1318
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Default Re: Blake Bortles

Bortles popped into my radar when UCF played Louisville. I was watching Louisville because of Teddy and in the fourth quarter here comes Bortles just like Texian has said, calm and collected and gets that game winning touchdown on a long drive AT THEIR stadium.

Bortles has that thing about him to me that is like the Spurs. Gets the job done without much flash. Its a good thing we got Clowney and Watt because Luck and Bortles will be giving us headaches for the next decade. At least we got Savage though .
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Old 05-23-2014   #1319
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Default Re: Blake Bortles

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Bortles popped into my radar when UCF played Louisville. I was watching Louisville because of Teddy and in the fourth quarter here comes Bortles just like Texian has said, calm and collected and gets that game winning touchdown on a long drive AT THEIR stadium.

Bortles has that thing about him to me that is like the Spurs. Gets the job done without much flash. Its a good thing we got Clowney and Watt because Luck and Bortles will be giving us headaches for the next decade. At least we got Savage though .
Your probably going to be right. I like where the Texans (You gotta have more faith) and the Jags are going. The needle is definitely pointing up. IMHO
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Old 05-23-2014   #1320
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Default Re: Blake Bortles

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...I think that makes 3 of us on the BB wagon, You, Me and Texecutioner
Hey I've been there with you the last couple of months. I was high on Bridgewater all last year but Bortles won me over in the end. I said the day before the draft that I would prefer Bortles or Mack be the #1 pick instead of Clowney. I even mocked Bortles to us at #1 in my final mock, in which I base my selections on what I would do if I were in charge of each team.

But I do have a lot of respect for O'Brien so for now I'll just trust in his judgment. And hope that I'm wrong about Bortles and he flops.
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