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Old 04-22-2014   #61
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

How much input does social media/fan base weigh in on GM decision process?
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Old 04-22-2014   #62
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
I have only watched Mack in 2 games and I saw nothing that really got me excited. In those games he was easily blocked by the TE and to often taken out of the play. There must be better tape out there for so many to have him so high. However I saw nothing at all that suggest he's anything like Von Miller.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmMZ6gJeoMI

I see a guy who rarely gets engaged by blockers, who constantly schools tackles with strength or movement, who was a lone bright spot on a terrible buffalo team. Exceptional instincts, excellent backside pursuit. Everyone has their opinion though.
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Old 04-22-2014   #63
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Mack is a hell of a lot safer of a pick than Clowney, that's for sure. I hope this is true, but I bet it is a smoke screen. At this point, I'll be happy to get anyone "but Clowney." Mack looks like a really good player with a low potential bust rate as well unlike Clowney.
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Based on what? Crap you've read?
Yup. I mean, how can a cat playing for the Buffalo Bulls not be the safer pick?

I like both Clowney and Mack, but to say Mack is the safer pick and potential lower bust rate than Clowney is just crazy.
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Old 04-22-2014   #64
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

Doesn't appear to be selling well within the league...

John Middlekauff ‏@JohnMiddlekauff
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Read in @theMMQB that sources say #Texans GM likes Mack > Clowney. Texted a ton of scouts/execs this morning ALL said Clowney > Mack
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Old 04-22-2014   #65
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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Originally Posted by NastyNate View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmMZ6gJeoMI

I see a guy who rarely gets engaged by blockers, who constantly schools tackles with strength or movement, who was a lone bright spot on a terrible buffalo team. Exceptional instincts, excellent backside pursuit. Everyone has their opinion though.
I watched the clip in it's in entirety. Mack did have a good game, 3 sacks and pick 6. This is my observation which many will likely disagree. Sacks 1 & 3 were on Braxton Miller, he definitely held the ball to long. Sack 2 was a good speed sack but the announcer noted that it came against a rookie RT starting his first game. The pick six was a heads up play but I doubt any NFL QB is going to make that throw. Another thing I noticed is Mack is very susceptible to the play action fake. He bit on it to many times for my liking. He will have to fix this if he wants to play in the NFL for an extended time. And I thought #43 might have had the better game.
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Old 04-22-2014   #66
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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Originally Posted by JB View Post
link?
Check Wade's twitter account
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Old 04-22-2014   #67
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

So Wade put on his Twitter account that he was promised 2 #1 draft picks to be DC?

You made the accusation that McNair did this, I think you ought to be the one that supports it with facts instead of conjecture.
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Old 04-22-2014   #68
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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Originally Posted by JB View Post
link?
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Originally Posted by Porky View Post
So Wade put on his Twitter account that he was promised 2 #1 draft picks to be DC?

You made the accusation that McNair did this, I think you ought to be the one that supports it with facts instead of conjecture.
Here you go: http://prod.www.texans.clubs.nfl.com...6-16223b9808b6
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Old 04-22-2014   #69
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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Kubiak had final say on the 53 man roster and was very Liberal with allowing coaches their picks. That's the way it was done in Denver under Shanahan and Smith was doing in Denver what he's doing in Houston. Kubiak was the director of the draft, Smith was the operator.
I don't think so. I believe you're taking a few words here & there & inferring an awful lot. Think back to when we drafted Brown. It was totally plausible that Smith could have traded down again & miss Brown all together. We then would have picked another player. Who had control then? Who had final say?

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If you watched the interviews with coaches after draft picks were made it wasn't difficult to discern how much the coaches were involved in the final decisions of the draft picks. The only two times that I know that Kubiak's final say on the 53 man roster was breached was when McNair promised Wade the next two 1st RD picks to intice him to be the next DC.
Do you have anything to support that McNair promising Wade two draft picks? Even so, that's not infringing on Kubiak's say on the 53. It's unlikely that a first round pick wouldn't make the team, but that's Kubiak's call, not selecting the players, in the draft or FA. Rick picks them, Gary coaches them.

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This goes hand in hand with reports that the front office was complaining to Ian Rappoport of NFLN that coaches had to much say and input in to the draft process. That report makes absolutely no sense if Smith was responsible for all the draft picks.

and Jimmy Johnson had a degree in Psychology.
Rick takes input from the coaches. If his lackeys thought the coaches had to much influence, they had a problem with the way Rick & the way he ran the draft. He's got scouts in one ear & coaches in the other. The scouts were a little upset that Rick obviously sided with the coaches far too often.
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Old 04-22-2014   #70
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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I don't think so. I believe you're taking a few words here & there & inferring an awful lot. Think back to when we drafted Brown. It was totally plausible that Smith could have traded down again & miss Brown all together. We then would have picked another player. Who had control then? Who had final say?

I distinctly remember towards the end of the 2010 season in an after a game or a Monday Kubiak press conference, during the Q&A, McClain specifically asked Kubiak if he was willing to give up control and final say of the 53 man roster to keep his job. Gary responded with a solid NO, that it was in his contract and that was not going to change. Now, you can choose to believe that or not. I don't really care but I just don't go around making things up for the heck of it.

Do you have anything to support that McNair promising Wade two draft picks? Even so, that's not infringing on Kubiak's say on the 53. It's unlikely that a first round pick wouldn't make the team, but that's Kubiak's call, not selecting the players, in the draft or FA. Rick picks them, Gary coaches them.

Wade is on tape saying as much and I provided a link earlier. Promising a a coach draft pick(s) to take a coordinators position makes perfect sense and something that is not out of the ordinary. It happens all the time. It's called enticement! The great irony here is McNair promising coaches draft picks then a few years later complaining to NFLN that coaches have to much input in to the draft picks. The Dysfunction Junction is located on Kirby Lane.

Rick takes input from the coaches. If his lackeys thought the coaches had to much influence, they had a problem with the way Rick & the way he ran the draft. He's got scouts in one ear & coaches in the other. The scouts were a little upset that Rick obviously sided with the coaches far too often.

Rick was brought to Houston by Gary Kubiak to do in Houston what he did in Denver for Shanahan. The front office saying that coaches had to much input in to the draft picks, means just that, nothing else, the FO thought the coaches had to much say on who was drafted. The consensus advice O'Brien received from his trusted mentors and advisers was, "make sure you're in charge". I suspect things are much the same. The other thing that makes perfectly good sense is the reason Rick Smith didn't get fired is because he did not have complete authority and responsibility for the draft. Like Gary and Bob's make it happen guy then, Rick is now Bill and Bob's make it happen guy now.

My guess on why McNair became so dissatisfied with the coaches decision on draft picks stems directly from the Sam Montgomery fiasco.
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Old 04-22-2014   #71
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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Yes, like every other GM in the NFL, Rick Smith collects information from coaches and scouts before making each selection. And, like every draft pick in every round by every NFL team- one of the coaches that lobbied hard for the eventual pick is quite pleased. By the way, many others are disappointed. When Alex Gibb was lobbying for Duane Brown (I'm taking your word for it), don't you think that scouts and position coaches on defense were in Rick's ear about other players? In 2009, did everyone get silent for Frank Bush? In 2010, all of a sudden Rick Smith made a pick in a vacuum?

I remember an interview with Jimmy Johnson about the Cowboys' drafts. He discussed the importance of knowing his assistant coaches... He listed his assistants and described how he factored each man's attitudes/perspective into the decison-making process... He concluded with, "... and Butch Davis loved everybody (laughing)." I can't find it on youtube... However, it is the decision-making that makes a GM more than his scouting ability. The GM is given a mountain of information from many different sources- each with different self-interests, perspectives, philosophies- and the GM is accountable and expected to make the best set of decisions by sifting and prioritizing through all of that information.
What you described tells me that Smith is in way over his head.
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Old 04-22-2014   #72
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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How does that explain that the Houston Texans front office was at odds with coaches having to much say in the draft.

I think the reason Rick Smith wasn't fired is because he didn't have a lot of say in the selection of draft picks. It works both ways, Rick wasn't responsible for Montgomery. And you can't ignore the rumors, Kubiak promised Gibbs the first pick to become the assitant head coach and full responsibilty for the running game. Frank Bush commenting that he new in the Fall before the draft that if Cushing was available, that Cush would be their draft pick and Bob McNair promising Wade Phillips the next two 1st RD picks to become the Texans DC. I think that Rick Smith was Gary Kubiak and Bob McNair's make it happen guy and I think the same situation is true, now with O'Brien and McNair.
Or maybe Smith wasn't fired because of McNair having to pay 6 mil to buy out BOB's contract and didn't want to have to pay off the remaining yr of Kubiak's contract. Plus Smith's contract that doesn't run out until May 2017.

McNair made a BooBoo by extending them, (He wanted to extend Kubiak through the 2015 season also) and doesn't want to have to fully pay for his mistake. If Kubiak had accepted the longer extention he would probably still be the HC, regardless of whether the team quit on him last yr.

Lets hear all of the McNair/Smith love!!!!!!! 2-14 and still being employed says alot.
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Old 04-22-2014   #73
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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Seems to be a bad link. I do remember Wade answering a question tongue in cheek about being promised a first round pick of his choice, and it was discussed here quite a bit but I don't think anyone took it seriously

until now
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Old 04-22-2014   #74
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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Are you talking about the comment at around 1:28? You do realize that was a joke right?
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Old 04-22-2014   #75
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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Are you talking about the comment at around 1:28? You do realize that was a joke right?

I never could get it to play, but do remember the joke
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Old 04-22-2014   #76
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

There's a lots of time left for draft and it is only natural for our FO to keep things open and fishing for now. Because, you never know what you may or not get an offer for 1.1 pick.
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Old 04-22-2014   #77
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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I distinctly remember towards the end of the 2010 season in an after a game or a Monday Kubiak press conference, during the Q&A, McClain specifically asked Kubiak if he was willing to give up control and final say of the 53 man roster to keep his job. Gary responded with a solid NO that it was in his contract and that was not going to change. Now, you can choose to believe that or not. I don't really care but I just don't go around making things up for the heck of it.
I remember that as well. I also remember Gary saying, "Rick gets them & I coach them." Rick can sign & draft whoever he wants, but it was up to Gary whether that person makes the 53, the active roster, the starting line-up, or finds a spot in the rotation.

Well, until McNair decided Case was going to start the remainder of the year.

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Wade is on tape saying as much and I provided a link earlier.
did you watch the whole thing? What did you make of all the laughs after Wade said that? & he said it was in his contract that we would always draft a defensive player high in the draft.

Wade, as usual, was joking. He later, in that same video, flat out said, "We don't do that. We take the best player, offense or defense." He didn't say "From here on out." He didn't say, "starting now." He didn't say, "Except for the last two."

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Rick was brought to Houston by Gary Kubiak to do in Houston what he did in Denver for Shanahan.
Normally I'm not a stickler for details, but you seem to genuinely, literally believe this. Rick was not the GM in Denver.
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In his former role with the Broncos, Smith was responsible for evaluating players from around the NFL as well as those in NFL Europe, the Canadian Football League, the Arena Football League and other professional leagues. He also played a central role in the club’s preparation for the college draft and was one of the Broncos’ primary negotiators for player contracts.

With Smith heading the pro personnel department,
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The front office saying that coaches had to much input in to the draft picks, means just that, nothing else, the FO thought the coaches had to much say on who was drafted.
That could mean any number of things. There maybe several front office personnel who believe the position coaches shouldn't be involved at all.

Again, I ask you if the Texans had traded out of that spot that got them Duane Brown, & ended up having to draft someone else, who's call would that have been?

Then in 2011, we could have traded up to get Aldon Smith, but we didn't. That was clearly Rick Smith's decision. Had he decided differently, we'd have gotten Aldon Smith & he would have been labled as "Wade's pick."


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The consensus advice O'Brien received from his trusted mentors and advisers was, "make sure you're in charge".
Being "in charge" is an illusion. Ask Gary. .He thought he was in charge until he decided to bench Case.
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Old 04-22-2014   #78
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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Or maybe Smith wasn't fired because of McNair having to pay 6 mil to buy out BOB's contract and didn't want to have to pay off the remaining yr of Kubiak's contract. Plus Smith's contract that doesn't run out until May 2017.

McNair made a BooBoo by extending them, (He wanted to extend Kubiak through the 2015 season also) and doesn't want to have to fully pay for his mistake. If Kubiak had accepted the longer extention he would probably still be the HC, regardless of whether the team quit on him last yr.

Lets hear all of the McNair/Smith love!!!!!!! 2-14 and still being employed says alot.
You're incredible. You try to spin McNair spending $6 mil to get exactly who he wants into taking a cheapshot swipe at him. You need to seek out a chapter of McNair Blamers Annonymous.

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Seems to be a bad link. I do remember Wade answering a question tongue in cheek about being promised a first round pick of his choice, and it was discussed here quite a bit but I don't think anyone took it seriously

until now
Yup. Subsequently there has also been information out about the Texans having a deal in place to move up and get Patrick Peterson. The whole Watt = Wade thing is overblown.
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Old 04-22-2014   #79
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Default Re: Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

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I remember that as well. I also remember Gary saying, "Rick gets them & I coach them." Rick can sign & draft whoever he wants, but it was up to Gary whether that person makes the 53, the active roster, the starting line-up, or finds a spot in the rotation.

Well, until McNair decided Case was going to start the remainder of the year.



did you watch the whole thing? What did you make of all the laughs after Wade said that? & he said it was in his contract that we would always draft a defensive player high in the draft.

Wade, as usual, was joking. He later, in that same video, flat out said, "We don't do that. We take the best player, offense or defense." He didn't say "From here on out." He didn't say, "starting now." He didn't say, "Except for the last two."



Normally I'm not a stickler for details, but you seem to genuinely, literally believe this. Rick was not the GM in Denver.


That could mean any number of things. There maybe several front office personnel who believe the position coaches shouldn't be involved at all.

Again, I ask you if the Texans had traded out of that spot that got them Duane Brown, & ended up having to draft someone else, who's call would that have been?

Then in 2011, we could have traded up to get Aldon Smith, but we didn't. That was clearly Rick Smith's decision. Had he decided differently, we'd have gotten Aldon Smith & he would have been labled as "Wade's pick."




Being "in charge" is an illusion. Ask Gary. .He thought he was in charge until he decided to bench Case.
You are without a doubt my absolute FAVORITE Houston Texans Kool Aid drinker. Sometime though I do wonder if your Kool Aid isn't electric or at a minimum spike with some mushrooms.
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Old 04-22-2014   #80
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You are without a doubt my absolute FAVORITE Houston Texans Kool Aid drinker. Sometime though I do wonder if your Kool Aid isn't electric or at a minimum spike with some mushrooms.
It's not Kool Aid drinking if you don't extrapolate an obvious joke to base your understanding of front office operations.

I think the power structure was screwed up with Gary Kubiak having far more influence on this organization than he should. But there is enough real evidence to support this without having to make stuff up.

I'm not overly enthused with Rick Smith's draft picks, or his FA acquisitions, but there's definitely a pattern & a profile, Sam Montgomery & Ed Reed being the outliers. It wouldn't bother me one bit to pin it on Rick & be done with it. But we've already scapegoated our HC & QB... I'd like to have some kind of continuity, to "know" that we're building something, that we're on a path, rather than throwing darts while in a drunken stupor.

However, I also have not lost sight of the fact that Charlie Casserly was not let go until after the 2006 draft... his best ever.
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