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Old 04-20-2014   #2461
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Well, that`s really the question here. What do you trust? Can you really take a QB #1 that doesn`t have elite arm strength, speed and mechanics? One that has a small frame? Gametape? Well guys that played good in college often fail with the pros.

What I think is you do is look at the factors that lead to QBs failing in the league. First the motivation needs to be there. You need to be able to live with pressure. You need to understand the game and be able to process a ton of information in short time so you can make quick decisions. And you need to get the ball to where it needs to be fast.

With Bridgewater I believe he excells in most of these areas. He may have a problem with putting enough zip on the balls and he does have a problem with long ball accuracy. The first one is crucial, you could live with the second one.

I believe in Bridgewater - but with his stock falling I believe we should go with bpa and maybe trade up to get one of the 3 QBs that is falling on draft day.
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Old 04-20-2014   #2462
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by LikeMike View Post

I believe in Bridgewater - but with his stock falling I believe we should go with bpa and maybe trade up to get one of the 3 QBs that is falling on draft day.
If I had a draft dream for 2014 it would be to take Clowney and then trade back into the first round and get the guy they wanted. In most cases the guy you want isn't there because someone else sees what you see in "your guy" and you are left with Geno Smith. Speaking of Geno Smith, the guy that didn't get much hype in last year's draft (E. J. Manuel) sure looks like the more promising QB.


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Old 04-20-2014   #2463
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
I do think Savage has a point about Bridgewater being not highly though of by NFL personnel guys. As the one anonymous GM stated, Bridgewater does not have the "elite arm, size, or mobility". Though Bridgewater is plenty mobile enough. And that's why guys like Freeman, Gabbert, Locker, etc. continue to be overdrafted. Because they "look" the part of what these NFL execs think a QB should look like. And these teams will continue to be beat by the Drew Brees, Russell Wilsons, Johnny Manziels, and Teddy Bridgewaters. Guys who may not look like NFL QBs. But know the game and can make plays.
On the one hand, we've got people saying that our best chance to find a franchise QB is in the first round, & that sometimes you've got to gamble on one.

Then on the other hand, we've got people saying we don't always need to take the prototypical guy.

If you look at the stats... something like 40% of your NFL starters come out of the first round, that tells me the prototypical guys are more likely to pan out. I'm sure if someone was willing to do the research, they'll find the guys with decent to weak arms, under 6'3", coming out of small schools, etc, etc... are more likely to be drafted after the first round & therefore less likely to succeed.

History has shown that the deck is stacked against guys like Bridgewater. Maybe he'll succeed, since he was calling the offense at Louisville. But chances are you can call the wrong play, or misread the coverage against UCF & still run your play successfully.
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Old 04-20-2014   #2464
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
On the one hand, we've got people saying that our best chance to find a franchise QB is in the first round, & that sometimes you've got to gamble on one.

Then on the other hand, we've got people saying we don't always need to take the prototypical guy.

If you look at the stats... something like 40% of your NFL starters come out of the first round, that tells me the prototypical guys are more likely to pan out. I'm sure if someone was willing to do the research, they'll find the guys with decent to weak arms, under 6'3", coming out of small schools, etc, etc... are more likely to be drafted after the first round & therefore less likely to succeed.

History has shown that the deck is stacked against guys like Bridgewater. Maybe he'll succeed, since he was calling the offense at Louisville. But chances are you can call the wrong play, or misread the coverage against UCF & still run your play successfully.
If you're in dire straits in a need for a QB and you pass on the 1st RD QBs, doesn't it become much harder to find a better QB in RD 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 & 7?

My 4 Concerns about Teddy Bridgewater

1. Arm strength, IMHO passes over 30+ yards have a tendency to become floaters.

2. Skinny - According to Greg Cosell who I have the highest respect, says TB played most of 2013 at 188 lbs.

3. Mobility

4. Reports from Pro Day, velocity less than expected coming out of TBs hand.

Side note to your, Running the Play Successfully, Teddy also played behind the #1 Defense in College.
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Old 04-20-2014   #2465
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

From 1980 to 2010:

1st round: 66 QBs selected. Only 8 didn't start at least 1 season. 10 started only 1 season. This group represent 94 total pro bowl berths.

2nd round: 31 QBs selected. 11 didn't start at least 1 season. 5 only started 1 season. They represent 31 pro bowl berths and include Bret Favre, Drew Brees, Randall Cunningham, Boomer Esiason.

3rd round: 36 QBs selected. 19 never started a season. 5 only started 1. Only 9 pro bowls in this group which includes Chris Chandler, Matt Schaub, Jay Schroeder, Neil O'Donnell, Jeff Hostetler, and Brian Griese.

4th round: 48 QBs selected. 34 never started a season. 4 only started 1. Only 6 pro bowls in this group which includes Rich Gannon, Steve Beuerlein, Aaron Brooks and David Garrard.

5th round: 32 QBs selected. 26 never started a season. 2 only started 1. Only 1 guy started more than 2 and that was Mark Brunell who also accounts for the 3 pro bowls of this group.

6th round: 60 QBs selected. 42 never started a season. 6 only started 1. But there were an amazing number of multi year starters in this group. There were 19 pro bowl seasons headed by (of course) Tom Brady but also including Matt Hasselbeck, Jeff Blake, Marc Bulger, Mark Rypien, Stan Humphries, Rodney Peete, Steve Bono, John Friesz and Derek Anderson.

7th round: 51 QBs selected. 46 never started a season. 3 only started 1. Matt Cassel and Gus Frerotte went to Pro Bowls and along with Ryan Fitzpatrick are the only multi-year starters.

8th round+: 97 QBs selected. Most of these guys of course, never saw anything. But there were some successful QBs in this group including Trent Green, Wade Wilson, Elvis Grbac, Brad Johnson, Doug Flutie, and Don Majkowski. 8 pro bowl berths.
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Old 04-20-2014   #2466
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
Does anyone know how to play the game?
Many of us have played the game at different levels, and for the sake of this thread some have even played the position. I would venture to guess that not many if any have played it at a professional level, but still the fundamental knowledge of the sport can be there. Having played the game does help one diagnose what they see when doing personal scouting by watching what a player looked like in past games. It also helps to not buy into inflated stats, and give the player a true eye test before making a decision on their abilities or lack thereof.
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Old 04-20-2014   #2467
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
From 1980 to 2010:

1st round: 66 QBs selected. Only 8 didn't start at least 1 season. 10 started only 1 season. This group represent 94 total pro bowl berths.

2nd round: 31 QBs selected. 11 didn't start at least 1 season. 5 only started 1 season. They represent 31 pro bowl berths and include Bret Favre, Drew Brees, Randall Cunningham, Boomer Esiason.

3rd round: 36 QBs selected. 19 never started a season. 5 only started 1. Only 9 pro bowls in this group which includes Chris Chandler, Matt Schaub, Jay Schroeder, Neil O'Donnell, Jeff Hostetler, and Brian Griese.

4th round: 48 QBs selected. 34 never started a season. 4 only started 1. Only 6 pro bowls in this group which includes Rich Gannon, Steve Beuerlein, Aaron Brooks and David Garrard.

5th round: 32 QBs selected. 26 never started a season. 2 only started 1. Only 1 guy started more than 2 and that was Mark Brunell who also accounts for the 3 pro bowls of this group.

6th round: 60 QBs selected. 42 never started a season. 6 only started 1. But there were an amazing number of multi year starters in this group. There were 19 pro bowl seasons headed by (of course) Tom Brady but also including Matt Hasselbeck, Jeff Blake, Marc Bulger, Mark Rypien, Stan Humphries, Rodney Peete, Steve Bono, John Friesz and Derek Anderson.

7th round: 51 QBs selected. 46 never started a season. 3 only started 1. Matt Cassel and Gus Frerotte went to Pro Bowls and along with Ryan Fitzpatrick are the only multi-year starters.

8th round+: 97 QBs selected. Most of these guys of course, never saw anything. But there were some successful QBs in this group including Trent Green, Wade Wilson, Elvis Grbac, Brad Johnson, Doug Flutie, and Don Majkowski. 8 pro bowl berths.
So what your saying is we need to draft a QB in the 1st or 6th round?
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Old 04-20-2014   #2468
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
From 1980 to 2010:

1st round: 66 QBs selected. Only 8 didn't start at least 1 season. 10 started only 1 season. This group represent 94 total pro bowl berths.

2nd round: 31 QBs selected. 11 didn't start at least 1 season. 5 only started 1 season. They represent 31 pro bowl berths and include Bret Favre, Drew Brees, Randall Cunningham, Boomer Esiason.

3rd round: 36 QBs selected. 19 never started a season. 5 only started 1. Only 9 pro bowls in this group which includes Chris Chandler, Matt Schaub, Jay Schroeder, Neil O'Donnell, Jeff Hostetler, and Brian Griese.

4th round: 48 QBs selected. 34 never started a season. 4 only started 1. Only 6 pro bowls in this group which includes Rich Gannon, Steve Beuerlein, Aaron Brooks and David Garrard.

5th round: 32 QBs selected. 26 never started a season. 2 only started 1. Only 1 guy started more than 2 and that was Mark Brunell who also accounts for the 3 pro bowls of this group.

6th round: 60 QBs selected. 42 never started a season. 6 only started 1. But there were an amazing number of multi year starters in this group. There were 19 pro bowl seasons headed by (of course) Tom Brady but also including Matt Hasselbeck, Jeff Blake, Marc Bulger, Mark Rypien, Stan Humphries, Rodney Peete, Steve Bono, John Friesz and Derek Anderson.

7th round: 51 QBs selected. 46 never started a season. 3 only started 1. Matt Cassel and Gus Frerotte went to Pro Bowls and along with Ryan Fitzpatrick are the only multi-year starters.

8th round+: 97 QBs selected. Most of these guys of course, never saw anything. But there were some successful QBs in this group including Trent Green, Wade Wilson, Elvis Grbac, Brad Johnson, Doug Flutie, and Don Majkowski. 8 pro bowl berths.
Repped

Thanks for the in depth research.
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Old 04-20-2014   #2469
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
So what your saying is we need to draft a QB in the 1st or 6th round?
With our QB situation, I think we need to draft one in both and cross our fingers.
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Old 04-21-2014   #2470
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
I am not a Teddy Bridgewater hater. Although I do get a lot of abuse for my opinions from many of Teddy's fans.
Well if you're not a hater you sure don't hide it very well.

Every article that has a failed GM or 75 year old scout that can't see past 6'5 230 criticizing TB, you are the first to throw down here.

I kind of feel that you just come in here with your ladle just to stir the pot, but then you throw your arms in the air like it wasn't you after you're called on it.

Be real with yourself, your guy is Bortles and there is nothing wrong with that. You do however, hate everyone that opposes him as a potential pick and you will attempt to sabotage everyone else to build your guy up. Your guy is good, but not good enough so his game tape speaks for itself. That's a red flag when you should know you don't have the winner you believe... when you have to attack others to build your guy up.

I learned something in life a while back... never punch down. If you're better than someone and you know it, you don't go out of your way to fight them. You walk away in a shrouded arrogance letting them know they never had a chance.
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Old 04-21-2014   #2471
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by TexansFTW View Post
Well if you're not a hater you sure don't hide it very well.
Just because I have 4 real concerns about Teddy doesn't make me a hater. No doubt having 4 concerns does make me a hater in the eyes of the Teddybots. It's a clear case of let's shoot the messenger. It's just possible that I might be right as Teddy does appear to be sliding, possibly to the 2nd RD. Kind of like Geno Smith last year. Maybe someone agrees with me?

I don't attack others for their negative views of Bortles. I have on occasion presented a counter point to their argument but attack? No! Again, I understand how the Teddybots could think of it as an attack. It's another case of, Let's shoot the messenger, AGAIN!

FYI - I'm not attacking you. I'm engaging you in an entertaining debate.
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Old 04-21-2014   #2472
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

Teddy is falling on draft boards and no real reason why.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-dra...ewater-falling
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Old 04-21-2014   #2473
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
If you're in dire straits in a need for a QB and you pass on the 1st RD QBs, doesn't it become much harder to find a better QB in RD 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 & 7?

My 4 Concerns about Teddy Bridgewater

1. Arm strength, IMHO passes over 30+ yards have a tendency to become floaters.

2. Skinny - According to Greg Cosell who I have the highest respect, says TB played most of 2013 at 188 lbs.

3. Mobility

4. Reports from Pro Day, velocity less than expected coming out of TBs hand.

Side note to your, Running the Play Successfully, Teddy also played behind the #1 Defense in College.
The problem is only one of your concerns are actually legit. And even that is not as big a deal people are making it out to be.

1. His zip is not elite, but he has enough mustard to throw in tight windows and down field.

2. His playing weight was low because he was sick or had some procedure done and lost weight. I don't think he will play as a rookie bigger than 205-210, but a full off-season in the nfl and I could see him at 215-220

3. He is plenty mobile. A 4.78 is no statue. He is not an RG3 burner, but has enough speed to make guys pay for turning their backs to him.

4. His pro day was good, but not great. His velocity was above average, but we've already discussed that this is his ONLY real legit concern and its being completely overblown. His accuracy at his pro day was great, but not perfect, which apparently needed to be for him. Every other pro day in the history of pro days can include a few off passes, but not Teddys.

I still think TB is worth the first overall pick. I hope we take him.
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Old 04-21-2014   #2474
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by amazing80 View Post
the problem is only one of your concerns are actually legit. And even that is not as big a deal people are making it out to be.

1. His zip is not elite, but he has enough mustard to throw in tight windows and down field. not according to some standing on the sideline at his pro day, (mayock & others), the velocity when the ball came out of TBs hand was not what they had hoped to see. They say you can NOT see or judge velocity (zip) from watching tape or sitting in the stands. I believe this. Anyone who has ever watched a game or practice from the sidelines knows that game is much faster, they hit much harder, the intensity is greater than anything you see from the stands or watching tv. If you're sitting field level behind the catcher, that 92 MPH fastball is a heck of a lot faster than the 92 MPH fastball you see on TV.

2. His playing weight was low because he was sick or had some procedure done and lost weight. I don't think he will play as a rookie bigger than 205-210, but a full off-season in the nfl and i could see him at 215-220 greg cosell says tb played most of 2013 at 188, he lost 6 lbs in the week between the combine and his pro day. Your assumptions do not alleviate my concerns.

3. He is plenty mobile. A 4.78 is no statue. He is not an rg3 burner, but has enough speed to make guys pay for turning their backs to him. you just don't see that in his game films

4. His pro day was good, but not great. His velocity was above average, but we've already discussed that this is his only real legit concern and its being completely overblown. His accuracy at his pro day was great, but not perfect, which apparently needed to be for him. Every other pro day in the history of pro days can include a few off passes, but not teddys.you're right his accuracy and completions were not that much of a problem. What many were most concerned with was lack of velocity. Many were disappointed. It must have been noticeable for teddy to have blamed it on the gloves.

i still think tb is worth the first overall pick. I hope we take him.
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Old 04-21-2014   #2475
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
Many of us have played the game at different levels, and for the sake of this thread some have even played the position. I would venture to guess that not many if any have played it at a professional level, but still the fundamental knowledge of the sport can be there. Having played the game does help one diagnose what they see when doing personal scouting by watching what a player looked like in past games. It also helps to not buy into inflated stats, and give the player a true eye test before making a decision on their abilities or lack thereof.
He's talking about the draft game and the misinformation associated with the build up to the draft.
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Old 04-21-2014   #2476
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

See, we can debate players as long as we're being honest. When texian says his concerns are mobiliy,when tb has the best pocket pressence and poise of any of the qbs,then we're not being honest. Yet we know he's a bortles guy and that's cool,but he won't name 2 things he doesn't like. He won't bring up the funbles,the lack of elite arm talent, or the accuracy/decision making when describing bortles. The best thing people say about bortles is he's prototypical in size. Texian always brings up the combacks,but he omits the ints or fumbles that led to the comebacks. Its not like he had manziels defense either. Teddy didn't have storm johnson neither. Just be honest.
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Old 04-21-2014   #2477
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Teddy didn't have storm johnson neither. Just be honest.
Clearly you've not watched much Bortles/UCF tape. If you had then you would know that Storm Johnson FUMBLES probably more than any RB in this draft. Other things you don't know about Storm, he transfered from 2A Buford High School to Lawrenceville High School because he wasn't going to be the #1 RB. He was still recruited by and signed with Miami. He transferred from Miami to UCF because, you guessed it, he wan't going to be the #1 RB at Miami. Oh, and his pass pro is severely lacking. It is my recommendation that the Texans pass on Storm Johnson. I can't be any more honest than that.

Pocket presence and poise have little to do with Mobility. It's when the pocket collapses and the poise breaks down when Mobility is important and I stand by comments, you don't see a lot of that in Teddy's game tapes.

and then there is this.... http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...postcount=1155

and sincerely and most honestly I most likely had more positive comments about Johnny Manziel than any of the Teddybots. Next to Bortles JFF would be my #2 QB pick.
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Old 04-21-2014   #2478
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Clearly you've not watched much Bortles/UCF tape. If you had then you would know that Storm Johnson FUMBLES probably more than any RB in this draft. Other things you don't know about Storm, he transfered from 2A Buford High School to Lawrenceville High School because he wasn't going to be the #1 RB. He was still recruited by and signed with Miami. He transferred from Miami to UCF because, you guessed it, he wan't going to be the #1 RB at Miami. Oh, and his pass pro is severely lacking. It is my recommendation that the Texans pass on Storm Johnson. I can't be any more honest than that.

Pocket presence and poise have little to do with Mobility. It's when the pocket collapses and the poise breaks down when Mobility is important and I stand by comments, you don't see a lot of that in Teddy's game tapes.

and then there is this.... http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...postcount=1155

and sincerely and most honestly I most likely had more positive comments about Johnny Manziel than any of the Teddybots. Next to Bortles JFF would be my #2 QB pick.
What do storm johnson recruitment have to do with his production? Pocket,presence,poise,and mobility is tied in. Favre had great mobility even though he didn't run. Navigating the pocket,feeling,climbing,sliding in the pocket is mobility. That's why there is a kazam between manning and schaub in the posket. Once schaub set his feet,his lack of mobilty in the pocket made him a statue under pressure. Maybe I'm giving you too much credt to understand mobility doesn't mean running around.
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Old 04-21-2014   #2479
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
What do storm johnson recruitment have to do with his production?
Try looking at this way. If Storm couldn't be the #1 RB in high school and he couldn't be the #1 RB at the U of Miami what makes you think he can be a #1 RB in the NFL? In addition he fumbles a lot and his pass pro sucks. And one of the main reasons UCF was often playing from behind was directly attributable to the number of Storm Johnson FUMBLES.

and I'm still waiting for your response to: and then there is this.... http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...postcount=1155
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Old 04-22-2014   #2480
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Default Re: Teddy Bridgewater

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Originally Posted by Texian View Post
Try looking at this way. If Storm couldn't be the #1 RB in high school and he couldn't be the #1 RB at the U of Miami what makes you think he can be a #1 RB in the NFL? In addition he fumbles a lot and his pass pro sucks. And one of the main reasons UCF was often playing from behind was directly attributable to the number of Storm Johnson FUMBLES.

and I'm still waiting for your response to: and then there is this.... http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...postcount=1155
So, who was the #rb at ucf? So when all those guys like forte,jennings,and choice transferred because they didn't want to sit behind peterson,what did that mean? You make 0 sense when you comment on storm johnson. I guess he didn't run for almost 1200 yds at 5 per clip and 17 tds right? I'm also assuming I didn't see the 2 picks bortles threw against that bad baylor defense right? Nor did I see the 3 picks vs the gamecocks the yr prior,right? Nah, it was storm johnson fault?
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